Well we had a Maili thread how about that CAR

[conon394]

So as far as I can tell another failed state failing worse...

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...rican-republic

So a mess in a made up former French colony and here comes France to fix it in its new aggressive posture so far so good; but how much can France afford? Will the apparent religious nature of at least some of the conflict attract Jihad types or are they busy in Syria? What really needs to happen to save the CAR from just just one type of failed state to the next and actually turning into a functioning, working country.

Thoughts, discussion, better news links etc all are up for reply - any local insight?
---------------

Aside (re picture at bottom of story) do all NATO nations do the helmet cam thing now? If so does this just mean all to many Generals liked Aliens 2

[Petrucci]

WTF is wrong with French? Playing colonial game again? They can't even handle their own problems like build and maintaining multicultural society and still they want to show off in sub-saharan Africa.

[conon394]

WTF is wrong with French? Playing colonial game again? They can't even handle their own problems like build and maintaining multicultural society and still they want to show off in sub-saharan Africa.

Well there a lot bad poor things you can say about France and its post Colonial policy in its former African colonies. But on balance so far France looks to be just acting to secure the Capital from what was looking like a decent into chaos while regional bodies and the UN try to scrape up a peace keeping force. The latest reports say France has pledged equipment aid and is going to lobby the EU for financial assistance for any such reginal/UN force.

[Petrucci]

Well there a lot bad poor things you can say about France and its post Colonial policy in its former African colonies. But on balance so far France looks to be just acting to secure the Capital from what was looking like a decent into chaos while regional bodies and the UN try to scrape up a peace keeping force. The latest reports say France has pledged equipment aid and is going to lobby the EU for financial assistance for any such reginal/UN force.

How did Mali situation end?
I think their allies Germany and USA are letting them have their own little sphere of influence like you let kids playing in the sand.That way France is happy and consider herself important and don't interfere in their buisiness.
Anyway I still have a question why are french doing this, cui bono? Except 200 hundread years long desire to project themselves as badass.

[Prince Regent George]

Anyway I still have a question why are french doing this, cui bono? Except 200 hundread years long desire to project themselves as badass.

Bozizé, the overthrown president of CAR, has already given the answer:

Before giving oil to the Chinese I met with [oil company] Total in Paris and told them to take the oil,” he declared. “Nothing happened. I gave oil to the Chinese and it became a problem.

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013...tml?view=print

As a result, France decided to press a bit her former ally, by encouraging the islamist partisans to continue their operations. Their leader, Djotodia, has already assured the community that he will reconsider CAR's financial treaties, for protecting the interests of his motherland, of course...

to see whether things were badly done, to try and sort them out.

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013.../cafr-a01.html

The problems appeared when the islamists thought of expanding their activities, not to mention that Séléka started to disintegrate with negative results, in what concerns the health of the christian community. Inevitably, the christians were obliged wo answer in a rather christian way (although I don't blame them for reacting to the rebels' atrocities), and the whole country is almost in a state of a civil war, where personal security is far from guaranteed, even for the French troops.

Colonialism and religion at their best!

[conon394]

Bozizé, the overthrown president of CAR, has already given the answer:

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013...tml?view=print

As a result, France decided to press a bit her former ally, by encouraging the islamist partisans to continue their operations. Their leader, Djotodia, has already assured the community that he will reconsider CAR's financial treaties, for protecting the interests of his motherland, of course...

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013.../cafr-a01.html

The problems appeared when the islamists thought of expanding their activities, not to mention that Séléka started to disintegrate with negative results, in what concerns the health of the christian community. Inevitably, the christians were obliged wo answer in a rather christian way (although I don't blame them for reacting to the rebels' atrocities), and the whole country is almost in a state of a civil war, where personal security is far from guaranteed, even for the French troops.

Colonialism and religion at their best!

I am rather sure the World Socialist Web Site is not the best report of record or unbiased. The problem here is being China's buddy is no better and likely worse unless you think that Asian light of democracy, free press, environmentalism and freedom is going to be a better benefactor for the people of the CAR or don't you think they will just be one great power...

I can dig up more stories if you want but on balance China is just as predatory as France if not more so:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...-for-gold.html
http://www.hrw.org/news/2011/11/03/z...se-owned-mines

Its also certainly more likely to want a corrupt dictator it can buy than the US or France since their is no feed back method to create even minor political pressure on it leaders.

