Second Modding Summit - 03/03/2014

[wangrin]

WARNINGS

Please, not spam this thread with questions not related to those subjects or complains about CA.

Before posting here, please read :
TW:R2 :
TW:S2 : Total War: Shogun 2 > Total War: Shogun 2 Mod Workshop > [TWS2] Index of Modding Tutorials, Resources & Tools (Last Update: 21 Dec, 2011)

CONTEXT & OBJECTIVES

This thread is intended to collect questions to prepare CA Modding Summit according to the agenda from CraigTW :

10am Welcome to CA by CraigTW, Community Manager and introduction to the new members of the CA community team.

10.15am Rob Bartholomew, Brand Director, discusses modding from a corporate standpoint and our vision for the future.

10.45am Guy Davidson, Coding Manager at Creative Assembly, discusses why our codebase works the way it does. Opportunity for Q&A.

11.45am Jack Lusted discusses how to best mod units and how the AI copes with modded troops.

1.00pm Round table: What’s your experience with our mod tools to date?

2.00pm Round table: What could we do better in terms of modding?

Moreover, after a brief exchange with Nico CA, the French community coordinator, asking him what could be done to "help" them to organize this event, he answer me :

Bonjour wangrin,

Pour l'instant, rassembler les questions que vous avez et les catégoriser (ex : unités, programmation, conception 2D/3D, legacy modding, hors sujet, etc...) est un bon début et nous aidera à estimer les ressources nécessaires pour cet événement.
J'ai déjà regroupé et catégorisé un certain nombre de questions, mais si vous avez un document plus précis, n'hésitez pas à me le faire parvenir.

Nico CA

Translation :

For the time being, collecting your questions and categorizing them (example : units, programming, 2D/3D design, legacy modding, others, etc.) is a good start and will help us to estimate resources needed for the event.
I have already collected and categorized some questions, but if you have a more precise document, don't hesitate do send me it.

So, objectives are :
to list and categorize questions about TW:R2 modding
to list and categorize questions about the use of TW:S2 Assembly Kit tool

ORGANIZATION

The first post underneath will be use to collect questions related to TW:R2.
I propose these categories :

1. Mapping (Campaign Map & Battle Map), 3D modeling & animations
2. Gameplay (Campaign & Battle) : seasons, CAI characters, etc.
3. User Interface (UI, sounds, etc.)
4. File formats : DB, ESF, LUAC, etc.
5. Others

The second post underneath will be use to collect questions related to TW:S2's Assembly Kit.
I propose these categories :

1. CS2 converter & raw models (campaign map & models)
2. BoB : pack creator
3. Unit editor
4. DaVe : db editor
5. TEd : Battlemap editor
6. Others : file formats, luac, etc.

LINKS

TWcenter.net : Modding Summit announced : late January
Totalwar.com : Second Modding Summit announced: Get involved!

MODDING SUMMIT REPORT

MODDING SUMMIT REPORT : PART 1

• CREDITS :
  
  • CA members to kindly receive us and answering to our questions ;
  • Special thanks to Guy D. for his brilliant presentation ;
  • Kinjo, Nico CA and Joey CA to correct my (awful) English
  • .Mitch.,Kinjo, Lionheartx10, Mackles, Noif de Bodemloze, Radious and spartan_warrior
  
  
• NOTES :
  
  • NDLA (Notes De L'Auteur) : Author's notes
  • Blue : answers from CA
  • Violet : author's comments or questions, should be removed from the final version.
  
  

CREATIVE ASSEMBLY : PRESENTATION

1. CA and Modding : fact & feeling
   
   Basing on statistics, CA stated that they have no irrefutable evidence that mods contribute to an increase in sales.
   This doesn’t mean that mods don’t help, it only means that they can’t prove that there is a correlation.
   This perspective of modding not necessary increasing sales is true, but not just at CA. It is true within the video game industry.
   Games like Day Z (Armor 2 mod) and Defence of the Ancients (Warcraft 3 mod) are the rare exceptions to the rule with mods equating to higher sales.
   
   However, developers are in favor of modding (they are also players and they enjoy mods and the creativity of modders).
   CA and developers want to help because they love modding.
   
   
2. The Assembly Kit
   
   The Assembly kit is based on “in-house” development of tools, tools needed to help developers to create the game.
   The first attempt was the TW: S2 Assembly Kit. The next one, the TW: R2 Assembly kit should be more mature.
   
   The actual TW: R2 Assembly kit is a beta version, not the final one.
   
   
3. Jack Lusted’s word
   
   
   1. Documentation
      
      One of the modding community requests is about documentation (file formats, lua sources, etc.).
      Jack reminds us that creating documents need time and that development teams are already very busy.
      Jack will try to provide further documents however we cannot confirm when they will be available.
      CA will do its best to provide documents but cannot guarantee it.
      It all comes down to time management and priorities but after the summit we now have more open discussions with CA about the future of documentation.
      
      
   2. Steam Workshop
      
      The main thrust about the Steam Workshop is that mods should be very easy to use.
      This is the reason why they have add the mod manager, but it is still not perfectly satisfactory.
      So, further work is needed here.
   
   
   

DEVELOPPING A TOTAL WAR GAMES & MODDING by Guy D. (Coding Manager)

Guy D. is Coding Manager, and a TW veteran.
His knowledge of TW development is great and his presentation showed how much complex a TW is.

