[REL] Historically plausible development minimod (in hibernation now)

[yukishiro1]

Sorry, I should have said - I have the beta already. I tried your 8 version attached to next comment anyway but still the same - hangs on startup.

I then did some testing, the Seleucid version and Generic version work fine so it does seem like Epirus version is bugged, havent tried Carthage yet. I havent got time to try all the others now but I will over next couple of days if you can't figure it out. If there is anything in particular you want me to try then let me know.

For information I uninstalled the 4 other mods I was using (all GFX related so shouldnt matter anyway) leaving just DEI and your mod to ensure nothing weird.

The mod is awesome and I am not nagging for a fix, especially given it is Xmas I am sure it will get figured out in time. Thanks

Odd. The only change between epirus and the others (or carthage) should be the epirus and carthage versions have a few faction attributes removed.

I tried re-uploading the versions that work for me to steam again. Let me know if that fixes it or not.

[Master Necromancer]

Just one critique (The sub-mod is awesome!!! ) Rome should be more aggressive and expansionist like, they tend to keep in Italy and maybe one to four settlements in its neighbourhood.

[yukishiro1]

Yeah, that has to do with AI behavior, and this mod doesn't really directly address that. Rome does seem to expand more in this mod than in vanilla, but not dramatically so. In my experience, it does slowly expand into Greece, Corsica & Sardinia, Africa if it can beat Carthage, and Illyria reliably. Occasionally I have seen it move up north into Raetia too. I have yet to see it move over and take Spain or move into Gaul proper. It's annoying, but I'm not sure what I can do about it.

It's also worth remembering that at this period in time Rome, although powerful, was not a clear world-beater yet. It wasn't until about 200BC that it emerged as the most powerful state in the med. That's a long way into a 4TPY campaign when the game starts in 272. If you compare where Rome tends to end up in this sub-mod after 200ish turns to where it was historically, the big difference is it doesn't have spain and it has more of greece than it should...but otherwise it isn't too far off.

[Master Necromancer]

Yeah, that has to do with AI behavior, and this mod doesn't really directly address that. Rome does seem to expand more in this mod than in vanilla, but not dramatically so. In my experience, it does slowly expand into Greece, Corsica & Sardinia, Africa if it can beat Carthage, and Illyria reliably. Occasionally I have seen it move up north into Raetia too. I have yet to see it move over and take Spain or move into Gaul proper. It's annoying, but I'm not sure what I can do about it.

It's also worth remembering that at this period in time Rome, although powerful, was not a clear world-beater yet. It wasn't until about 200BC that it emerged as the most powerful state in the med. That's a long way into a 4TPY campaign when the game starts in 272. If you compare where Rome tends to end up in this sub-mod after 200ish turns to where it was historically, the big difference is it doesn't have spain and it has more of greece than it should...but otherwise it isn't too far off.

I see, just haven't taken into account the 4TpY factor. Very cool.

[Hewitt212]

Sorry if this has been asked, but would this mod work in co-op campaign at all?

[yukishiro1]

I have no idea, honestly. I can't think why it wouldn't. But I've never tried, so I can't guarantee anything. One difficulty is that depending on the pair of factions chosen, the balance could be off. I can't make 50 different versions for all the combinations, so if both of you want to play one of the factions that has its own version, you'd have to pick one version to use, and the other faction will end up more/less powerful than it ought to be because of it.

[zala]

Is it worth me starting up a new campaign with this submod or should I hold off until you've refined things for 8.1?

[yukishiro1]

Is it worth me starting up a new campaign with this submod or should I hold off until you've refined things for 8.1?

It's up to you, but right now there are enough problems to work out with 8.1 that I can't guarantee it's going to produce a flawless experience.

[zala]

It's up to you, but right now there are enough problems to work out with 8.1 that I can't guarantee it's going to produce a flawless experience.

it, I've been following your progress for a while I think I might just dive into a Rome campaign using this, from what I understand the only really 'odd' thing I need to worry about is Athens going on a rampage correct?

[yukishiro1]

I think I am going to revert some of the peace changes. Not the ones that make peace easier per se, but the positive war events changes. Although they work well in some cases, in some cases - notably Carthage - they seem to result in Carthage sending all its armies off to spain instead of defending its home provines, because it becomes positive with rome.

[yukishiro1]

Athens shouldn't go on a rampage any more. And it any case this sub-mod will stop that from happening more than would happen without it.

