[REL] Historically plausible development minimod (in hibernation now)

[Black9]

Can you make your changes available for download? This looks fantastic.

[yukishiro1]

Can you make your changes available for download? This looks fantastic.

Is that link not working? I am a noob when it comes to file hosting, just picked out a random site that popped up on google.

If it does work, put it in the data folder and then use the mod manager available for download on this site to load it up above DeI and it should work fine. With patch 7, at least.

[Black9]

Is that link not working? I am a noob when it comes to file hosting, just picked out a random site that popped up on google.

If it does work, put it in the data folder and then use the mod manager available for download on this site to load it up above DeI and it should work fine. With patch 7, at least.

I'm a noob. I didn't see the link. Disregard!

[snaglecratch]

Is that link not working? I am a noob when it comes to file hosting, just picked out a random site that popped up on google.

If it does work, put it in the data folder and then use the mod manager available for download on this site to load it up above DeI and it should work fine. With patch 7, at least.

If you could provide a ZIP file with the .pack - it would help many around the world who do not use steam for their modification management. Thank you!

[yukishiro1]

Sparta doesn't start allied with Egypt anyhow. That happened somewhere down the line, probably in the 250s if memory serves.

I have been back and forth with Dresden in PMs about maybe removing the ability of Libya to be resurrected in DeI, since it doesn't even exist to begin with. That would solve the specific problem of Libya taking Carthage's lands as a military ally, because Libya wouldn't exist any more.

[stupar123]

I'll be sure to use your gret minimod

[yukishiro1]

P.S. If and when people start using this mod in their own games, please do give feedback on this thread about your results. I've run 5-6 sims with it, and they seem to turn out pretty well in general, but the sample size is obviously much too low to conclusively say it works reliably. If you run into things happening that don't seem right, report it here and I'll take a look at it and see if I think any change can be made to help avoid the problem. Keep in mind, though, that anything you do as the player will impact the balance of power, so I am primarily interested in ahistorical results that seem to occur even without much influence from the player.

For example, if you play as Pergamon and rebel against the Seleucids early on and take most of Asia minor for yourself, destroying many Seleucid armies in the process, that is probably going to hasten the death of the Seleucid Empire and there's not much I can do really to stop that from happening. But if you play as the Averni and reach rome after 100 turns only to find an empire of the Veneti where Rome should be, that's the sort of thing I'd like to hear about.

[yukishiro1]

No, it's sorta my fault for flooding the initial post with text before providing the link. I'll edit it to be more obvious.

[Yarkis de Bodemloze]

I just want to show that some of these changes can be achieved very flexible without having to create submods and such by scripting. Adding money is rather easy. Not shure if you can subtract money, but I can test it.

Here are two script functions that might be helpfull for manipulating the diplomatic behaviour of certain factions:

scripting.game_interface:cai_strategic_stance_manager_promote_specified_stance_towards_target_faction("pro_greek_cities", "pro_rome", "CAI_STRATEGIC_STANCE_BEST_FRIENDS")
scripting.game_interface:force_diplomacy("pro_gaul", "pro_rome", "war", true, true);

Also, the functionality to spawn whole armies is still in Rome 2:

scripting.game_interface:create_force("pro_rome", "Rom_Principes_Four,Rom_Principes_Four", "pro_campania_cilento", navy_x, navy_y, "luc_navy", true)

That means it is possible to give the AI extra armies and navies at any point in the game (preferably at the start).

[yukishiro1]

A sub-mod certainly isn't needed to add money, make the agent changes, or do the generic recruitment changes. As mentioned above, several of the changes I make could be included in DeI itself if the creators want to. That's up to them, obviously. There are tradeoffs involved in all my changes and they will have to evaluate which ones (if any) they want to integrate into the main mod and which can be kept as a submod for only those users who want to try them.

I am a really poor modder, and I don't think I have the competence to get involved with AI scripting. But I am more than happy for anyone else to tinker around with what I've done so far and see if it can be improved. In general, I don't want to get to the point of mandating outcomes, however - so I am leary of scripts that do more than put a thumb on the scales, so to speak. I want to retain a system where unexpected things can happen - I just don't want them to happen so often, or in such ahistorical ways.

But if using scripts ends up being a better way to do that than handicapping, that would be great from my point of view. I'm just probably not the one to do it.

[Yarkis de Bodemloze]

Well, your moding skills can't be so poor, otherwise you couldn't do that mod. I am not a programmer either, but that kind of scripting is actually not very complicated, once you know the basic functions. If you or the DEI people are interested, I can help with implementing that stuff (already did that in my TROM3 mod for S2). These are the most relevant functions available:

- add money one time or every turn (subtracting doesn't work)
- change diplomatic stances between factions
- change the CAI assessment towards a faction
- spawn new armies and navies
- enable or disable the recuitment of certain units

All that stuff can be randomized, so each game can be different. There is more exotic stuff available like making an army attack a specific target and let it win automatically.