1. Data
   
   
   1. Data types
      
      Two main data types are used:
      
      • Binaries are used for objects such as models, textures, sounds, etc.
      • Tables (db or data bases) are used for data linked to gameplay.
      
      
      Note that data are sometimes created using third party tools.
      
      
   2. Minimizing data
      
      Minimizing data is one of the main constraints when developing software such as a game.
      It is needed because of technical limits due to software structure (example: 32 bit architecture) as well as to get better performances.
      
      
      • Memory address space limits :
        
        Managing memory address space is one of the main issues of the game now.
        The game is built using 32 bits architecture that limits the amount of memory that can be addressed.
        As the game uses more and bigger data, it becomes more challenging.
        
        
      • File formats :
        
        Multiple file formats, as they increase complexity, are another challenges when developing the game.
        It means you have to create converters for each file formats, and so, have to manage (keeping up to date) many scripts/programs, etc.
        
        Now, CA is trying to decrease the number of file formats.
        So, the .CS2 file format is the main one for game files exporting process through BoB.
        This file format contains many data that are processed by BoB to automatically create files that are used by the game, from models and textures to db tables.
        
        
      • Game startup and battle launching time :
        
        Keeping a reasonable start-up time was and still is an important goal that heavily depends of data optimization.
        For example, firsts ETW versions had a 20mn start-up time.
      
      
      No solutions, no design choices are perfects. All bring pro and cons.
      For example, if .CS2 file format and BoB make development easier, they need a lot of work to keep them up-to-date, allowing them to handle data changes or new data, allowing to fit with development teams’ needs.
      
   
   
2. Total War family tree
   
   From the beginning of the story, 3 TW generations have succeeded one to another:
   
   • TW1 : Shogun and then Medieval TW
   • TW2 : Rome and then Medieval 2 TW
   • TW3 : Empire, Napoleon, Shogun 2 and finally Rome 2
   
   
   
   1. TW3 generation :
      
      TW3 generation had been create by CA as a versatile architecture. Proof is that this game engine generation succeeded to accept modifications added since Empire: TW.
      
      It is important to note that TW game is based on a set of different game engines, each one having its on specific functions. These game engines interact among each other through sets of data.
      This modular architecture allows upgrading the game by successive modifications, avoiding a whole change.
      
      For example, the « warscape engine » is the graphic engine name and is only one of the game engines.
      
      
      1. TW3 generation goals
         
         The new game engine was developed to meet following requirements:
         
         • Decrease game startup time ;
         • Increasing moddability (indeed ^^) ;
         • Increasing game complexity ;
         • Adding more data ;
         
         
      2. Game development process
         
         Guy D. presents us several flowcharts (data stream schemas) to point out the complexity level reached when developing the game.
         
         Several diagrams, such as the one describing how sounds are “processed” was particularly explicit, clearly showing the complexity of process and the number of data involved.
         
         The startpos likely reach a peak of complexity, certainly because of the great number of data interacting with each other’s. But this subject/topic was explained during the CAI (Campaign AI) team presentation and discussions.
         
         
      3. « Modding tools » : a common goal for modders and developers
         
         CA develops its own development tools and the main goal is to ease game development.
         
         However, developing such « in-house » tools is not an easy task:
         
         • Developing tools need time and human resource ;
         • Game design is in constant evolution, data and process being quite constantly modified. Due to this context, it is essential to constantly keeping tools « up to date », and so, supporting permanent (re)programming work.
         
         
         CA tell us about some example of development tools and process evolution:
         
         
         • From Excel spreadsheet to a database front-end to process data, and, in the future, an automated referential integrity to automatically detect errors or duplicated data in databases.
         • Uses of .xml file format and binaries.
           (NDLA : xml is a language that greatly ease automated exchange of complex data)
         • Developing exporters
         • Developing BoB, the key tool for game’s files creation process :
           
           • The need for BoB come from the great difficulty to edit ETW data (« a pain in the ass » said a developer ^^).
           • BoB was developed to automatically create files used by the game from raw data created by development teams.
             The key idea is to only work on raw data, re-creating game’s files each time raw files are modified instead of editing/modifying in-game data.
           • BoB is a very complex tool that must be able to evolve and adapt to all modifications or additions to file formats during game development.
           
           
         
         
      
      
   2. Permanent change
      
      Modifications during development phase impact game’s code, and regularly, several part must be rewrite.
      
      This « permanent change » is opposed to the need of stability for development tools because it means to regularly modify tools code.
      
      For example, database schemas are regularly modified from patch to patch.
      Peoples playing with mods can understand the problem, looking at how these modification impact mods each time a new patch is released.
      
      Same for BoB that must be adapted each time new data or file formats are modified or added to the game.
      
      
   3. TW future
      
      Major axes of evolution are:
      
      • Increasing data size and complexity
        
        • Example : being able to process data using parallel threads, something that appears to be quite difficult to program
        
        
      • Evolving from 32 bits architecture to 64 bits architecture to solve memory addressing issues (NDLA : quite likely one of the biggest challenge today).
      • Supporting multi-OS : Windows,Linux (Steam OS).
      
      
   
   

MODDING SUMMIT PART 2 : Q&A

1. PRESENTING MODDING TOOLS par Steven L. (Tool Q&A)
   
   1. Steam Workshop
   2. BoB
      
      Note : see chapter 3.2 for more informations about BoB
      
      BoB is the main development tool. Its function is to convert raw data from development teams to game data and pack file formats.
      
