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Thread: When Scholars Attack: academic criticisms of others' works in history

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    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default When Scholars Attack: academic criticisms of others' works in history



    Anyone who's ever received a higher education - at least within the realm of the humanities - has most likely seen it before: scholar-on-scholar violence...or rather ...verbal assault in writing. In this thread we shall explore the dark and murky underworld of academia, where petty slug fests and disagreements over trivia and arcane knowledge are dished out with a nice cold, merciless dose of -smackery. I will posit one good example below, but I'd like it to spur healthy debate as well as examples that you've seen or read (preferably with quotes you can share with us all). Basically what I'd like to know is this: did the accused and the shamed have it coming to them?

    In his book chapter "Walter Map on Henry I: the Creation of Eminently Useful History" of The Medieval Chronicle VII (Amsterdam and New York, 2011: 103-114), Alan Cooper (PhD 1998, Harvard University), Associate Professor of History at Colgate University, NY shows us all just how to rag on and dis a motherer East Coast style.

    Cooper gives us a litany of reasons as to why we should not trust Walter Map's 12th-century De nugus curialium, a collection of anecdotes and tall tales that happens to include in one section a chronicle of recent and contemporary events. He then proceeds with the smack down (I shall begin the quote with a short description first of Walter Map's intentions in writing his work):

    In short, then, Henry I's court is useful history to Walter Map, because it demonstrates how he wishes the court of his day were run. The use of Henry I to make these points is revealing. Although Map is anything but a typical observer and his account is anything but neutral, his misty-eyed depiction of Henry I as the orderly, wise king shows us the way in which Henry I had become the object of all sorts of pious fantasying by the end of his grandson's reign. Stating that one was doing things the way they had been done in granddad's day was the way to win an argument at Henry II's court.

    Nevertheless, there is a final fourth way in which Map's account of Henry I has proved useful. Map's phrase for Henry I, amator pacis, 'lover of peace', has come to dominate the scholarship on the king. To begin with, the pleasant little fable of Henry bringing peace by arranging marriages between English and Norman (on the model of his own) was implicitly adopted by Bishop Stubbs, for whom English history started up again with Henry after the interruption of the Conquest. Above all, though, it is the supposed peace and order of the court that proves Henry's status as an administrator and a peace-loving founder of government. Warren Hollister, in his biography of Henry I, observes that Eadmer states that in 1109 Henry reformed his court, forbidding plunder, extortion, theft and rape, and says Hollister, 'We hear no further complaints about rowdy courtiers for the remaining twenty-seven years of his reign' (2001: 214). It is clear where this idea of a peaceful court comes from: Hollister remarks that 'The royal clerk Walter Map, looking back nostalgically from the bustle and confusion of Henry II's court, reports very plausibly that Henry I had a register complied of all his earls and barons and that he provided them too with set per diem allowances of bread, wine, and candles while they were in attendance at his court, thus compensating in part for the new rule against robbing villagers' (Hollister (2001: 214; Hollister is referring to De nugis, 438-39). Above all, Map's comment about a register of allowances for the lords in attendance at the court becomes elided with the document known as the Constitutio domus regis, a short list of allowances for household servants dating from after the king's death in 1135. Hollister argues that the Constitutio must be from earlier in the reign (2001: 27), although he has no evidence beyond the confident assertions of Map. Form this starting point, Hollister is able to accept Map's depiction of the court at face value, making it into the court of a Renaissance prince - Hollister's phrase (1997: 14): 'By such means as these, Henry transformed his court from a gang of itinerant predators into a company of well-controlled courtiers who, despite the new constrictions and meticulous organization, evidently still managed to enjoy courtly life and make it a nucleus of incipient chivalry' (2001: 215). Judith Green, Henry's most recent biographer, follows Hollister's lead, and is content to accept the truth of Walter Map's account of the well-ordered court with merchants to supply its every need on the basis of noting that the one survivor of the wreck of the White Ship in 1120 was a butcher (2006: 289). As I have argued elsewhere, the image of Henry I, the lover of peace, is not justified by a close analysis of the contemporary evidence, which shows above all the fear of chroniclers of writing anything but good of him (Cooper 2000: 66-67). It was Walter Map who transformed Henry I, the skilful exploiter of resources, into Henry I, lover of order for its own sake.

    Let me leave you with two quick conclusions. The first is simple: in writing the history of Henry I, do not use Walter Map. Map is, of course, a fine source for the memory of the king, but as a source on the actual events of the reign, he is not useful at all, in fact he is worse than useless. When Map writes about Henry I he is actually writing about Henry II. The second conclusion is, however, about the craft of historical writing. When Map turns, explicitly and deliberately, from the writing of edifying and uplifting fables to the writing of serious history, he accepts the restraints of twelfth-century historical writing. He makes this narrative shift in order to produce useful history; in so doing, he has produced history that is certainly useful, but sometimes for the wrong reasons.


    OFF THE TOP ROPE! Cooper's flying...he's...he's...OW! DOWN GOES HOLLISTER! His tag-team teammate Judith Green is an IMMEDIATE KO! What a victory for Alan "the Alice" Cooper.