[[Tar]Naru33]

I think this is where U.S should step up its game... Peacekeeping under the U.N umbrella, but I think I read somewhere that U.S do not want to wear U.N uniforms and troops to be under U.N command.

Every operation involving troops that U.N passed that U.S joined in, the U.S always kept under it's own command and troop uniforms as far as I am aware.

[conon394]

I think this is where U.S should step up its game... Peacekeeping under the U.N umbrella, but I think I read somewhere that U.S do not want to wear U.N uniforms and troops to be under U.N command.

Every operation involving troops that U.N passed that U.S joined in, the U.S always kept under it's own command and troop uniforms as far as I am aware.

Having a blue helmet is just not politically viable in the US... Also to be fair its always better for blue helmets to come places that don't have some real or perceived interest or past intervention is states and for the US that is hard as the Cold War kind put our finger prints everywhere. I think in some ways that is also a problem for reginal forces like French hope to raise thay have too much local interest in the game. Honestly if anyone needs to step up their game its China a US supported intervention with Chinese and say Canadian or Swedish troops with only limited regional help would be the best since nobody on the ground could say it was more than just restoring order.

But I think if you look (and this is a failing of US self PR) you notice the US does provide equipment, logistics and huge chunks of the UN budget and support of special agencies as well look how much the WHO depends on the CDC:

http://www.cdc.gov/globalidplan/24-appendix_d.htm

[DarthShizNit]

Another day, another African state, Vive la légion.

[Col. Tartleton]

Killing the bad guys to protect the geopolitical interests ftw.

[conon394]

How did Mali situation end?

Better than it was or was going to be.

http://bridgesfrombamako.com/

(re top 2 posts)

Whatever you think of French colonialism 60 years ago or how line drawling in Europe from 100+ years ago created the ethnic tensions and political issues that dog Mali now and of course will still do that - It seems a tad unfair to judge the actions of current French leaders as if they 100 year zombies.

Now I'm not saying is all pink glasses rosy but of it was worse and the about the same before...

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=249477553

But all in all France kept the place from descending into chaos, and the resulting elections were decent and a Coup leader is in Jail.

[Petrucci]

You have a point, and I partly agree. We have to wait and see how will things go.
You owe me answer on cui bono?

[Menelik_I]

I don't know what the is going in CAR, I personally don't care, other people likely don't also.

[Col. Tartleton]

I don't know what the is going in CAR, I personally don't care, other people likely don't also.

I think when your country has a name so generic and obviously assigned to it, it's hard for anyone to care.

[Petrucci]

Very interesting posts PRG and conon. We have an answer why did France interfere.
And another proof China is not differente then any other Great power.

[Aanker]

I prefer Audi, in fact any German car is pretty decent thanks to quality control and...

Oh wait, wrong kind of car.

In fact my reaction when I first read the abbreviation (on CNN) was, "what the is CAR? Some African country I forgot?" Apparently so.

I think it's great to see France poke about in Africa and provide liberté for peoples who must surely be tired of fighting at this point. But I would also like to see a greater African involvement. I guess it will come with time.

[conon394]

So the French are having fun in the CAR, and the US seems to holding to the same doctrine it had since Libya help but let somebody else charge in...

In this while helping the Frence with some logistics the US is apparently going to pay,move, equip and support to have Burundi send of it more of USMC trained troops to another place (already in Somalia and Mali).

So is this sort the outline of the Obama doctrine in Africa?

Let the French or maybe Kenya (Somalia) be at the bleeding edge - logistical support - and then round up US paid 'mercenary force' from whomever we are friends with - no boots on the ground - and toss the odd special force op or drone strike - and little quid pro quo [we don't ask Rwanda too much about its activity in the Congo, we send a some special forces to Uganda to look for the LRA and say little about its anti gay policy as long as troops go to Somalia etc].

Not a one maybe scintillating with moral thunder when you are speechifying in congress but practical and realistic for a nation a little tired of war.

[Knight of Heaven]

Having a blue helmet is just not politically viable in the US...

Ironic, coming from the country that was so crucial, in the creation of UN in the first place.

[conon394]

Ironic, coming from the country that was so crucial, in the creation of UN in the first place.

Perhaps expected the US has always been torn it was involved in the League of Nations as well but then stepped back... also the cold war kind of killed the idealism of it and drove both the USSR and US to spend too much time thinking of the UN as something to be manipulated not used and so neither were ever going to put their soldiers under it except in the most trivial situations

[Knight of Heaven]

True, but the cold war is over.