      Rules.bob files: CA put in a functionality that seems to have been missed by modders.
      Rule.bob files can be used to define folders where raw data can be stored.
      Doing so, it makes it possible to define different rule.bob when you have to manage different mods and create different .pack.
      Rule.bob files are likely a domain to explore.
      
      
   3. TWeak
      
      • Dave
      • Unit Editor
      
      
   
   
2. Q&A
   
   1. The game
      
      1. Splitting Startpos
         Q: Would it be possible to split the startpos into several files to ease modification and understanding ?
         A: Startpos data files are interlinked. Splitting the startpos into sub-element would be make things too much complex.
         
         
      2. Scripting
         
         • Adding new functionalities through scripting
           Q : Would it be possible to add new functionalities to the game using script ?
           We would need some more lua commands.
           A : No, the game is already complex and adding more functionalities through script would need more work and could add instability issues..
           
           (NDLA : maybe is it possible to adapt WALI (T.C. and taw tools) to create some new functionalities, but AI will not be able to handle them).
           
           
         • Uncompiled LUA sources
           Q : Would it be possible to release uncompiled LUA sources.
           (NDLA : LUA is a language use to create scripts and other codes such as about UI).
           A : Guy D. answer was “That could be possible”
         
         
      3. User Interface (UI)
         Q : Would it be possible to modify UI and even add new functionalities/things ?
         A : A UI developer confirmed that it is possible to modify UI appearance. This means you are able to modify textures and the UI layout/placement.
         But, it is not possible to add new UI linked to new functionalities.
         
         CA could eventually provide a UI placement tool. But we agreed that being able to rework UI layout wasn’t a top priority.
         
         
      4. Sounds (.wem)
         Q : What CA could do to allow the modding ofhelp us mod game soundtracks ?
         Up until now, it is not possible to modify the new sound file format, “.wem”.
         This file format is a proprietary one, tied to Wwise (Audiokinetic).
         Wwise is a costly tools to purchase : product pricing
         But Audiokinetic company allows free licensing for non-commercial projects, but it there needs to be an agreement between both companies.
         A : CA confirmed they use a new third party tool, Wwise, to create soundtracks for TW:R2.
         A side effect is to makes impossible the modification of soundtrack without Wwise.
         They have noted the need for an agreement between CA and Audiokinetic to allow modders to use Wwise for free, allowing them to mod soundtracks.
         CA will work on contacting Audiokinetic to see if an agreement can be arranged.
         
         CA will contact Audiokinetic to try to find an agreement.
         
         
      5. DB tables & Patches
         Q : Is it possible to add a db tables changelog to patch notes ?
         Most of the time, when anew patch is released, it breaks mods because of db tables modifications.
         This can be a very difficult process for modders because they have to figure out what db were modified.
         A : CA should add « db tables changelog », pointing modifications, to next and future patches to ease modders work.
         
         
      6. Debug tools
         Q : Would it be possible to release debug tools to help modders to understand when their mods crashes or generate errors ?
         A: Two debug toolset, using console mode have been created
         But, they are difficult to use and to analyze logs they generate, because of the number of data/parameters checked.
         Moreover, they wouldn’t be that stable (Guy D. referred to a crash during a TW: R2 show).
         
         It is not planned to release these tools.
         
         
      7. Unit formations
         Q : Is it possible to modify or create unit formations ?
         A : It is not possible to create or even modify existing unit formations, because such features are deeply linked to BAI (Battle AI), and parameters used by AI to decide what formation to use are hardcoded.
         Allowing modification of formations would need to rework too much code and would be considered as too costly.
         
         (NDLA : for future TW, would it be possible to rework formation system to allow to add or modify them ?
         For instance, converting hardcoded parameters use by AI into variables that could be defined in special db tables, allowing modifying and even adding new formations)
         
         
      8. Animations (axe / mace)
         Q : Is it possible to replace animations used for axes and masses that are still using sword animations, by proper new animations ?
         A : It is possible :
         
         • Animation have to be created using Maya 2013 or Motion Builder 2009/2010/2012/2013;
         • Animation can be then exported using Assembly Kit exporter for Maya or Motion Builder, depending of the software you use, and then processed using BoB;
         • Integrate animations to the game (.anim > animation fragment > animations tables (.txt)).
         
         (NDLA : Why animations are defined in a .txt « tables » and not as a db tables ?)
         
         
      9. Modifying the number of men in a unit :
         Q : It look like that modifying the number of men per unit (through db tables ?) doesn’t work in game.
         A : Number of men in unit are defined in db tables but also in startpos for existing units. It could beis necessary to also modify startpos too.
         To test this, when a new unit is created, did it get the right number of men?
         
         
      10. Animals’ textures
          Q : Animals’ textures, especially camels and dogs, look low quality and pixelated, even after being replaced with high resolution textures.
          Is it linked to game optimization and is it possible to bypass this limitation?
          A : ? (NDLA : I didn’t hear the answer)
          
          
      11. Fx shaders
          Q : I asked about the .fxc (compiled shader files), we'd obviously need the uncompiled versions, but the fact that maybe about one or two people at max would use them meant it wasn't/isn't an important topic at all.
          We already have 3ds max exporters. There won't be any tools to convert from a game model to something like 3ds max format, as they don't exist, CA don't need them as they have the originals. No we won't be getting the originals either, that would be like 200gb of content all in all (HunterWolf)
          A :
          
          
      12. Matching model parts
          Q : The « coolus helmet » model provided with the Assembly Kit doesn’t match with others roman heads.
          A : The helmet provided could be a previous model and not a final one. Nevertheless, it is possible to modify it, so it will match with heads.
          It is important to note that not all models of the game match with all others. It will be necessary to adapt models.
          