    I kid, of course, but nonetheless Cooper's rebuke of anyone who would even conceive of taking Walter Map seriously and at his word is a pretty blistering, stinging verbal slap. You can almost feel how much Cooper is enjoying this admonishment as he dumps boiling oil on Hollister's head from atop his ivory tower.


    So then...you guys have anything juicy to share?

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    Publius Clodius Pulcher's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: When Scholars Attack: academic criticisms of others' works in history

    I do love when this kind of thing happens in a journal article, and you can see the SEETHING academic hatred. It's an internet argument times 100 and it's always both hilarious and enlightening.

    As for contributions, I've got one but I can't quote directly (I sadly only have it in paper form and I'm not typing everything out). I'm doing readings for docent studying at a Holocaust Museum, and in an article ("Holocaust Rescue Revisted") the author and noted Holocaust scholar Yehuda Bauer drop academic smackdowns on multiple scholars, specifically Rafael Medoff and Michael Cohen.






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    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default Re: When Scholars Attack: academic criticisms of others' works in history

    If you ever find the time to share some of Yehuda Bauer's comments (even little snippets you find amusing), please do so!

    I was hoping for more contributions to this thread, but aside from you, apparently no one around here knows of any good examples.

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    hellcatfighter's Avatar Laetus
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    Default Re: When Scholars Attack: academic criticisms of others' works in history

    Sorry for bringing up this thread again, but it just reminded me of my professor, Jeremy Black. He's a noted military historian, with 90 (!) books under his name, and infamous for his grumpy nature.

    In a lecture, he brought up the topic of naval warfare, and basically made a diss track for one of his former colleagues. 'His work was very sloppy and poorly written...I'm thankful he's no longer at the university...'

    After the lecture, I did a background check on the colleague he was dissing. Turns out he was former Royal Navy and teaching at Oxford. Oh well.

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    Default Re: When Scholars Attack: academic criticisms of others' works in history

    Quote Originally Posted by Publius Clodius Pulcher View Post
    I do love when this kind of thing happens in a journal article, and you can see the SEETHING academic hatred. It's an internet argument times 100 and it's always both hilarious and enlightening.

    As for contributions, I've got one but I can't quote directly (I sadly only have it in paper form and I'm not typing everything out). I'm doing readings for docent studying at a Holocaust Museum, and in an article ("Holocaust Rescue Revisted") the author and noted Holocaust scholar Yehuda Bauer drop academic smackdowns on multiple scholars, specifically Rafael Medoff and Michael Cohen.
    Given the topic I'm not surprised. Look up some of the drama between these Holocaust scholars. It is actually hilarious but given that it is THE HOLOCAUST, it is also rather tasteless. A lot of times these incidents come off as publicity stunts and are highly politicized depending on what faction these people are on such as Zionists, anti-Zionists etc. Really self righteous and pretentious, disgusting actually.

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

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    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: When Scholars Attack: academic criticisms of others' works in history

    A really interesting article I came cross recently.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Historians trapped by their Preconceptions

    It is of course, impossible to completely detach yourself from the study of history. Endless books of theory have discussed how many preconceptions even the most pure minded bring to their examination of any historical problem. (See E. H. Carr's 'What s History') Nonetheless, many historians like to believe that they can identify their own preconceptions, and the least flag the warning signs to their readers.

    This concept was bought forcefully to mind few days ago, when I picked up a copy of John Keegan’s book “Six armies in Normandy”. This is a very good book, and one of the early attempts to investigate the battlefield from the perspective of the individual soldiers who are fighting on it. Most importantly though, Keegan stresses in his introduction, it is the intention is to demonstrate that the soldiers from six armies (American, English, Scottish, Polish, German, French) were pre-conditioned by their own societies as to how they would handle battlefield conditions.

    This exploration went well beyond the media commentators who repeatedly statemed that German soldiers are unusually flexible at counter-attacking, or British soldiers dour in defence. These had been heightened in the Second World War, by the concept that a militaristic society such as the Nazis or the Japanese had an advantage in the aggressive indoctrination of the men who became troops, over those of soldiers from more laissez-faire democracies.

    The book is well worth reading for its own sake, but for me the most interesting thing is Keegan’s losing battle with his own preconceptions.

    Keegan begins his introduction by talking about his childhood war years, and his automatic assumption of their invincibility of the British Empire, which he later had to rethink. Unfortunately he then does a big speel about how much he was impressed by the American troops who turned up, and blown away by American power.

    I read the rest of the book with interest, to see where he would realize that his secondary childhood perspective was as inaccurate as his first, but came away with a firm impression that he based the rest of his writings on his secondary indoctrination. Which made me consider how the world looked form the perspective of that child.

    The initial perspectives are fair enough. Keegan was stuck in a backwater where he rarely saw anyone but Home Guard – second line ones at that – to compare with the arriving waves of newly trained and equipped American troops. He had rarely seen first line British equipment or troops, and had no idea how American equipment behaved in combat (by comparison with how it looked shiny and new in a field).

