Crossbowmen and their silly reloading.

[+Marius+]

Could someone please explain to me why crossbowmen do not engage in combat with their x bows already loaded?

I mean, if the sole weakness of the crossbowman in comparison to other bowmen is the slow reload speed, why would he go into battle and start that slow reload loosing precious time instead of just having the bow locked and loaded shooting enemies the very second they come in range?

Is this not possible to mod because of engine limitations or is it just a missed modding opportunity?

Edit: just remembered that units that use firearms do not have the same problem but march into battle with loaded weapon which they shoot the moment enemy is in range. Does this mean that the same could be implemented for crossbowmen or am I grabbing straws here?

[Spanks]

These are not 21 century pieces of engineering, they are old pieces of equipment given to peasants to use for years until they brake or passed on. So keeping one loaded while you run across the battlefield would be impractical and well dangerous unless your smart enough to point it up while you run.

But yes it is annoying. Though I find them unable to arc over crenulations even more annoying.

[+Marius+]

they are old pieces of equipment given to peasants to use for years until they brake or passed on.

They were made with the exact same quality and engineering(if not even more) as the bows at the time, the only difference was the extremely low amount of time a person needed to train and become useful(or deadly) when wielding it.
Crossbows given to peasants? Maybe so, but then again which class of men were given the bow? Kings, dukes and counts?

So keeping one loaded while you run across the battlefield would be impractical and well dangerous unless your smart enough to point it up while you run.

It would not be impractical at all.
Have you ever held or fired a crossbow?
Not only is the string locked until released by a upward movement of the hand which has to be intetional, but you don't need to have a bolt prepared at all, only the bowstring needs to be locked and you can put a bolt from the bag to the body of the crossbow in a single second when needed.

Though I find them unable to arc over crenulations even more annoying.

What does this mean?
They can't shoot over obstacles or?

[+Marius+]

Whelp,

i tried modding it, it did not end well.
All that is left for me is to hope something can be done about this eventually

[romanlegion13th]

Would the string not get weaker over being held under so much tension for so long?
And loads of crossbow men running with loaded crossbows sound like it could go wrong


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[+Marius+]

Would the string not get weaker over being held under so much tension for so long?

No.

And loads of crossbow men running with loaded crossbows sound like it could go wrong

Already answered that.

[Janne]

Would the string not get weaker over being held under so much tension for so long?

No, but I imagine keeping it cocked would be bad for the limbs and I seriously doubt it would have been common practice to walk with a loaded crossbow. Seems like it would be much more likely to be damaged and then you'd be left with what, a dirk?

[╬Ritterbruder╬]

isn't it just because the entire 'shooting animation' simply starts with reloading? just like regular bows? with firelocks, reloading and firing are 2 seperate animations since there is a shifting of position in between. you could say that they should have switched it around, but I honestly doubt it was just done for simplicity, not historical reasons
perhaps to emphasise the firing rate between the different bow types. it would seem pointless to use regular bows in a duel with crossbows if they don't have the faster reload advantage and they get shredded by the first volley

[+Marius+]

it would seem pointless to use regular bows in a duel with crossbows if they don't have the faster reload advantage and they get shredded by the first volley

Bowmen would still have faster reload speed and that first deadly volley you mentioned was the solely sole purpose and reason of the design and usage of the crossbow and its man.

Imagine doing this while having enemy arrows shot at you whilst enemy infantry/cavalry is advancing towards your position:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ziq5zm4uO-Y&t=1m10s

Obviously you would do that BEFORE you were engaged in the front line.

[UndrState]

Well, you've pretty much convinced me Marius - now what are you going to do about it ?

[+Marius+]

Well, you've pretty much convinced me Marius - now what are you going to do about it ?

Whelp,

it has only been a couple of weeks since this happened to me;

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+do+I+mod%3F

I am currently doing some export_descr_unit editing and testing but I am looking for a way to modify those animation combination that RitterBruder mentioned, I will fail of course, but I will still try...of course.

[+Marius+]

No, but I imagine keeping it cocked would be bad for the limbs and I seriously doubt it would have been common practice to walk with a loaded crossbow. Seems like it would be much more likely to be damaged and then you'd be left with what, a dirk?

Sigh,

I find it difficult to reply when people obviously do not read a single word of what I write after they have read the thread title -_-

1) As I said before, there is no reason to keep the weapon loaded with a deadly bolt and walk around with it, only the string has to be cocked.

2) I did not say that they would walk around and march during their actual journey with the crossbow locked, cocked and loaded, but that they would cock and load the damn thing the moment the enemy was in sight or the position of the enemy was known, which means that they would just assume formation and load their crossbows and wait until the enemy comes in range and then fire the first volley the very same second which made that first volley the most important volley of a crossbowmans life since that magical volley was the only reason he could compete with the faster reload of the archer in the first place.


I mean, seriously, why on earth WOULDN'T you load your weapon prior to engaging the enemy if the ONLY weakness of your "extremelylowtrainingrequiredtwo/threetotentimesmorepowerfulldrawweightthanthewarbow" weapon is the slow and often complicated reload aspect?

[Imperator1512]

But with limitations of the engine, how would that work in say an ambush scenario as opposed to a pitched battle? How would you go about setting a 'view range' for which to cock the crossbow? Also, how would you go about making sure that, when ambushed, the string isn't cocked already as it would be in a pitched battle? Sorry if the answer to those seems obvious, I have only had experience in playing mods, not making them (other than Oblivion, which reminds me, is there a TES: TW mod at least proposed somewhere on the interweb?) so my knowledge on the subject is non-existent other than editing descr_strat etc :')

[Sint]

But with limitations of the engine, how would that work in say an ambush scenario as opposed to a pitched battle? How would you go about setting a 'view range' for which to cock the crossbow? Also, how would you go about making sure that, when ambushed, the string isn't cocked already as it would be in a pitched battle? Sorry if the answer to those seems obvious, I have only had experience in playing mods, not making them (other than Oblivion, which reminds me, is there a TES: TW mod at least proposed somewhere on the interweb?) so my knowledge on the subject is non-existent other than editing descr_strat etc :')

Morrowind: Total War

[Banquo]

Imperator, I actually spent my whole day at work thinking about how cool a elder scrolls total war mod would be! I'm almost tempted to learn all i can about modding to develop such a gem.
sorry to go off topic to the OP

[❋ Flavius Belisarius ❋]

Imperator, I actually spent my whole day at work thinking about how cool a elder scrolls total war mod would be! I'm almost tempted to learn all i can about modding to develop such a gem.
sorry to go off topic to the OP

Seconded this. But as you probably know, Third age was already a huge work.

[Basileus of Byzantium]

I believe I've found what you're looking for. This old submod for SS6.1 has a crossbow animation that makes it so that crossbowmen shoot first then reload. However since it's SS6.1 I don't know how you'll go about implementing it. http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...se-17-08-08%29

[+Marius+]

I believe I've found what you're looking for. This old submod for SS6.1 has a crossbow animation that makes it so that crossbowmen shoot first then reload. However since it's SS6.1 I don't know how you'll go about implementing it. http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...se-17-08-08%29

Awesomesauce!

I will surely get into this after 7.0 comes out!

+rep

[UndrState]

I will surely get into this after 7.0 comes out!

lol

but seriously if you get it to work let us know. I will be curious how this works out.

[Nzg]

Yup. Since working at 7.0 isn't even ongoing, and you decide to do it for 6.4 post it. I'll gladly test