Brazil pick Gripen after 12 year Marathon selection process

[Adar]

Source

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BrasÃ*lia (AFP) - Swedish aerospace maker Saab won a $5 billion contract to equip the Brazilian air force with 36 new fighter jets, Defense Minister Celso Amorim announced Wednesday.
Saab's Gripen, a state-of-the-art multi-role fighter jet, beat its two rivals -- the Rafale, made by France's Dassault company, and US aviation giant Boeing's F/A-18 fighter -- for the lucrative contract.
"After analyzing all the facts, President Dilma Rousseff directed me to inform that the winner of the contract for the acquisition of the 36 fighter jets for the Brazilian Air Force is the Swedish Gripen NG," Amorim told a press conference.
The announcement came after more than 10 years of discussions and repeated delays due to budgetary constraints.
The Gripen, which was said to be the cheapest of the three aircraft, is capable of performing an extensive range of air-to-air, air-to-surface and reconnaissance missions.
It is in use in the air forces of Britain, South Africa, the Czech Republic, Thailand and Hungary.
The Brazilian air force insisted it needed the new fighter aircraft to maintain an adequate air defense as it is to retire its 12 Mirage jets in late December.
Brazil bought the refurbished Mirage 2000 C/Bs from France in 2005 for $80 million to fly for five years.

It took a long time and there where many twists and turns but now it looks like Brazil finally have made it's decision. Brazils previous president Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva was a strong supporter of the French Rafale as Sarkozy was able to offer a strong package of both a modern jet fighter and diplomatic support from a member of the UN security council. But both the industry and military were firmly against the deal as the industry preferred the Swedish technology transfer while the military wanted a modern jet fighter that was also affordable enough to operate. So despite an announcement by da Silva the deal stalled in 2009 and was expected to be delayed even as far as 2015.

In 2013 American news sources reported that the F/A-18 was the new lead contender as the current president Dilma Rousseff had greatly appreciated a visit from Joe Biden in the spring. But in the last week there have been rumors first of Rafale falling out of the competition and today Brazil announced that they would procure Gripen fighters.

[Treize]

Great news for the Little Viking.

About the cost... Some sources say $6 billion, other sources say $4.5.
So what are they going to pay for it and what is included as the price seems very high.

Also, Adar, Sweden wants to upgrade 60 C's to E standard. Is Sweden not going to buy new built units?

[Adar]

Great news for the Little Viking.

About the cost... Some sources say $6 billion, other sources say $4.5.
So what are they going to pay for it and what is included as the price seems very high.

Also, Adar, Sweden wants to upgrade 60 C's to E standard. Is Sweden not going to buy new built units?

I really cannot make any predictions on what the Swedish government will force the Swedish military to do. It's gone so far that Finnish, Norwegian and Danish politicans are actively criticizing the right wing government for promising things they cannot provide. The Swedish military is essentially used to prove that military equipment work and as a budget regulator.

Next year I'll probably leave the military as well due to this.

The Chinese could always act up in the South China Sea. Who USN gonna call?

Thailand got Gripen (but not link-16 as they went for the Swedish solution that is faster but not NATO-compatible) and Malaysia may get it as well... .

[Treize]

I really cannot make any predictions on what the Swedish government will force the Swedish military to do. It's gone so far that Finnish, Norwegian and Danish politicans are actively criticizing the right wing government for promising things they cannot provide. The Swedish military is essentially used to prove that military equipment work and as a budget regulator.

Next year I'll probably leave the military as well due to this.

It is exactly the same here. The government uses the military to prop up the local shipbuilding industry by buying ships (but because they are unwilling to spend the money they buy useless OPV's), to lick the arse of 'Murciah by spending over 6 billion on a handful of F-35A's and such. But unlike Sweden our government thinks it matters in this world and is willing to send soldiers to wherever the US commands us to.

The air force is the worst as it is run by americanophile idiots who are willing to spend our limited budget on F-35A's and MQ-9's. Both of which are too expensive to operate, unneccesary and purchased in inadequate numbers (because of sky-high costs ofcourse). And if half the pilots become redundant because of this path they don't even care, even the pilots themselves get a boner when you utter the letters J-S-F.

Thailand got Gripen (but not link-16 as they went for the Swedish solution that is faster but not NATO-compatible) and Malaysia may get it as well... .

Smart choice, but I understand the NG with Link 16 retains a second datalink for communication between Gripens only.

[Tureuki]

Turkey is also making plans for home built jets and I heard there was some partnership with Saab, I guess they're one the few options for countries with such needs.

[Pielstick]

Good news for Saab and the Swedish AF. Looking forward to seeing the Gripen E in service, it should be a pretty mean little fighter.