    It made me think for a minute about how wartime propaganda clips focus on the best looking stuff, regardless of how useful it is. There are some very cute photo’s from the Sitzkreig period showing British troops proudly displaying the pretty 25mm anti-tank guns they had bought from the French. These guns proved to be totally useless. But then I thought that one through a bit further. By comparison the American troops who arrived in Britain in 1942 were equipped with 37mm anti-tank guns… which were completely useless by that stage in the war. Later they were re-equipped with nice 57mm anti-tank gun (copies of the British 6 pdr), which were quite good when they first arrived for the British in 1942 (not really until 1944 for most American units), but fairly un-useful by the time the Americans got to the front line in Normandy. By that time the British had long since been using 17 pdr’s for as many as possible of their tanks and anti-tank units, (guns which the Americans felt they could do without at the time… until events proved them wrong). In the particular case of anti-tank guns then, the Americans relied on British equipment, and were constantly years behind the British in their use.

    I then thought for a few minutes about what Keegan wasn’t seeing. He presumably didn’t get pictures of the badly equipped American troops in the Phillipines, who would have made his local second rank Home Guard look pretty good by comparison. He presumably didn’t get pictures of the Marine troops on Guadalcanal, in their British style helmets, lacking any modern armoured vehicles or landing craft: and generally less well equipped than the British units in Malaya.

    Most commentaries are scornful about the British using the hopeless American Brewster Buffalo fighter in Malaya. (The Buffalo had been sent to Malaya because it was not remotely capable of fighting in the European campaign.) The Brewster Buffalo remained the Americans front line fighter at home, in the Phillipines, and throughout the Pacific right up until the Midway battles and beyond. It was being replaced by the P39 Airocobra for the American forces in Europe – a plane also not suited for high level European combat, and which the Russians felt was best used for low level fighting and ground attack. It was also starting to be replaced by the P40 in the Pacific and Middle East – a plane still felt to be so far behind German or Japanese standards that the joke amongst the Commonwealth forces was that only Australians would be stupid enough to fly it. Apart from the P38 Lighting (which was still having significant engine problems at this stage), the Americans would not get a proper front rank fighter until well into 1943. (March ’43 for the first P47 Thunderbolts, and November ’43 for the first effective P51 Mustangs upgraded with the British Merlin engine.)

    I then considered what he was ‘hearing’ about, but not seeing. There are lots of radio reports in the early months of the war about what American cruisers are up to, but not many visuals. Have a look at the front line cruisers the American’s are discussing in these reports from the Phillipines, or Java, or Guadalcanal. The Omaha Class (much referred to at the start of the war) were constructed in the 1920’s. If you want to compare them with British or Japanese vessels, then you should try and find samples of their vessels built before the First World War. (Actually the Japanese had similar designs at the battle of Tsushima in 1905.) None of the British, or Japanese, or Italian, WW1 vessels in operation were as obsolete as this. In fact the most archaic vessel in the fleets of the British Commonwealth (the old HMAS Adelaide in the Australian navy, which the Australians were trying to keep well away from front line operations) looks, and is, positively modern compared to this interwar design.

    I paused for a minute here. All right, there are endless examples of how bad American equipment was in 1942 and for much of 1943. (Their front line destroyers were still predominantly the old WW1 ‘four stackers’ until 1943 - the sort of ships which the British immediately converted to ‘long range escorts’ because they felt them completely unsuitable for front line operations. Any American escort carriers passed to Britain even in 1944 and 1945 were immediately put into dockyards for 6 week to be lifted to British standards of safety and fire control.) But an impressionable boy could not be expected to know that. Surely what he saw when the American ground troops which turned up in early 1944, was an army exceptionally well equipped for action?

    Well no. Certainly they had lots of shiny new vehicles, and some very useful new ones like bulldozers. But as for the rest? Much of their equipment looked pretty, but was not up to battling the Germans. I have mentioned their anti-tank weapons. Their main semi-automatic rifles had a nasty habit of loudly ejecting the clip and announcing ‘I am out of ammunition’ to their opponents. Their main squad support weapon was the dreadful BAR. Their Armoured Personnel M3 half-tracks – which had worked well in the desert – were now inadequate for Normandy (the British had to convert battle tanks into ‘Kangaroo’ carriers at this stage). The main battle tank was the Sherman, which had looked efficient for a few months in 1942 - until it met the first Tiger’s, but was woefully under-gunned and under-armoured by 1944. (The British had up-gunned a Sherman with a 17 pdr, and offered the Americans equal numbers, but the Americans felt they didn’t need it. Even the Firefly was not a good tank – like the rest of the Sherman designs the German’s called it a ‘Tommy Cooker’ and the British a ‘Ronson’… lights first time every time.)

    Don’t get me wrong, none of the Allied tanks were up to taking on the Germans at this stage, but for very good reasons to do with governmental response times. The key problem for the British seems to be that once the new Panzer IV demonstrated that the British needed to react the way the Germans had responded to the Matilda, they moved to a 6 pdr tank. Unfortunately someone decided that a 6 pdr tank would do it to see out the war. (The crucial memo apparently came from Eighth Army, though Montgomery denied ever seeing it.) So when the German responses to the T34 turned up, it took as long for the British to respond as it had taken the Germans to respond to the T34. (The Challenger and Sherman bodge jobs arrived in early 1944, the Comet improvement in late 1944 , and the Centurion in 1945.) The Americans were in the same boat. The Sherman seemed successful when it first arrived, so someone decided it would see out the war. Up-guns or replacements were started to late (the 90mm Sherman bodge up in late 1944, the new Pershing in early 1945). The Wehrmacht repeatedly had this problem with Hitler themselves.

