Catalonia prepares for a referendum, Madrid vows to block it

[Papay]

http://news.yahoo.com/spain-39-catal...132624519.html

MADRID (Reuters) - Separatist parties in Spain's northeastern Catalonia region on Thursday agreed the wording of an independence referendum on November 9, 2014, but the Spanish government said the vote was illegal and would not happen.

Catalan regional government head Artur Mas said the vote would ask two questions: "Do you want Catalonia to be a state?" and "Do you want that state to be independent?"
Spain's Justice Minister Alberto Ruiz-Gallardon immediately said the vote could not take place because the constitution would not allow it.
The ruling People's Party and the main opposition Socialists have both decried Catalan breakaway rhetoric. Both have lost substantial voter support in the region as tensions between Catalonia and Madrid have risen.
Catalonia has strong historic and cultural roots and its own language, aside from Spanish. It wants more say over taxes and public spending, demands that have come to a head as Spain has implemented tough austerity measures to cut its budget deficit.
Polls show that around half Catalonia's residents would choose independence in a yes-or-no breakaway referendum.
The region, whose capital is Barcelona, makes up a fifth of the Spanish economy and around 15 percent of its electorate.

Very serious. If Catalonia gains independence say goodbye to Real-Barcelona

[Stavroforos]

How will Catalonia gain independence if Spain doesn't allow it?

[King Gambrinus]

How will Catalonia gain independence if Spain doesn't allow it?

It will surely gain recognition from the UN at least, as well as a handful of other countries.

So what if Spain, France, UK and other massive ''nation''-states try to block it. The clock is ticking down on their centralised systems. If they had compromised instead of always silencing regionalists and calling them extremists, etc. they wouldn't have got into this mess.

I still find this to be a rather cyncial move from Catalonia though, who benefited from the central governments' investment on many an occasion.

[John ''True Grit'' Wayne]

How will Catalonia gain independence if Spain doesn't allow it?

The UN says people can decide themselves like Gibraltar and Fawklands.Self determination is law.

[Mangalore]

The UN says people can decide themselves like Gibraltar and Fawklands.Self determination is law.

No, the UN actually doesn't say that. It's primarily working within the concept of sovereign countries, as such it doesn't encourage self determination which is why various de facto seceded regions are not accepted as sovereign countries by the UN. In essence the sovereign country the region wants to secede from needs to give their okay (or be pummeled into giving their okay). It's not the UN's call, it would create a conflict of interest.

[Menelik_I]

The wording is kind of weird, why not have a simple question : Do you want Catalunia do be an independent state ?

This seems to be a set of dishonest questions, because if "Do you want Catalonia to be a state" wins whiles "Do you want that state to be independent?" the separatists will get a Scottish style devolved government to be used a launch board for future secessionist drives.

Catalan regional government head Artur Mas said the vote would ask two questions: "Do you want Catalonia to be a state?" and "Do you want that state to be independent?"

[Gaidin]

How do you think?

[Stavroforos]

How do you think?

The tercios might crush it?

[Condottiere 40K]

Salmond sends Scottish soldiers to support secession.

[Bobz]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Catalonia have debts to the central government in the tens of billions? I imagine trying to unilaterally declare independence with that hanging over you wouldn't be easy, if there is even the public appetite for it.

[Facupay]

This is all sabre-rattling to distract the spanish people from the government's failure of not getting Gibraltar back.

The old tactic of using internal problems to hide external ones. Those crafty spaniards.

[ElvenKind]

Best of luck to you Catalonia, if you feel it`s time for a change, go for it!

[Copperknickers II]

If Catalonia wants to secede then it has every right to do so. Shameful and tyrannical behaviour from Spain trying to block it. They should behave like the British government, and respect the rights of their people. Even better, they should actually try and deal with Catalonia's concerns instead of ignoring them.

[The Great Montrose]

An Independent Scotland will recognise them, agree with Copperknickers shameful move from Spain even saying they'll block this, these people have a right to self determination.

[Gaidin]

Watch half their business crash now that they have to export to Spain and pay expenses for that.

[John ''True Grit'' Wayne]

Bollocks the Catalan economy is the best in Spain.

[King Gambrinus]

Bollocks the Catalan economy is the best in Spain.

Have you been to Catalonia recently? There are some real worrying dead zones developing in that region. Its heavy reliance on Barcelona needs to be fixed and its losing a lot of the British retirees to the Deep South of Andalusia .

The CiU thinks it can make Catalunya recompetetive and attractive again by cutting taxes for businesses that probably weren't paying much anyway. The left Esquerra Republicana are kind of towing the anti-Franco, traditional Catalan nationalism. Add to that the promise of being released from austerity imposed by Madrid, Brussels and Frankfurt.

[Almogaver]

Have you been to Catalonia recently? There are some real worrying dead zones developing in that region. Its heavy reliance on Barcelona needs to be fixed and its losing a lot of the British retirees to the Deep South of Andalusia .

Please, I'd love to hear which dead zones these are.

OMG the British expats are fleeing Catalonia and settling in Andalusia! Damned nationalists.

Oh and CiU is actually raising taxes btw. But they can't raise taxes on businesses because they legally don't have the authority to do that. Only the central government can raise or lower taxes on businesses (Impuesto de Sociedades).

[King Gambrinus]

Please, I'd love to hear which dead zones these are.

OMG the British expats are fleeing Catalonia and settling in Andalusia! Damned nationalists.

Oh and CiU is actually raising taxes btw. But they can't raise taxes on businesses because they legally don't have the authority to do that. Only the central government can raise or lower taxes on businesses (Impuesto de Sociedades).

Roses, Figueres, mainly in the north of Catalunya.

CiU has been promising tax hikes for small businesses for years. Only because of the crisis and the decades of mismanagement they have had to rake in some money to pay for their local government.

I was joking about the British expats, but like most of the Mediteranean tourism and second homes play a big role in the economy ( a sure sign of a failing economy) and the way things are going that's becoming unsustainable. I love the fact most of those clowns would probably vote UKIP had they not moved to Spain though...

[Almogaver]

Roses, Figueres, mainly in the north of Catalunya.

CiU has been promising tax hikes for small businesses for years. Only because of the crisis and the decades of mismanagement they have had to rake in some money to pay for their local government.

I was joking about the British expats, but like most of the Mediteranean tourism and second homes play a big role in the economy ( a sure sign of a failing economy) and the way things are going that's becoming unsustainable. I love the fact most of those clowns would probably vote UKIP had they not moved to Spain though...

Roses and Figueres?? I thought you'd say some town around Lleida or the rural areas of Baix Ebre and Ribera d'Ebre but the North? Around Girona? it has aways been one of the provinces with the highest income per capita in Spain.

And Figueres and Roses are doing reasonably well, these are certainly not "dead zones". It's advantageous for them to be very close to the French border and having lots of French weekend visitors who contribute greatly to the local commerce especially in the border town of La Jonquera.

There other areas in Catalonia that are struggling much more than the province of Girona.