Roman armies spawning in my territory

[xsithspawnx]

So I've been playing an Arverni campaign (0-turn, BI exe) for a while and the Romans have recently reached the Marian Reforms. I was prepared to face their endless armies that the script spawns for them, but they have started spawning in my territory now. I have a line of forts and multiple armies guarding our narrow border. I keep an eye out for any fleets they might be sending my way, as well as maintaining a network of spies watching their territory. Point being, I have a pretty good idea what forces they have in my vicinity at any given time. None of these armies come with any warning and they always spawn in the same spot.

I've seen them at least twice now (I play intermittently so there may or may not have been more instances that I'm forgetting) and have taken screenshots both times it's happened.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

While I'm personally of the opinion that the sheer number of armies that Rome is given by the script seems a bit excessive, I can adjust for it in my play style. It's entirely different when they are spawning behind my defenses. These scripted armies start with heavy siege equipment and are more than capable of taking one of my cities the turn they spawn if the AI so chooses. It's quite a pain having to scramble to find an army nearby before any serious damage is inflicted, and I've been lucky so far to have my border armies in decent shape when these surprises arose. If these armies are spawning as intended and not a mistake I'd be curious as to the reasoning behind it. If they're a mistake then hopefully this post will help in fixing it.

Sorry if this comes off sounding a bit annoyed. I have nothing but respect for everyone involved in making and continuing to perfect this amazing mod. I'm more than happy to provide save game files or more info if needed, and it would be amiss of me not to mention how much fun I've been having with this campaign despite these occasional road bumps. Thanks for your time and keep up the great work!

[ur-Lord Tedric]

In order to have the 'Named & Numbered' appear to players when they are playing against Rome and also ensure that the armies look reasonable - the Roman AI faction get's whole scripted armies just like those (there are some restrictions in place, iirc).

Whilst I concentrated on the Romans in testing, the Rebellion is similar and re-uses those scripts, and never experienced this myself, but was aware of it.

I argued against it during v2.6 work and in fact believe that it would be much 'better' if the AI recruited normally and used just the Generics, but the Team wanted the N&N to appear (I'd personally be more than happy if they were only used by players); especially now the AI does indeed recruit pretty good armies. However, as they quite rightly should be able to do, the Team rejected the change idea.

What you are experiencing, however, is one of the pitfalls of such scripting. In general I don't like the idea of whole scripted armies, although at least it can possibly be coped with in 0turn. As I play exclusively 1turn, for all the best reasons, I recognise that it is very distorting and wish it didn't happen.

[xsithspawnx]

Thanks for the reply. I can cope with scripted armies, as I do enjoy fighting against correctly composed legions. My main issue is these legions spawning in my territory. Is there any way to restrict these legions to spawning in territory that is actually owned by Rome at the time? I know scripting is complicated and that simple changes like this are often easier said than done, but it would be a nice to not have to deal with ghost armies appearing out of thin air.

P.S. I like your idea of the AI manually recruiting the generic legions in place of the scripted legions, assuming that they tend to have decent army composition.

[LoGaL]

actually, they shouldn't spawn in your territory.... that's odd

[ur-Lord Tedric]

actually, they shouldn't spawn in your territory.... that's odd

I don't know, having never got into that part, but will make a guess.....

The AI may own a settlement where a certain N&N legion could be recruited; but when it does that build is cancelled and the particular section in the spawning script is activated that spawns the particular legion. The issue therefore could be that both Player (in this case) have settlements that share the same AOR as the legion - but that the legion only spawns in once place.

This new 'issue' may well be a result of the expanded AOR that has come with v2.6 - which was done for great reasons - the AOR system itself being a bit of a game-anomaly in terms of history.

Only a guess, but this could be the reason - I've not been involved in that portion of the scripting.

[LoGaL]

Where is Tone when we need it..............
if i understood well when tone explained, once AI recruits a cohort ( it takes like 5 turns) it instead spawns the full stack, so it seems strange to me that somehow the army spawned when no cohort was recruited... are we sure that the stack doesn't come simply from Massalia or the baleari?