[yukishiro1]

@Ivan

I'm sure that could be done, but it doesn't really address the particular problem I've noticed. Liberate is only an option if the faction is eliminated. In all these cases, the faction wasn't eliminated - it just lost some territory. When you capture a settlement that used to belong to a different faction but that faction is still alive, you don't have the option of liberating.

I.e if Carthage is still alive as a faction but loses the city of Carthage and an ally takes it back, the ally can't liberate. It would work if Carthage had been totally eliminated before the city of Carthage is recovered, but that typically doesn't happen.

What would really work well is if there were a way to gift territories in this game like there was in TW games up to Shogun 2. Then you could script the AI to always give back territories that used to belong to allies. But there isn't such a function in Rome 2. Ownership is extremely complicated to change, involving changes to a ridiculous amount of values. I guess it MIGHT be possible to script something that would cause ownership to revert to the old faction any times a military ally of it takes back territory that used to belong to the faction, but a script of that complexity is well and truly beyond my abilities. And from what I understand about how changing ownership works, you'd have to create a separate entry for every single province you wanted to script that for, so it'd be an enormous amount of work even if it were possible.

[Ivan_Moscavich]

@Ivan

I'm sure that could be done, but it doesn't really address the particular problem I've noticed. Liberate is only an option if the faction is eliminated. In all these cases, the faction wasn't eliminated - it just lost some territory. When you capture a settlement that used to belong to a different faction but that faction is still alive, you don't have the option of liberating.

I.e if Carthage is still alive as a faction but loses the city of Carthage and an ally takes it back, the ally can't liberate. It would work if Carthage had been totally eliminated before the city of Carthage is recovered, but that typically doesn't happen.

What would really work well is if there were a way to gift territories in this game like there was in TW games up to Shogun 2. Then you could script the AI to always give back territories that used to belong to allies. But there isn't such a function in Rome 2. Ownership is extremely complicated to change, involving changes to a ridiculous amount of values. I guess it MIGHT be possible to script something that would cause ownership to revert to the old faction any times a military ally of it takes back territory that used to belong to the faction, but a script of that complexity is well and truly beyond my abilities. And from what I understand about how changing ownership works, you'd have to create a separate entry for every single province you wanted to script that for, so it'd be an enormous amount of work even if it were possible.

I guess that slipped my mind, I was able to liberate some Carthagininian territory as rome when it was still alive, but I remember that it resurrected Nova Carthago (since they were technically destroyed, having not existed from the start anymore). Perhaps it's possible to change the flags on liberate itself?

[lesterthenerd]

will this work fine with del 0.6 and patch 8.1?

[yukishiro1]

I added a note to the original post. I am running a sim right now, and it's working fine so far. However, some of the changes affected AI behavior, so it's possible that the values may need to be changed to produce the same effects they were producing in patch 7.

It definitely "works" with patch 8.1, though, and DEI .6. And I very much doubt that any of the changes were big enough that it would be WORSE to use this mod compared to using nothing. It just may not be quite as well optimized for patch 8 yet as it was for patch 7.

If you do end up trying it, please post your impressions here, especially if you see anything that seems "wrong."

[lesterthenerd]

ok what campaign difficulty should we try it on?

[yukishiro1]

Designed to be played on normal. You can try it on any difficulty, but if you set it higher than normal it may effect the AI balance to some small degree in ways I can't really anticipate. I don't think it'd make a big difference though. I would set it on whatever difficulty you want to play anyway.

[lesterthenerd]

alright. btw i think there might be a bug as rome. i just stareted a hard campaign and dont have any recruitment points even though i have 3 regions in italia. its 1 recruitment point per region right?

[yukishiro1]

I'll check it out, but that sounds like the sort of problem that would occur with not loading the minimod above dei in the priority chain using mod manager. Gimmie 5 minutes to check.

edit: Fired it up myself, and I'm getting the right number of slots. Although I should have included in the change log that Rome gets 2 per major city, not 1 like all the other factions. I found this helped Rome's expansion.

So at the start of the game you ought to get 3 recruitment slots in Italia. If you have three regions in Italia (assuming one of them is Rome!), it ought to give you 4 recruitment slots.

Did you have recruitment points before you took that region? Or you never had any to begin with?

[lesterthenerd]

I'll check it out, but that sounds like the sort of problem that would occur with not loading the minimod above dei in the priority chain using mod manager. Gimmie 5 minutes to check.

Yes i just fixed it by using the mod manager but is it right that you get 6 recruitment points in italia playing as rome?

Getting six in magna graca as well. using the historicaldevelopmentrome