          (NDLA : subsidiary question – modders (modelers) need a tool to export models from the game to a file format that can be use by 3d software to modify them. To do so, providing file format informations would help tools creators. The other possibility is to provide modders with a « .max model » library)
          
          
      13. Skeletons
          Q : Is it possible to add new skeletons in game ?
          A : Must be tested..
          Skeletons are defined in db tables (battle_skeletons).
          Adding new skeletons means to add new animations too.
          
          (NDLA : is it possible to get some documentation about this subject ?
          
          • Link between model and db table that define skeletons;
          • Correctly naming bones in 3ds max/Maya skeleton is it sufficient or not to create a new skeleton ?
          • How BoB would handle a new skeleton?)
          
          
      14. Campaign and CAI
          
          Q1 : startpos database schema is mostly unknown. So, it is quite difficult to understand effects from various parameters, even after long and boring tests.
          Would it be possible to release documents about startpos parameters and theirs effects?
          A1 : ? (NDLA : didn’t heard / understood / note the answer)
          
          
          Q2 : Modifying startpos parameters do not necessarily results to anticipated effects.
          A2 : Parameters effects are relatives. CAI reactions are determined by several parameters and modifying only one of them will not be significant enough.
          
          
          Q3 : Is it possible to force a faction to protect its capital and/or avoid major factions to be destroyed too quickly?
          A3 : Patch 9 (or 10) should reduce this issue. However, the game being a dynamic environment, it is possible that major factions still be destroyed.
          
          
          Q4 : relative strength from autoresolve simulation and these displayed in battle are sometime different.
          A4 : (NDLA : didn’t understand / note the answer)
          
          
          Q5 : Is it possible to add new cultures and new factions ?
          A5 : The number of factions is not limited but some parameters are maybe forgotten or wrongly filled by modders.
          It is possible to add sub-cultures.
          The answer is less clear for cultures. It seems that things are more complex here.
          
          
          Q6 : Is it possible to modify ownership of regions to a province ?
          A6 : probably yes, but a province cannot handle more than 4 regions
          
          
      15. Diplomacy
          
          Q : Will CA modify diplomacy, for instance adding « region trade/exchange » ?
          A : No
          
          
      16. War fleet vs Transport fleet
          
          Q : Land armies can be automatically transformed into transport fleets and are able to destroy true war fleets.
          A : Transport ship will be modified with patch 10 or a future patch. They will be weaker than warships and move slower.
      
      
   2. Assembly Kit Tools
      
      1. CS2 exporter
      2. EFlines
         
         CA confirms to use a 3ds max plugin to create EFlines.
         The plugin was forgotten when releasing TW :S2 Assembly kit, but CA will release it.
         
         (NDLA : the question was if CA will release the plugin for both TW:S2 and TW:R2 Assembly Kit.
         A later answer comes from CA (Jack Lusted). If CA will likely provide what is needed for TW:R2 Assembly Kit, No plugin will be release for TW:S2 Assembly Kit.)
         
         CA answer:
         L’Assembly Kit de ROME II est toujours en phase beta et suite au Modding Summit que nous avons eu le mois dernier, nous avons réalisé qu’il y a de nombreuses requêtes et plus de temps à investir dans ce domaine afin d’aider les moddeurs. Comme dans tout environnement de production, nous ferons face à des contraintes techniques et de temps, ainsi des décisions parfois difficiles devront être prises.
         
         En raison du temps et des efforts que nous allons investir dans cet Assembly Kit pour ROME II, il nous sera plus difficile de répondre aux attentes et demandes des moddeurs utilisant l’Assembly Kit des précédents opus (tel que Shogun 2). En revanche, connaitre ces besoins et manques nous permettra de fournir les ressources et plugins dont les moddeurs ont besoin pour ROME II.
         
         A: The TW :R2 Assembly Kit is still in beta stage and, following the Moding Summit we organized last month, we realized we have to spend more time in this domain to help modders, because of the numerous requests we noted.
         As in any production environment, we have to face technical and time constraints, and so, decisions, sometime difficult ones, must be taken.
         
         Due to time and efforts we will invest in TW:R2 Assembly Kit, it will be difficult to respond to expectations and requests from modders using the previous Assembly Kit (TW:S2 one).
         On the other hand, knowing these needs and lack of functionalities will help us to provide resources and plugins needed by modders for TW:R2.
         
         
      3. Particles models
         
         One of the requests was about the possibility to create new particles models.
         CA confirms they use a dedicated tool, but it cannot be released.
         This tool is complex and difficult to use without an extensive documentation.
         
         
      4. More raw models
         
         As previously pointed out, models provided as examples are insufficient to understand and handle most, if not all, cases, such as how to place artillery on a wall and on board of ships, how to create sails, etc.
         
         CA noted it and new models should be provided.
         
         (NDLA : raw models will be provided for both TW:S2 and TW:R2 or only TW:R2.
         CA answer : look at 6.2.1.1)
         
         Models needed are:
         
         • TW :S2 models :
           
           • coastal_batteries_small : placing artillery on/in buildings
           • castle_01_gate : castle gate structure
           • tower_stone_04 : tower structure
           • chiyodagata et chiyodagata2 : ship with guns and ship’s propeller
           • caravel : ship with guns and sails
           
           
         • TW :R2 models :
           
           • To do
           
           
         
         
      5. TeD
         
         Needed by modders, but not yet available.
         