    Now none of this is to say that a boy of Keegan’s age should have known this at the time. But most of it suggests that Keegan the man is incapable of applying the dispassion to his second childhood fantasy that he believes he applied to his first. From my perspective it makes it probable that the ‘dispassion’ he claims he applied to his first misconception was more bitterness and dismissal than real insight. Likewise the perspective of his ‘rebound relationship’ is highly suspect.

    This reinforces a suspicion that I have had about many writings to do with World War Two (or other conflicts). Emotional enthusiasm outweighs a dispassionate review of the facts. Self justifying claims – or whinges – lead to an inaccurate interpretation of reality. Despair - or relief - lead to overblown responses. You get an entire generation of historians whose interpretation of the evidence has to be carefully assessed. Maybe it is just not possible to be dispassionate about events you have lived through? Perhaps it is less that studying history influences what you study, and more that the studiers personal history influences their interpretation?

    I love Keegan’s work - and those of many other people of his generation - for the vivid and informed reporting. But I have strong reservations about the emotional contents of many of their conclusions. The more analysis I do of the evidence, the more carefully I have to rethink the value of most of the trite statements that many books reel off, about how the world worked.


    Source
    Last edited by hellheaven1987; September 16, 2017 at 04:52 AM.
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    Default Re: When Scholars Attack: academic criticisms of others' works in history

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Oda Nobunaga View Post
    Given the topic I'm not surprised. Look up some of the drama between these Holocaust scholars. It is actually hilarious but given that it is THE HOLOCAUST, it is also rather tasteless. A lot of times these incidents come off as publicity stunts and are highly politicized depending on what faction these people are on such as Zionists, anti-Zionists etc. Really self righteous and pretentious, disgusting actually.
    People want to own history and deploy it to control the present. The Holocaust is a very emotionally stirring event, why wouldn't a politician want to own that? I recall when the film The Pianist came out it was lauded as a brilliant work, about a rather silly naïve young Jewish Polish bloke who survives the war by the generosity of others. There was one reviewer who ranted on about how it wasn't "reality". This despite the fact the director was Polanski (a Pole who survived the war) and written by a Polish Jewish guy who actually lived the event: it was an autobiography made by people who had been there, but this reviewer thought he knew the events better than them.

    Can't find the review online, but it was weird to think an academic in his 30's or 40's in 2002 New York thought he owned the subject matter and that Polish Jews who live the events did not.

    Quote Originally Posted by hellheaven1987 View Post
    A really interesting article I came cross recently.

    Source
    Its a worthwhile insight. Its very hard to be across all the data and theories in any field these days, and specialist areas (like military history, but this applies to any area eg economic history) can become echo chambers with outdated assumptions hanging around when they have been demolished in other areas. I've seen a lot of either trite or smug references to military stuff in general histories (eg British authors being dismissive of French military achievements) that the slightest acquaintance with military history would have stood on its head. I recall one twerp reducing the war of the Spanish succession to a risible coda: "Marlborough had some British soldiers in red coats and he put them up the front in each battle and that's how Louis XIV was defeated" seriously that stupid. Another myth is "in WWI the British put the Australian Army in the front line to suffer all the casualties" which is for a number of reasons. Australian politicians (like Canadians) requested their forces be used for glorious actions to inspire support for the war on the home fronts. They received extra training and the best equipment and support, and adjacent English/other Imperial units suffered as badly as the Aussies (sometimes worse for lack of support).

    The other terrible curse is the propaganda that's solidified into accepted history, such as "England has never been successfully invaded in over a thousand years". This rubbish gets recycled over and over, despite no basis in fact.

    Keegan's basic premise about national character being read into every event is apposite; it is source bias feeding bias confirmation. This is present both negatively and positively: I recall reading a British journalist's account from occupied Japan in 1945, hearing the cries of women being raped by Australian soldiers. This was an horrible event, but also remarkable as Australian troops had not yet arrived in Japan as part of the occupation forces. I think there was a tendency for British journalists to blame any rowdy or dishonourable behaviour by Empire forces on Australians present, after all they are larrikin individualists and all descended from convicts, aren't they? When they do riot (as in Singapore in 1941) well it just goes to show they are all like that.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

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    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: When Scholars Attack: academic criticisms of others' works in history

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Keegan's basic premise about national character being read into every event is apposite; it is source bias feeding bias confirmation.
    Are you an Australian? Oh wait you are...

    I post that article because the example the writer used, which quite a number of VV visitors probably are familiar with Keegan and the book the writer mentioned. Regardless, the point is, everyone has preconceptions/bias, which affect our viewpoints various way. So a lot of disagreements are probably due to those different viewpoints, and it is difficult to judge who is wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    Hellheaven, sometimes you remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide, except without the winning parable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    Cameron is midway between Black Rage and .. European Union ..