With this news it also looks like Super Hornet production will wind down in 2015 if no further orders are forthcoming.

[Condottiere 40K]

The Chinese could always act up in the South China Sea. Who USN gonna call?

[Pielstick]

It will also be very interesting to see if this leads on to a Brazilian order for Sea Gripen....

[Ciciro]

Swedes making fighter jets? What is this world coming to...

[YukonTrooper]

Via Reuters:

Until earlier this year, Boeing's F/A-18 Super Hornet had been considered the front runner. But revelations of spying by the U.S. National Security Agency in Brazil, including personal communication by Rousseff, led Brazil to believe it could not trust a U.S. company.

"The NSA problem ruined it for the Americans," a Brazilian government source said on condition of anonymity.

A U.S. source close to the negotiations said that whatever intelligence the spying had delivered for the American government was unlikely to outweigh the commercial cost of the revelations.

"Was that worth 4 billion dollars?" the source asked.

Oops. Kinda had the opposite effect, didn't it?

[Adar]

Via Reuters:

Until earlier this year, Boeing's F/A-18 Super Hornet had been considered the front runner. But revelations of spying by the U.S. National Security Agency in Brazil, including personal communication by Rousseff, led Brazil to believe it could not trust a U.S. company.

"The NSA problem ruined it for the Americans," a Brazilian government source said on condition of anonymity.

A U.S. source close to the negotiations said that whatever intelligence the spying had delivered for the American government was unlikely to outweigh the commercial cost of the revelations.

"Was that worth 4 billion dollars?" the source asked.

Oops. Kinda had the opposite effect, didn't it?

I don't think the F/A-18 was conisdered a front runner until after the Biden visit where he apparently charmed the pants off Rousseff. So Boeing had a pretty short run in the process between Hollande coming to power in France up until NSA ruined their reputation.

[mrmouth]

Everyone's got to have their toys.

[Condottiere 40K]

Politics trump whatever criteria the Ministry of Defense come up with for successful candidates.

I would have thought the Rafale the more likely alternative.

I also think you need the Indians to be onboard to make developing the navalized variant of the Gripen viable.

[Pielstick]

If you look at the Brazilian Air Force they operate a pretty eclectic mix of stuff and quite obviously don't want to be too dependent on one foreign source. I think the only US combat jet they fly is the F-5.

I heard that the NSA scandal was what tipped the balance away from the Americans, I don't think it was as straightforward as that. Gripen was the cheapest on offer, and we don't know exactly what technology transfer Boeing were offering with the Super Hornet. Rafale was just too expensive.

[Condottiere 40K]

Ideally, Saab figures out how to STOVLize their next fighter.

[Adar]

Ideally, Saab figures out how to STOVLize their next fighter.

No, it's just too costly in comparison to what you gain from it.

Swedish fighters are built to be efficient and STOVL just doesn't have enough applications to actually be worth it. Front line deployment of jet fighters just isn't a feasible option anymore.

[Condottiere 40K]

I was thinking more in terms of all those lonely lonely baby flattops longing for the caress of a jet fighter flaming up their untouched decks, rather than making do with choppers whose only rhythm is up and down.

[Treize]

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[Treize]

Adar, do you know if the Brazilians will aquire two-seaters?

Sweden wants to convert 60 C's to E's but I guess they will also retain some two seaters for training purposes? Will they upgrade to F later or just keep the D's?

Every since Lockheed Martin claimed they can replace two seaters with simulators it seems the two seaters became less fashionable.
But two seaters are also superior in soms operational roles too.

I was thinking more in terms of all those lonely lonely baby flattops longing for the caress of a jet fighter flaming up their untouched decks, rather than making do with choppers whose only rhythm is up and down.

Insider secret: STOVL = trouble and not worthwhile.

[Adar]

Adar, do you know if the Brazilians will aquire two-seaters?

Sweden wants to convert 60 C's to E's but I guess they will also retain some two seaters for training purposes? Will they upgrade to F later or just keep the D's?

Every since Lockheed Martin claimed they can replace two seaters with simulators it seems the two seaters became less fashionable.
But two seaters are also superior in soms operational roles too.

The rumors I've heard is that Brazil is interested in them.

Sweden decided to not get them as Switzerland didn't need them (they use the F/A-18 and retraining is fast) and the defense is mostly used for exports nowadays...

Only most of the time - if you are like the US and have a bunch of small quasi CVs floating around the STVOL/VSTOL is a bit flexability to have iv your big CVs turn out to be vunrable to all the supposed new missiles.

Range and carriage capacity is so limited in vertical take off and landing that it really isn't worth it. Having proper CV:s and aerial refueling is most likely better.