         
      6. Campaign Map tool
         
         Needed by modders, but not yet available.
         
         
      7. Multilanguage
         
         Q : Several modders requested to include multi-language to modding tools for non-english speakers.
         A : CA cannot positively answer to this request (it was a heart-felt cry ^^).
         Managing loc files is quite complex with the game and using a similar system for modding tools was not planned.
         Adding it to modding tools is too costly compare to the number of peoples who could really benefit from it.
      
      
   
   

[wangrin]

TW:R2 QUESTIONS

TW:R2 MODDING QUESTIONS

MAPPING (CAMPAIGN & BATTLE), 3D MODELING & ANIMATIONS

Questions related to :

• Campaign map (mapping)
• Battle map (mapping)
• 3d models (units, equipments, engines, buildings & ships)
• animations

are collected here.

#1 : {3d models} Skeletons

Is it possible to create our own skeletons and import them in game ? It look like it is possible, looking at db tables such as battle_skeletons tables. Could you confirm this ?

GAMEPLAY (CAMPAIGN & BATTLE)

Questions related to gameplay :

• CAI (Campaign Artificial Intelligence)
• BAI (Battle Artificial Intelligence)
• Campaign Mechanics (technologies, cities, etc.)
• Battle Mechanics (formations, etc.)

are collected here.

#1 : {Campaign Mechanics} moddability

Cultures & religions : Possibility to modify/add religions Possibility to create emergent religions Mechanism and triggers to influence religions (?) Factions : Adding new factions (and not only modifying existing ones) Politics : Adding Family Trees through modding Modifying TWR2 politic system Other : Modifying/Influencing triggers and decisions Modifying/adding campaign scripts source : post #22

#2 : {Battle Mechanics} moddability

Several aspects of battle are not moddable or not really understood : Possibility to mod formations and formation A to formation B transition even if it means to create animations ; Explaining how BAI work, how it handle parameters and what parameters ; Possibility to mod BAI, maybe through an SDK (Software Development Kit) #36

USER INTERFACE & ENVIRONMENT

Questions related to User Interface & environment :

• User interfaces (icons, menus, ergonomy, etc.)
• Sounds
• ?

are collected here.

#1 : User Interface Editor

The possibility to modify the user interface need to edit lua or even luac code. It could be interesting to create an User Interface Editor to allow modders to create their own for mods. This means to be able to create scroll bar menu for example, or move windows, etc. At least, documents bout UI would be welcome.

#2 : .wem file format - ANSWERED - Wwise available

It had been impossible to modify or create new music file for TW:R2. This issue is tied to .wem files. Trying to add new .wem music files lead to a "missing riff" error. It was extensively discussed here : Audio files .WEM [QUOTE=omzdog;13501345]I've been in contact with hcs, the guy that made the ww2ogg.exe. He's a busy man and took a glance at some of the .wems saying: It is "encrypted", and it seems like a very simple scheme, a lot of structure (RIFF header and probably seek tables) shows through the XORing. Not understood yet to the point where I can meaningfully decrypt it. So far, the key stream starts with F2 60 59 BF A6 67 BB B0 82 DD 24 BA 6C 14 62 31 It appears that each of these is a 32-bit little endian integer, this appears to repeat for the next 16 bytes with a constant (?) added to each. For the first column (0-3) it looks like around -0xA692000 and for the last column I'm seeing 0x14D5000 or so. You will note that there is a nice -8x relationship between these, so there is probably some simpler bit twiddling going on that I haven't penetrated yet. So he's breaking down the executable bit by bit. This is what the guy over at audiokinetic told me We don't have a modding agreement with Creative Assembly / SEGA on this game, so you'd have to talk with them if you actually wanted to access the Wwise project and modify the project content. However, if you're looking to play around with .wem files, you might be able to tinker with just the free version on our website. I honestly don't know if it would work well, but the .wem files are streaming audio files, and they're modified .wavs, altered through Wwise to be more useful in games. It's possible (again, no guarantees) that you could use the free version of Wwise, add in the wavs you want to insert into the game, and then generate new .wem files that you then replace in the game's folders. At minimum, they'd have to have the same names as the original files, and possibly there would be some metadata in them that is only accessible in the original project (so it might not work at all), but it's worth a shot if you just want to tinker around. Sorry I couldn't be more help, but it's not something we really get involved in if the game wasn't designed to be moddable on the audio side from the get-go (like Saint's Row, for example). CA ANSWER : Wwise As promised during the Modding Summit, CA reach an agreement with Audiokinetic to allow TW modders to use Wwise to create music mods : Hello We are very happy to announce that It is now possible to mod the music in Total War: ROME II! The very cool guys at AudioKinetic have kindly allowed ROME II modders to use Wwise 2013.1.1 and you can now mod in your own music to your hearts content. Don’t forget that you shouldn’t infringe on anyone else’s copyright when modding Total War, but we expect to see some great original compositions on Steam Workshop soon! Find out more here: http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Wwise_-_Audio_Modding Since the Modding Summit held earlier this year, we invited a few members of the modding community from all over the world to sit with us in the studio and discuss the world of mods. During this summit we were able to discuss; our current tools and how they can be used, questions from the forums to our devs and some project ideas we could work together to achieve. While we at CA can’t promise that we can make all of their wildest modding dreams come true, we have been working hard with them behind the scenes to make music modding a reality, and have pooled their abilities to bring you this excellent mod which features the original ROME: Total War soundtrack! If you’d like to add this mod to your game please follow the link below, and you’ll also see all of the modders that helped make this a reality http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfile.../?id=263097925 Thanks guys, Joey Source : ROME II Music Modding Modders will find informations as well as download link here : Total War Wiki : Wwise - Audio Modding But remember that you have to take care about copyrights when you use soundtracks ! Please remember that you can only modify the game with content that you own the copyright to and must not include any material that infringes the IP property or copyright of any other company or individual – as per the terms set out by the ROME II EULA you accepted on installation of the game.