[High Fist]

Where is Tone when we need it..............

Yes... "It"...

Before 2.6, were Rome's armies spawned in Italy?

[xsithspawnx]

The Romans did own both the Balaeric Islands and Massalia at the time the legion spawned, but I'm fairly certain that the stack didn't come from elsewhere by land or sea. I have the path from Massalia heavily fortified and I keep an eye out for any Roman fleets in my vicinity. Aside from that, the stack always appears in the exact same spot, which would seem to indicate that it is indeed spawning there. I'm not sure if either of those share the same AOR, but I guess that explanation makes more sense than anything else I could think of so far.

[tone]

These are spawning where they should according to the script. You can have a look at the spawning coordinates in the script....e.g.

monitor_event UnitTrained FactionType romans_brutiiand not FactionIsLocal
and UnitType legio i germanica
and SettlementName Arretium
and I_CompareCounter legio_igermanica > 16
console_command kill_character "GaiusA Verginius_Crispus"
spawn_army
faction romans_brutii
character GaiusA Verginius_Crispus, general, age 37, x 151, y 147
unit roman armoured general, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit roman praetorian cavalry, exp 3 armour 3 weapon_lvl 1

Each legion has multiple entries in the spawning script to try and make sure that it will get spawned near the legion centre it was recruited from (although in one or two cases like this one the legion is recruited in Northern Spain to encourage Roman expansion there when I think in this case the recruited unit that triggers it is created in Northern Italy).

To get some idea of what was done I will explain for Legio Germanica:

Legio Germanica script:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;legio i germanica
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;


monitor_event UnitTrained FactionType romans_brutii
and not FactionIsLocal
and UnitType legio i germanica
and SettlementName Camulodunon
and I_CompareCounter legio_igermanica > 4
and I_CompareCounter italy_invaded = 0
console_command kill_character "TiberiusB Iulius_Structus"
spawn_army
faction romans_brutii
character TiberiusB Iulius_Structus, general, age 31, x 94, y 227
unit roman armoured general, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit roman praetorian cavalry, exp 3 armour 3 weapon_lvl 1
unit ala vi germanica, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit legio i germanica first, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit legio i germanica, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit legio i germanica, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit legio i germanica, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit legio i germanica, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit legio i germanica, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit legio i germanica, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit legio i germanica, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit legio i germanica, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit legio i germanica, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit cohors i batavorum, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit cohors i batavorum, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit roman antesignani, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit roman antesignani, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit roman syrian archer, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit roman syrian archer, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit scorpion, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
end


console_command add_population Camulodunon -1000
console_command add_money romans_brutii, -30000


set_counter legio_igermanica 0


end_monitor


monitor_event UnitTrained FactionType romans_brutii
and not FactionIsLocal
and UnitType legio i germanica
and SettlementName Vesontio
and I_CompareCounter legio_igermanica > 8
and I_CompareCounter italy_invaded = 0
console_command kill_character "Publius Quinctilius_Crassipes"
spawn_army
faction romans_brutii
character Publius Quinctilius_Crassipes, general, age 39, x 124, y 195
unit roman armoured general, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit roman praetorian cavalry, exp 3 armour 3 weapon_lvl 1
unit ala v gallorum, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit legio i germanica first, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit legio i germanica, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit legio i germanica, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit legio i germanica, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit legio i germanica, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit legio i germanica, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit legio i germanica, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit legio i germanica, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit legio i germanica, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit legio i germanica, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit cohors ii thracia, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit cohors ii thracia, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit roman antesignani, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit roman antesignani, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit roman syrian archer, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit roman syrian archer, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit onager, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
end


console_command add_population Vesontio -1000
console_command add_money romans_brutii, -30000