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    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
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    Default Re: When Scholars Attack: academic criticisms of others' works in history

    I'm pretty sure that I don't have any sort of bias whatsoever.

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

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    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: When Scholars Attack: academic criticisms of others' works in history

    Here is a more specific example of how bias affect our historical view.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    The Mythology of British Weakness in the Second World War
    I have just finished reviewing a book by Augustine Meaher IV, called The Road to Singapore: the Myth of British Betrayal. It is an excellent analysis of how Australian political, social, industrial, and military elites, spend the entire interwar period failing to prepare Australia for what was to come in the Second World War. Its fundamental premise is that nobody should get away with shortchanging their own defences for 20 years, and then claiming that a resulting crisis is somebody else’s fault.

    Imperial defence, from as early as 1863, was founded on the idea that Britain would coordinate a central response to any threat, but that each Dominion and associated territory was responsible for their own local defences. Throughout the interwar period Australia, like all other Dominions, had been repeatedly told that Imperial defence required adequate local defences to hold off raids until relief could arrive. The defence strategy of the British Empire and Commonwealth was to hold the mobile military forces, such as the main fleets and expeditionary armies (both of which had been voluntarily reduced due to League of Nations and Washington Naval Treaty commitments), at central nodes from which there dispatched to any area under threat. This could take several months. At a minimum this would be six weeks, and as worldwide threats rose when the Second World War commenced, it was raised to six months. Australia never prepared adequate defences to withstand raids for even six weeks.

    The screams of betrayal from the Australian Labor Party in 1942 were an extremely good cover for their own resistance to all military expenditure for the preceding 20 years. Disarmament, pacifism, and appeasement had been the catch cries of all ALP policy right through the 1930s. Realistically the Curtin government had the choice of coming clean on their betrayal of their own people, or of pretending it was possible to blame somebody else.

    Ever since poor historians have used selective readings of the source materials to pretend that the idea that the British Empire could defend itself in the Far East was always a fantasy. (Morris, J. Farewell the Trumpets; Bell, Roger. Unequal Allies; Thornton, AP. Imperialism in the 20th Century; Neidpath, J. The Singapore Naval Base in the Defence of Britain’s East Empire; Robertson, J. Australia at War 1939-1945; Johnston, W. Great Britain Great Empire.) In fact some historians went so far as to argue that Britain did not possess the power to hold her colonial territories even if she had not been involved in fighting a major war in Europe. (Beloff M. Wars and Welfare; Bell, Coral. Dependent Ally: Day, David. The Great Betrayal; Kennedy, P. The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers; Ansprenger, F. The Dissolution of the Colonial Empires; Barnett, Corelli. Engage the Enemy More Closely.) It is necessary to play quite fast and loose with the source materials to achieve such results.

    At the time of the Japanese attack on Malaya, the Philippines and Pearl Harbor, Britain and her Empire and Commonwealth were engaged in an unparalleled feat of worldwide power projection. Already facing the combined efforts of the entire German and Italian Navy’s, most of the German and Italian air forces, and all of the Italian army - with substantial part of the most modern and powerful elements of the Wehrmacht including crack paratrooper and armoured forces: Britain also had to prepare a large army to defend Turkey and the northern 'Persian' frontiers against a potential German attack if the Soviet Union failed. A further cost was in fighting through a vast quantity of supplies to keep the Soviet Union in the war. (A single months worth of the aircraft and tanks sent to Russia would have saved the entire eastern position.) Aside from those minor details, Britain had to deploy large enough naval, army, and air forces to deter a Japanese attempt to take advantage of such an opportunity. Nonetheless, the forces being lined up for the Far East was staggeringly impressive, if only they could arrive in time.

    By April 1942 Britain would have deployed six divisions to Malay, supported by 16 squadrons of aircraft, nine battleships and three aircraft carriers. This was in response to the early 1941 analysis that what was needed was three divisions, 22 squadrons of aircraft, seven battleships and two aircraft carriers (more aircraft equals less troops). Unfortunately the Japanese struck too soon, and there were only 3 ½ divisions, 16 half strength squadrons, four battleships and one aircraft carrier in the eastern forces. (Most textbooks do not even mention that the main British Eastern Fleet was to assemble at Ceylon, and that capital units were already there when the ill-fated Force Z took the gamble of trying to interfere with Japanese invasion fleet’s while the main Japanese fleet was clearly occupied at Pearl Harbor.)

    In fact by the time Singapore fell in late January 1942, the reinforcements that had arrived - the British 18th division, another Indian and Australian Brigade, and hundreds of more modern aircraft - would almost certainly have been enough to have made the position secure if they had been there at the start. (Japanese descriptions of the campaign repeatedly emphasise their shoestring logistics and how close they came to failure.)