In patch 8.1 the problems have more to do with some of the major factions strangely deciding to sail all their armies off across the ocean to attack far-away factions. But I think that will mostly happen with or without the mod. I am still testing to see if Carthage will stop doing that if I remove the positive war events, but it didn't happen in patch 8, so I think it's probably just their new AI "improvements" not working as intended.

[yukishiro1]

Yeah, I figure what they did is mess with the parameters that control how the CAI prioritizes who to attack to make it more "aggressive," the upside of which is that it's more likely to go on a frolic and detour attacking some random faction halfway across the map rather than just defend what it has from the enemies nearby.

[carbide]

Yeah, I figure what they did is mess with the parameters that control how the CAI prioritizes who to attack to make it more "aggressive," the upside of which is that it's more likely to go on a frolic and detour attacking some random faction halfway across the map rather than just defend what it has from the enemies nearby.

People were complaining about the aggressiveness of the CAI and that seems to be their fix for it. Allow your homeland to be defeated while you release anger sending everything towards others far away (expanding).

[yukishiro1]

I am going to revert the changes that required an update for path 8.1 for the moment, because patch 8.1 AI is a bit of a disaster. This way people can play on patch 8 or 8.1 as they choose. By taking out the positive events, I remove the need to do the changes that make the mod compatible with only 8 OR 8.1. Now it will work for both, and people can choose whichever they prefer. I'll put the new versions up shortly.

The new peace system is still there, you just won't see the positive war event numbers any more. I'm not convinced they did a whole lot anyhow; peace decisions don't seem to take into account standing.

[kyler721]

This mod is awesome. I had been at war with Carthage for over 30 years and they would never sue for peace. I had taken all of Sicily and the Islands East of Rome from Carthage and still no peace (trying to simulate 1st and 2nd punic wars). But as soon as I used this mod and loaded up the game first thing Carthage did was sue for peace. Awesome mod! Keep it up!

[crackerjack1348]

The balance on this is just about perfect yuki, I really like that the ai declares war for a few years and then sues for peace amongst itself. One thing I might suggest is upping the value of a peace agreement so that the ai doesn't just continually declare war and peace every other turn. I'm still getting ai factions declaring war one turn and peace the next, but it's not as often, and I dont think it's a big problem.

Great idea on the big war negative events and quick decline, I hadn't thought of that.

Overall, I'd say this is about as good as it can get right now. I'm using 8.1 and have tinkered with your files a little bit, but nothing much. I didn't like the positive war values either, it just didn't seem to work quite right.

[yukishiro1]

Yeah, the AI making peace then declaring war the next turn is an issue with me changing the peace values but not the war ones. I could change the war ones too, but I obviously have to be careful with that or else it won't declare war often enough. It's something I will tackle later, because it feels like an annoyance but not really a huge issue. I am still having trouble getting Carthage to not abandon Africa in 8.1 to go on a frolic and detour to andalusia and portugal instead. Right now that feels like the biggest issue with the mod. Macedon also loves to go attack Egypt, but luckily seems to have less luck than it used to now that I gave it a moderate nerf. It will sometimes take a region or two but Egypt seems to push it back pretty often. Unlike poor Carthage which just can't seem to get in its head the idea of leaving an army in Africa when it goes off to vacation on the portoguese beaches.

[crackerjack1348]

No, I mean under deal_events_values, increasing the positive effect a peace treaty has on relations. Vanilla is 10 and I'm pretty sure you left it alone. I upped it to 50-60 range, so that factions are neutral or slightly positive when they sign peace.

Are you using a startpos that has carthage with nova carthago's territory? Because I'm just using the resources start pos with no changes in territory. My carthage has a small army in Africa most of the time, but I've also changed the cai_task_management tables to increase the ai's willingness to defend the capital, and defend it's regions in general.

[yukishiro1]

I run everything with DeI, so it uses the DeI carthage which includes libya and nova carthago.

I didn't know you could increase the ai's willingness to defend the capital in particular. I will look into those tables. Seems like it could be a good solution.

Tuning up the peace event value is a good idea I hadn't thought of. I didn't want to change the treaty value because that is permanent, but the temporary boost might be good, and will help compensate for the loss of the positive war events.

[Dresden]

I love this idea of factions willing to declare peace, I am trying to get the balance right myself.

As far as the defense task managers, I had an issue when I raised those too high where it would make the AI very passive. If you can get it balanced right, though, then it could be a good idea.