FILE FORMATS

Questions about file formats and process :

• DB tables
• ESF files
• luac scripts
• etc.

are collected here.

#1 : File formats data

Would it be possible to release file format data to modders to save time to create modding tools.

#2 : lua commands

A complete list of lua commands, conditions, effects and events, each with a minimal description, like the ones released for NTW/TW:S2 would be welcome. Example : --------------------------------------------- Command: add_restricted_unit_record Description: Stop a unit type from being avaliable Usage: add_restricted_unit_record("unit_key") Author: --------------------------------------------- Condition: BattleIsLandConflict Parameters: No parameters needed Description: Returns true if battle is being fought on land (this will NOT return true for fort battles) Example Usage: BattleIsLandConflict() Author: --------------------------------------------- Effect: ancillary Parameters: ancillary record key Description: Causes an ancillary to be created and attached to the character Example Usage: effect.ancillary("mayor") Author: --------------------------------------------- Event: DuelFought Description: A duel has completed Context: Character Author: --------------------------------------------- Example of LUA commands wanted : effect.ancillary() effect.advice() effect.remove_ancillary() effect.suspend_contextual_advice() effect.adjust_treasury() effect.advance_contextual_advice_thread() effect.trait() effect.historical_character() effect.add_agent_experience() effect.advance_scripted_advice_thread() effect.add_military_force_experience() effect.advance_scripted_advice_thread_located() effect.historical_event() effect.rewind_scripted_advice() effect.OpenBrowser() effect.remove_trait()

#3 : LUA compiler & raw LUA files

Would it be possible to release a LUA compiler to create LUAC files. And would it be possible to release LUA uncompiled files to use them as a base for modificiations.

OTHERS

Uncategorized questions are collected here.

#1 : Normalized file formats

Would it be possible to use "normalized" or even open file formats for 3d models export/import tools ? This could allow more flexibility for modders to use software of their own choice (3ds max, Maya, Blender, Cine4D, etc.).

#2 : Debugging tool & Console Commands

Modding lead often to bugs and errors. Developping a debugging tool would help to understand where error occurs to correct them. Console command would be welcome to to quickly modify some parameters. Most wanted command are :

#3 : Debugging tool & Console Commands

loading/unloading dynamically mods : load <mymod>.pack unload <mymod>.pack editing/displaying data using lua command Getvar RRR_RomeIndustrialisation Setvar RRR_RomeIndustrialisation 22 [/CODE]

#4 : splitting startpos

Single startpos file make impossible to allow multiple mods wich edit it. An improvement would be to split the original startpos file into several sets. Startpos sets could work like .pack. source : daniu #67 Here's an improvement suggestion: Allow the startpos to be split into several files. With the single startpos, it's impossible to have several mods which edit it. The biggest part of the startpos is zipped content; I don't think it would be impossible to instead of the raw binary data have it contain files with that data, split into sets. To mod it, you would be able to unpack it, and if an unpacked version is available, the game loads that. This way, if several mods edit different files, they could stay compatible with each other.

TW:R2 ASSEMBLY KIT FEEDBACK

CS2 EXPORTER & RAW MODELS

• CS2 exporter & raw models related to unit & equipments modeling
• CS2 exporter & raw models related to engine modeling
• CS2 exporter & raw models related to ship modeling

are collected here.

#1 : {3d models} issue with directX shaders

ISSUE : Bug with textures when creating custom new model

#2 : {3d models} issue with directX shaders

Effect : impossible to process new model exported as CS2 through BoB Description : missing "standard_lighting_R2_3.fx" file Textures and shaders references point to a T drive, T drive that likely refers to a drive existing in CA developpers environment. CA probably try to fix this by giving us another shader(fx) file called "ca_shader.fx" but 3ds max crash when testing Some "ca_shader.fx" point to the T drive too. Notes : CA models use DirectX shaders and not normal ones. User environment : 3ds max 2013 x64 Sources : Warman222 - [Resource] Rome II rigid_model_v2 editor/ exporter ms3d post #61 post #64 post #65 post #67 post #68 post #71 NOTE : The only problem is the missing shader is that it will not be automatically loaded when you open a scene in 3MAKS. More on what is not affected, instead to shaders in the stage need to load the shader that is provided in the folder exporter.

#3 : {3d models} Model editor

NEED : Unit editor allowing to[/list][*]open, assemble and tune meshes from ingame models[*]export game models (rigid_model_v2, cs2.parsed, etc.) to useful 3d file formats (.fbx, .max, .dae, etc.) allowing to modify them[/list] A good example is openBRF use by Mount&Blade modding community : openBRF for Mount & Blade Source : #47 from HunterWolf

BoB

Feedback & questions related to the use of BoB (tool allowing to create pack file) are collected here.