    The British were still conscious that they were fighting a world war. Even as Singapore surrendered, and the Japanese launched an attack into Burma, the Indian Army was sending twice as many troops to face a far more dangerous prospect of a German attack into Persia. Frankly, from the perspective of a world war, the loss of a minor peninsula and naval base was a small price to pay. (Again unnoticed by most history books, is that despite fighting one of the greatest combinations of power in the history of the world until that time, total British territorial losses in World War II amounted to the tiny Channel Isles, and Malaysia and Burma - Australia also lost New Guinea. Territorially, this amounted to a few percent of the territory and population of the Empire.)

    The records of the Combined Chiefs of Staff outline what was actually happening. By June 30, 1942, Britain would have 15 divisions in India, Burma, Ceylon, rising to 22 by December; and 17 divisions in the Middle East, rising to 26 by December. This is of course apart from the dozen divisions in Australia, 45 in Britain itself, and eight in the other parts of Africa. Adding in the divisions in Canada and New Zealand, this means that the British Empire was deploying more than 100 divisions in 1942. (Note that the United States reached its maximum of only 88 divisions in 1945.)

    The next most ignored the fact by most of these revisionist historians, is that despite everything else that was going on, Britain kept her promise to deploy the main fleet to the Far East within six months of conflict commencing. (Even though this meant temporarily shutting down most operations in the Mediterranean to several months. The side effect of this was Rommel’s last successful attack as far as el-Alamein.) When the Japanese launched another spoiling attack in April 1942, the British Eastern Fleet had already assembled 5 battleships, 3 aircraft carriers, 7 cruises, 16 destroyers, and 7 submarines. Additional forces already en route included another 2 battleships and another aircraft carrier plus additional lighter units. In response to the Japanese raid, a further 2 battleships and an aircraft carrier were ordered to the area, with another 2 battleships being suggested as further reinforcements. It is necessary to note here that the original force was already the largest Allied fleet anywhere in the world in 1942. Lifting it to 9 battleships and 5 aircraft carriers would have made it a bigger capital ship force than the entire surviving United States Navy, despite the requirements of the Home fleet, the Atlantic (particularly the dangerous convoys to northern Russia) and the Mediterranean. This is how weak the British Empire was.

    The Japanese raid was an attempt to defeat part of this fleet before it could assemble, and simultaneously to affect public opinion, particularly pro-independence agitation in India (which was hosting the Stafford Cripps Mission to discuss postwar settlement). Frankly the Japanese had only one chance to solve the problem of a two-ocean war. The Americans were temporarily in chaos, with their remaining battleships withdrawn to the US west coast, and only three aircraft carriers available to mount minor raids in the Pacific. The situation would not last, and the Japanese needed to break British naval power before American pressures would prevent them from responding to British counter attacks.

    There is a suprising agreement amongst many historians, that the British Eastern Fleet was very lucky not to meet the Japanese raiders. The general consensus, is that the superior air power of the five aircraft carrier and four battlecruiser Japanese fleet would give it an immeasurable advantage over the British, who only had two modern aircraft carriers (the third little anti-submarine carrier Hermes hardly counting), and five slower battleships. There is particular concern about the four old Revenge class battleships, which were slow and had a relatively light anti-aircraft armament. Again, this is possibly an oversimplification of the source material.

    The Japanese, and Americans, at this stage in the war needed to launch large numbers of aircraft to even find their targets, let alone to get successful attacks. Anybody who studies the Coral Sea or Midway battles, cannot help but be struck by how many aircraft on both sides got lost, attacked the wrong target, or ran out of fuel and crashed. On several occasions, Japanese and American fleets patrolled within a few hundred miles of each other, but failed to connect. By contrast, the British had three years of combat experience with radar, and radar equipped aircraft. The Albacore torpedo bombers on their carriers - which were still biplane models - were strong sturdy reliable aircraft, but not ones suitable to use against enemy fighter opposition in daytime. But they were perfect night strike aircraft, particularly when directed by radar. (Their Swordfish predecessors had achieved spectacular results when only a couple of dozen of them attacked the main Italian fleet base at Taranto night and during wartime. Contrast this with the relatively unsophisticated total effects achieved by a much larger numbers of Japanese planes operating at Pearl Harbor in the day time, when attacking a nation still at peace! The Japs may have sunk twice as many battleships, but the British took out the vital oil tanks and the seaplane base as well.)

    Admiral Somerville, whose command of the Ark Royal and other carriers in Force H for the preceding two years made him by far the most experienced fast carrier task force commander at this stage of the war, planned to manoeuvre his fleet to strike the Japanese at night, and to be out of range during the day. His successful experiences using his radar equipped forces in the narrow Mediterranean made him fairly confident that this tactic could be used even more successfully in the vast spaces of the Indian Ocean. Excellent intelligence - as at Midway – meant that his incomplete fleet was waiting in ambush for the Japanese on April 1, 1942. Unfortunately, after a few days manoeuvring, they returned to base, assuming their intelligence had been incorrect. The Japanese arrived on April 5.