set_counter legio_igermanica 4


end_monitor


monitor_event UnitTrained FactionType romans_brutii
and not FactionIsLocal
and UnitType legio i germanica
and SettlementName Emporiae
and I_CompareCounter legio_igermanica > 12
and I_CompareCounter italy_invaded = 0
console_command kill_character "MarcusC Vipsanius_Naso"
spawn_army
faction romans_brutii
character MarcusC Vipsanius_Naso, general, age 32, x 94, y 140
unit roman armoured general, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit roman praetorian cavalry, exp 3 armour 3 weapon_lvl 1
unit ala iv hispanorum, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit legio i germanica first, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit legio i germanica, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit legio i germanica, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit legio i germanica, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit legio i germanica, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit legio i germanica, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit legio i germanica, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit legio i germanica, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit legio i germanica, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit legio i germanica, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit cohors iii aegyptia, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit cohors iii aegyptia, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit roman antesignani, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit roman antesignani, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit roman cretan archer, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit roman cretan archer, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit onager, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
end


console_command add_population Emporiae -1000
console_command add_money romans_brutii, -30000


set_counter legio_igermanica 8


end_monitor


monitor_event UnitTrained FactionType romans_brutii
and not FactionIsLocal
and UnitType legio i germanica
and SettlementName Arretium
and I_CompareCounter legio_igermanica > 16
console_command kill_character "GaiusA Verginius_Crispus"
spawn_army
faction romans_brutii
character GaiusA Verginius_Crispus, general, age 37, x 151, y 147
unit roman armoured general, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit roman praetorian cavalry, exp 3 armour 3 weapon_lvl 1
unit ala iv hispanorum, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit legio i germanica first, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit legio i germanica, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit legio i germanica, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit legio i germanica, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit legio i germanica, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit legio i germanica, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit legio i germanica, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit legio i germanica, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit legio i germanica, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit legio i germanica, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit cohors iii aegyptia, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit cohors iii aegyptia, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit roman antesignani, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit roman antesignani, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit roman cretan archer, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit roman cretan archer, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
unit scorpion, exp 3 armour 2 weapon_lvl 2
end


console_command add_population Arretium -1000
console_command add_money romans_brutii, -30000


set_counter legio_igermanica 12



end_monitor

The legions are spawned as a result of single cohort being recruited in a particular settlement.For Legio I Germanica, there are 4 recruitment sites:

Camulodunon
Vesontio
Emporiae
Arretium

The way it's done is that there is a single counter for each legion which dictates a "threshold" which must be reached before the legion can be spawned again, even if the single cohort that triggers it spawning has been recruited again. This counter threshold is set lower for legions recruited further away from Rome and higher for nearer Rome. You can see for Camulodunon it has to be greater than 4 whereas for Arretium it has to be greater than 16. This means that when Rome expands, legions will always tend to be recruited nearer the frontiers (which makes sense for the AI), because the threshold for recruitment for the more distant sites is always reached first. If Italy is attacked however, the "and I_CompareCounter italy_invaded = 0" kicks in and helps legions to be recruited again in Italy in preference to further away.

The problem in your case is the spawning coordinates rather than the recruitment centre, and you can fairly easily work out where you want the legion to be recruited instead (somewhere in Italy....probably best to copy and paste from another legion that's recruited in Italy as you don't want to spawn in mountains or forest as they'll get stuck).

[LoGaL]

high fist don't act like a grammar nazi eh,i find IT irritating )

[High Fist]

high fist don't act like a grammar nazi eh,i find IT irritating )

I'm not, if I was being a grammar nazi, you'd know it. It was a joke that tone wasn't a person.

Now it's not funny anymore.

BTW, it's High Fist, with the capitals please and make sure to capitalise "I" in the future. I can be a grammar nazi if I want to be.
(Done with the off topic, please forgive me forumites)

[xsithspawnx]

Thanks for the detailed answer tone! I'll look into that before I play again.

[dvk901]

LOL

[LoGaL]

Okay High Fist

[SD_Man]

Okay High Fist

Hmm, no period?

[LoGaL]

happy christmas!

[LoGaL]

[High Fist]

Lulz. Happy Christmas to you too!