DAvE

Feedback & questions related to the use of DaVe (tool allowing to edit db tables) are collected here.

#1 : UPDATING DB SCHEMA IN PARALLEL OF PATCHES

DAvE use a source xml data provided with Assembly Kit. But this document has not been updated when the game was patched and db schema modified. Is it possible that CA provide a db schema update for DAvE (Assembly Kit) in parallel with game patches to update DAvE.

#2 : CONNECTING TO MULTIPLE DATABASE

DAvE seems to have the possibility to connect to multiple database. Could this be expanded to a system similar to PFM's MyMod functionality that allow support for separate mods. Functionnalities needed :

DAvE

#2 : CONNECTING TO MULTIPLE DATABASE

creating new working database (copy raw data for editing) selecting which database to connect (one for each mod) selecting which working data to pack source : #51 from crzyrndm

Tweak

Feedback & questions related to the use of Tweak (tool allowing to create pack file) are collected here.

Others

Feedback & questions related to others issues or suggestions

#1 : Multiple language support

As it seems that CA use QT to create tools such as Tweak or DAvE, would it be possible to add a _EN.ts files to the Assembly Kit. source : #63 by HunterWolf

[wangrin]

TW:S2 ASSEMBLY KIT FEEDBACK & QUESTIONS

CS2 EXPORTER & RAW MODELS

Feedback & questions related to :

• CS2 exporter & raw models related to campaign mapping
• CS2 exporter & raw models related to unit & equipments modeling
• CS2 exporter & raw models related to engine modeling
• CS2 exporter & raw models related to building modeling
• CS2 exporter & raw models related to ship modeling

are collected here.

#1 : {Buildings} Creating EFlines

EFlines are use to place men in buildings. No tools had been released to create EFlines, moreover EFlines objects in .max models are not real EFlines (that are splines), but only objects use to materialized EFlines. EFlines are defined in *_tech.xml files such as Stronghold_temple_building_tech.xml and the problem is to create this xml file that contains coordinates, direction and type for each EFlines. As a test, I’ve created EFlines for a redoubt model. First, I created splines where I wanted to place EFlines. Then, I checked their coordinates and copy/pasted them in an excel document. The excel document was also used to calculate direction and define type. Finally, I created xml file “by hand”. It’s a very long and boring process that could be automated. But I’m not able to write script nor plugin for 3ds max. I’m quite sure that CA use a tool to create EFlines. It would be kind if CA could provided it. Link : [Resource] Examining raw building models

#2 : {Buildings} How to place artillery

Referring to “Stronghold_temple_building_tech.xml”, I’ve found this : <ef_artillery_info> </ef_artillery_info> But we have no clues about this. Maybe is it possible that artillery is placed by using a system similar to EFlines, but, as we have no example of building with artillery, it is impossible to be sure nor to know how it work. We would need a raw model of a building with guns such as coastal battery to understand how to place guns.

#3 : {Ships} How to place artillery

The problem with ship is of same nature, we have no clue about how to place cannons. NOTE : examining models_naval table, I've found this "pattern" for cannons : cannon_01 deck_02 x1 = -5.569 z1 = 6.530 y1 = 10.753 x2 = -5.820 z2 = 6.530 y2 = 10.753 cannon_02 deck_02 x1 = -5.676 z1 = 6.530 y1 = -7.237 x2 = -5.927 z2 = 6.530 y2 = -7.237 cannon_03 deck_01 x1 = -7.308 z1 = 3.106 y1 = 4.221 x2 = -7.559 z2 = 3.106 y2 = 4.221 cannon_04 deck_01 x1 = -7.192 z1 = 3.106 y1 = 8.630 x2 = -7.443 z2 = 3.106 y2 = 8.630 cannon_05 deck_01 x1 = -7.352 z1 = 3.203 y1 = -5.265 x2 = -7.603 z2 = 3.203 y2 = -5.265 cannon_06 deck_01 x1 = -7.356 z1 = 3.155 y1 = -0.850 x2 = -7.608 z2 = 3.155 y2 = -0.850 cannon_07 deck_01 x1 = 7.383 z1 = 3.203 y1 = -5.265 x2 = 7.635 z2 = 3.203 y2 = -5.265 cannon_08 deck_01 x1 = 7.379 z1 = 3.155 y1 = -0.850 x2 = 7.631 z2 = 3.155 y2 = -0.850 cannon_09 deck_01 x1 = 7.326 z1 = 3.106 y1 = 4.221 x2 = 7.578 z2 = 3.106 y2 = 4.221 cannon_10 deck_01 x1 = 7.230 z1 = 3.106 y1 = 8.630 x2 = 7.482 z2 = 3.106 y2 = 8.630 cannon_11 deck_02 x1 = 5.672 z1 = 6.530 y1 = -7.237 x2 = 5.924 z2 = 6.530 y2 = -7.237 cannon_12 deck_02 x1 = 5.618 z1 = 6.530 y1 = 10.753 x2 = 5.870 z2 = 6.530 y2 = 10.753 Could it be possible that cannon fields look like this : <cannon> <cannon name = "cannon 01"> <deck = 02> <vertex x=".. . ......", y=".. . ......", z=".. . ......"> <vertex x=".. . ......", y=".. . ......", z=".. . ......"> </cannon> But we still need to know how CA really format this. Giving us some more ships raw models would greetly help us. I propose : cannon_bune chiyodagata chiyodagata_2 (one of the chiyodagata is a torpedo boat, could be very interesting to create submarine-like for a WWI mod... ) black_ship (mostly for sails)