    The two fleets manoeuvred over the next several days, both trying to achieve their preferred advantage. Neither got within range. Again, the implication by many historians is that even if Somerville had managed a night airstrike that damaged or destroyed some Japanese ships, he would then have been within range for a Japanese airstrike the next day. This assumes of course that Japanese damage control would be considerably better than at Midway. Or that the Japanese would be able to direct their attacks more efficiently than at Coral Sea or Midway. That they would be more efficient at taking on a concentrated fleet’s massed anti-aircraft firepower, than the Luftwaffe was in the Mediterranean. It assumes that the limited numbers of British fighters available would not have been able to be just as effective at breaking up attacks as they had been in the Mediterranean. (Note that the British carriers were using Sea Hurricane and Martlett – the US called them Wildcat - fighters, instead of the appalling Buffalo fighters that had been used at Pearl Harbour and Singapore and would still be used in numbers at Midway.) It assumes that the British practice of radar vectoring fighters out of the sun to attack from the best possible angle would be no more efficient than the American and Japanese approach of attacking the head on. (In 1945 off Japan the British would still need far smaller numbers of combat air patrol to achieve the same results as the Americans.) It assumed that the heavily armoured British carriers that survived every hit by both Luftwaffe and Kamikaze during the entire war, would sink as easily as Japanese or American carriers did in the Pacific. For some writers, it is even suggested that be lightly armoured Japanese Kongo class battle cruisers would have an advantage in attack over the slower British battle line on the defence (though there is no recorded example anywhere at anytime of a battlecruiser surviving a stand-up fight against a battleship).

    In effect, it is assumed that everything the far more experienced and battle hardened British had done right in the Mediterranean previously would go wrong here, and everything that went wrong for the still learning Japanese in the Pacific over the next two years would go right here. Dubious.

    The raid was a tactical success, and a strategic failure. Much like the battle of Jutland, the attackers went home crowing about how much damage they have done, but failed in their main operational goal. In both cases the British lost more ships, but in both cases they failed to suffer the strategic losses that the attackers needed to achieve to allow themselves a future freedom of action. The British lost two cruisers, and the ancient anti-submarine aircraft carrier Hermes (which did not even have any aircraft on board). The Japanese lost more of their aircraft and skilled pilots - a steadily wasting resource - then they cared to admit. The British fleet retired to await the rest of its reinforcements. (The faster aircraft carrier squadron to Bombay, and the slower defensive battleship squadron to the east coast of Africa, where it could cover the vital Middle East and Indian transport routes.) The Japanese fleet rushed back to try and maintain some momentum in the Pacific. Within months the cumulative effects of tiredness and steady attrition amongst their pilots and carriers would contribute to significant losses at Coral Sea and Midway. No major Japanese force would ever again attempt to push into the Indian Ocean.

    The collapse of the Japanese offensive potential over these few months was vital. Their early successes against peace-time fleets, or small squadrons scattered around vast areas, were not repeated when they finally started to come up against larger or better prepared Allied forces. The Indian Ocean raid got good headlines, but failed its strategic goals. They may have claimed Coral Sea as a tactical victory, but the ongoing wastage of planes and pilots and ships at Ceylon and Coral Sea left them greatly weakened at Midway. They had rampaged for four months on a shoestring, and even the raids on the Ceylon ports themselves saw them taking significantly greater casualties, for significantly less effect, that had been achieved in the early months of the war. (RAF counter-attacks at Ceylon were the first time Japanese sailors saw bombs falling towards their carriers. None hit, but it was a sign of things to come.)

    None of these exercises demonstrate British weakness. The British Eastern Fleet was quickly diverted to the amphibious invasion of Madagascar to secure lines of communication, and soon after that large elements were sent back to the Mediterranean to knock Italy out of the war. There would be no great need for a large fleet in the Indian Ocean until the time came for major offensives in 1945. Churchill had guaranteed to come to Australia’s defence if it was ever seriously invaded. British troop convoys sailing around the Cape of Good Hope to the Middle East, always had contingency plans to head towards Australia if necessary. One of the armoured divisions that later served in Eighth Army, was listed for diversion to Australia until the events at Coral Sea and Midway made it clear that the threat of invasion was passed. As it turns out, despite the best efforts of the ALP and other Australian politicians, Australia was too strong for Japan to ever seriously consider invading.

    The key thing that most of these historians seem to fail to recognize, is that Britain’s issue was not so much military power as shipping and transport. Britain had planes and tanks (many Canadian or American made), but lacked the ships to supply them to Russia, the Middle East and the Far East simultaneously. Britain did not need 40+ divisions at home, but lacked the troop-lift to be able to toss half a dozen to Singapore or Australia at whim. (Interestingly, the American entry to the war initially made this position far worse. Not only was Britain, for the third year running, trying to prop up a blitzkrieged ally - France, then Russia, then the United States - but the incapacity of the U.S. Navy to provide any convoy protection on its east coast almost lost the allies the Battle of the Atlantic. Even after the British hastily deployed 60 escort vessels to cover the US coast, shipping losses climbed to a level that undermined British ability to feed themselves, keep the Russians in the war, keep the reinforcements flowing to the Middle East and Asia, and pander to a panicked Australian government.)

