Swap Campaign - Balance of Social Wars

**Euenus** · December 16, 2013, 08:23 PM

When you play a swap faction, Sparta is swapped out and given to the Greek cities. This shouldn't be the case.

For both gameplay and historical reasons, Sparta should stay independent from the Free Greek cities, because the Greeks slaughter the Macedonians when this happens.

Also, in the Bosporus Kingdom folder, all nations are borderless except for Bosporus. This is probably just a small oversight.

**trenktas** · December 17, 2013, 08:52 AM

sparta is replaced because there is a limited number of kingdoms supported by rtw engine. that's why it's swap factions, it has to replace one in game. and in rs game starts i think when sparta was past it's glory, so it looks like a right choice. at least i think how it is

**Euenus** · December 17, 2013, 01:22 PM

I'm not saying it shouldn't be swapped, but the city of Sparta shouldn't go to the Greek League.

**Darth Bane1** · December 17, 2013, 02:57 PM

Well, then the only way is: Sparta goes to the Free People...

**SD_Man** · December 17, 2013, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by Darth Bane1

Well, then the only way is: Sparta goes to the Free People...

Or the Rebels, whichever one is more aggressive.

**Euenus** · December 17, 2013, 11:28 PM

... yeah... exactly...

**dvk901** · December 18, 2013, 10:26 AM

Well, the whole mod was written, from the bottom up, with the idea that Sparta and the Free Barbarians would be used as swap factions....because we planned swap factions from the beginning. This was a lot of extra work, because we had to make sure that all the necessary units and settings were in place beforehand so that we wouldn't have to re-invent the wheel when we added swap factions. Sparta was the logical choice because it was\is a faction that was purely added as a 'what if' faction in the first place.

I don't think it's 'necessarily' true that just because the Free Greeks get Sparta that they always overwhelm Macedon....but I'll keep an eye out for other reports. Maybe we can 'dumb down' that effect a bit.

**Kirasy** · December 18, 2013, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by dvk901

Well, the whole mod was written, from the bottom up, with the idea that Sparta and the Free Barbarians would be used as swap factions....because we planned swap factions from the beginning. This was a lot of extra work, because we had to make sure that all the necessary units and settings were in place beforehand so that we wouldn't have to re-invent the wheel when we added swap factions. Sparta was the logical choice because it was\is a faction that was purely added as a 'what if' faction in the first place.

I don't think it's 'necessarily' true that just because the Free Greeks get Sparta that they always overwhelm Macedon....but I'll keep an eye out for other reports. Maybe we can 'dumb down' that effect a bit.

Gah sometimes the limitations that are within RTW's engines frustrates me ever so much. Props to you and the team for making such a wonderful mod with so little. I can't help but get the feeling though that this could have been a bit more if CA had done a few things differently.

**SD_Man** · December 18, 2013, 03:05 PM

No I don't think that the Greeks should be considered as a single entity as they often, even in this period, were engaged in "civil war" with one another. Unfortunately I doubt that there is some easy way for the common man to represent this.

**Euenus** · December 18, 2013, 10:08 PM

Achaean League

.

Another thing. Why do the Free Greeks have one gigantic family tree? All other nations have separate ones. It's easier to play with, looks better, and is a lot less... creepy.

**High Fist** · December 19, 2013, 12:31 PM

Rome has separate ones, I don't think any other has. Apart from the recruitable generals and that.

**Euenus** · December 19, 2013, 07:40 PM

Macedon, Ptolemies, Romans, Free Greeks, and Seleucid (maybe Carthage? Never played them) are large enough to need more than one family for the governors, but the Free Greeks have them in one gigantic family tree all branching towards the leader of Bosporus. This creates a family tree that is way too wide. Broken up like the others, you would see the faction leader, his wife, and his children, while other family members would have separate family trees.

**dvk901** · December 20, 2013, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Euenus

Macedon, Ptolemies, Romans, Free Greeks, and Seleucid (maybe Carthage? Never played them) are large enough to need more than one family for the governors, but the Free Greeks have them in one gigantic family tree all branching towards the leader of Bosporus. This creates a family tree that is way too wide. Broken up like the others, you would see the faction leader, his wife, and his children, while other family members would have separate family trees.

It was necessary to do this because of RTW's limitations...again. In order to include the historical leaders of each city state, they had to be in same family to avoid cloned characters and the resulting CTD's. No way around it.

**High Fist** · December 20, 2013, 10:25 AM

Hmm, that's true and I agree with you. But a faction leader for the GCS is kind of redundant anyway, as each city state is spread out all over the world. The King of Bosphorus up in the Black Sea isn't king over the guy in Massalia. Having one big family tree let's you pick a faction leader anywhere on the map, if you have a favourite or something.