    For most of 1942 the British Empire and Commonwealth held the line, kept back the combined efforts of Germany and Italy and Japan (with fairly minimal imput from the United States compared to her potential power), and kept the Atlantic and Indian oceans open and suppliers flowing to the vital armies in the Middle East and Asia, and to the Soviets. No other empire in the history of the world has been capable of such a sustained multi-continent and multi-ocean operation. (There were financial costs to all this that I will discuss in another post.) Given that the British and Commonwealth taxpayers spent most of the interwar period trying to avoid just such an obligation, and greatly weakened their militaries in the process, this situation is less reflective of weakness than of the vast untapped inherent strength of the organization.

    It would be nice if some historians could let their political preconceptions about how they think the world should work at least be susceptible to analyzing the actual evidence.


    Source

    So the truth of British military weakness during WWII was:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Pacifist and Libertard everyone up.
    Last edited by hellheaven1987; September 20, 2017 at 10:43 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    Hellheaven, sometimes you remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide, except without the winning parable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    Cameron is midway between Black Rage and .. European Union ..

  11. #11
    Praeses
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    Default Re: When Scholars Attack: academic criticisms of others' works in history

    Quote Originally Posted by hellheaven1987 View Post
    Here is a more specific example of how bias affect our historical view.

    Source

    ...
    This article is a silly exercise in revisionism, full of holes and falsehoods.

    It makes bizarre assumptions "A further cost was in fighting through a vast quantity of supplies to keep the Soviet Union in the war. (A single months worth of the aircraft and tanks sent to Russia would have saved the entire eastern position.) " what an extraordinary thing to say, that Singapore fell because of the Soviets.

    Likewise "Frankly, from the perspective of a world war, the loss of a minor peninsula and naval base was a small price to pay" is an utterly stupid statement. Singapore was not a minor naval base, it was the centrepiece of British strategic position in the Far East. Nor is the Malayan peninsula a minor peninsula, it controls one of the three most critical waterways in the world, ranking third after Suez and Panama as strategic chokepoints. The loss of Singapore opened the way for further Japanese moves into he East indies, and even the possibility of an advance on India. This blatantly idiotic statement reveals either profound ignorance or serious dishonesty on the part of the writer.

    The blame heaped on the Labor Party for cost cutting is strange, given both Britain and Australia had to tighten budgets in the wake of the Depression. The advice of the british emissary Otto Niemeyer in the 1930's to cut back all spending in Australia and repay all British loans ASAP gives a clear idea of the relationship between Britain and the Dominions. There was an realisation before the war that the Empire was stretched and nationalist interests threatened its integrity, while textratcting the resources needed to maintain the Empire meant alienating tits own member states. This proved to be the case in WWII and after, in India, the Middle East and Africa.

    The rapid collapse of the British position in the Far East was the result of strategic over-reach. There was finger pointing and blame, and it went all ways, withy some Australians crying foul, some Britons blaming Australia, and the fact remains that after the war the British Empire continued to collapse, in some places quite rapidly. Britain did project enormous power around the globe, but in doing so they used up resources they were unable to replenish. The events are best explained in light of fundamental structural problems, "weakness" if you like, that meant the British Empire was unlikely to endure whether the war was won or lost.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  12. #12
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default Re: When Scholars Attack: academic criticisms of others' works in history

    Great posts, everyone! Thanks for keeping my thread alive.

    The other terrible curse is the propaganda that's solidified into accepted history, such as "England has never been successfully invaded in over a thousand years". This rubbish gets recycled over and over, despite no basis in fact.
    LOL. What? This is one of the most basic things anyone could refute, though, by just pointing out any obvious case that any serious historian would know. It's just a Google search away, really. These invasions from continental Europe listed below don't even include those from Wales and Scotland (such as Henry Tudor invading England from Wales in 1485):

    * The 1139 invasion of England by Empress Matilda during the Anarchy
    * The 1149 invasion of England by Henry II during the Anarchy
    * The 1326 invasion of England by Isabella of France (with her paramour Roger Mortimer), ending in her regency over Edward III
    * The 1470 invasion of England by Richard Neville, 16th Earl of Warwick, to (briefly) overthrow Edward IV (who fled to Flanders) in support of Henry VI
    * The 1688 invasion of England by the Dutch stadtholder William III, Prince of Orange, overthrowing James II in the Glorious Revolution

    Perhaps someone who didn't know much about medieval history could be excused for not knowing about Matilda, Henry II, Isabella, and Warwick, but how could they not know about the Glorious Revolution? It's one of the most celebrated and studied events in all of English history.

    Other invasions weren't as successful as these, but they nevertheless posed very serious threats, such as the 1487 invasion from Ireland by Lambert Simnel, a pretender to the English throne.

  13. #13
    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: When Scholars Attack: academic criticisms of others' works in history

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    * The 1688 invasion of England by the Dutch stadtholder William III, Prince of Orange, overthrowing James II in the Glorious Revolution
    Well, it can also change to "1688 invasion of England by Mary II of England"; since it is an English, it does not count as foreign invasion!!

    But I guess what people mean is England never had an invasion in Overlord style since 1066, so blame the WW2 fanboys for this misconcept then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    Hellheaven, sometimes you remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide, except without the winning parable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    Cameron is midway between Black Rage and .. European Union ..

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