#4 : {Buildings} CS2 exporter & raw models

Having completed the model of redoubt, I’ve tried the CS2 converter to create CS file. But conversion didn’t work. To be sure that problem didn’t come from my model, I’ve used CS2 converter with .max model provided by CA. None of building models can be converted to CS2 file. Moreover, when loading a .max building model in 3ds max, we can see an error message about building_attribure.mcr script. You will have to note that the process here is : The problem is that.max models provided with Assembly Kit have been saved in a .max posterior to 2010 (you have to open them user 3ds max 2012 or 2013) when CS2 exporter work only with 3ds max 2009 and 2010... So, we have to convert .max models to old .max (2010) or .max (2009) file format and, of course, install two version of 3ds max on ours computers. Moreover, it is not possible to legally install 3ds max 2009 and 2010 now, as they have been removed from Autodesk Education Community program... This situation will lead to the death of modeling for TW:S2. An other problem is that several .max models doesn't work. This is maybe a consequence of the .max (2012 ?) to .max (2010) conversion, or not. Did you have test Assembly Kit CS2 converter, scripts and raw models you have provided with the TW:S2 Assembly Kit ? Will you upgrade CS2 exporter and its scripts to newer 3ds max version or release source code to allow tool creator to do this job ?

#5 : {units & engines} Animations

Does CS2 exporter handle animation (is it possible to export animation through CS2 exporter) ? If not, what tool do you use to export animations and is it possible to release it ?

#6 : {raw materials} up to date files

It seems that raw files, particularly db ones are not up to date since Otomo pack. Doing this, DaVe is useless and it is better to use PFM. Will CA upgrade raw files to be up to date with latest TWS2 version ?

#7 : {campaign map} modding radar map coverage

The radar map do not adapt when creating a bigger campaign map, and remains the same size Result, icons are all at the wrong place. Some information regarding how to change the area the radar covers on the campaign map in Shogun 2 would be helpful. At present even if you make the map bigger the radar remains the same size, so all the icons are in the wrong place.

Unit Editor

Feedback & questions related to the use of the Unit Editor are collected here.

BoB

Feedback & questions related to the use of BoB (tool allowing to create pack file) are collected here.

DaVe

Feedback & questions related to the use of DaVe (tool allowing to edit db tables) are collected here.

db schema update with patch

DAvE use a source xml data provided with Assembly Kit. But this document has not been updated when the game was patched and db schema modified. Is it possible that CA provide a db schema update for DAvE (Assembly Kit) in parallel with game patches

TEd

Feedback & questions related to the use of TEd (tool allowing to create battlemaps) are collected here.

Others

Uncategorized questions are collected here.

#1 : models_naval tables

Would it be possible to release models_naval tables file formats. This is tied to logic.xlm, but it will save some time to create an editor for this very complex tables. The idea would be to create an editor to convert models_naval tables to .fbx (or any other 3d file format such as .max) back and forth to modify them. Link : [Resource] Examining models_naval tables and CA's ship model

#2 : LUA compiler & raw LUA files

Would it be possible to release a LUA compiler to create LUAC files. And would it be possible to release LUA uncompiled files to use them as a base for modificiations.

#3: Factions

Up until now, it seems that nobdy has found how to add true new faction (and not only modifying existing one). Is it possible to add new factions and how ? This is a very important problem for complete overhaul mods.

#4: Animation exporter

Will it be possible to release an exporter for animation for TW:S2 ?

[manolops3]

i have questions to the cs2 exporter and raw models .
when we want to integrate new ships with completely new models into the game.
we need examples to know how to make this right.
but CA only provided a example of the bow_kobaya with Assembly Kit.
we need to know how to place cannons right on a ship.
so it would be very helpful to have a model-example including the logic.xml files related to the ship-models.for ships like cannon-bune,ataka-bune or nihon-maru .
how we can edit and/or convert the models-naval tables ? or create new ones ?
until now,when we create new eflines,we have to make it by hand,but is there any possibility to create them faster , to make it by hand needs ages and take a lot of energy we could
better use with be creative.

[Ygge]

I'd like to know if it is possible to add new playable factions, not just replacing the current ones for Shogun 2.

[Destin Faroda]

I would love to know if they can add the following unit stats to the next games:
- Attack power: how much damage the unit's weapon causes. Melee attack should be renamed to hit chance.
- Dismounted Defense: the same as defense, but while on foot. Infantry can evade attacks with sidesteps and evasive maneuvers. Cavalry can't. Therefore, if cavalry dismounts, they too should be able to benefit from a better defense value.

When do they intend to fix Shogun 2 (AI problems, the infamous sound bug etc.)?

Will they release an up-to-date version of the Assembly Kit (with Otomo support) for Shogun 2?

[hunharibo]

Will they release proper 3d model importer/exporter from/to something industry standard like fbx with animation/skeleton support? This would be of utmost importance if we ever dream of getting unique looking units into the game that are not hacked and sewn together from existing parts. A 3ds max script would be preferable, but anything works, really. Even a standalone application that converts fbx to rigidmodel format and back.
Detailed documentation on ESF. We can see whats in there, but its anyone's sophisticated guess what some values mean.
Campaign mapping. Adding/removing settlements, creating new landmass or limiting existing one (kind of like what they do with Ceaser expansion).

[wangrin]

I've upgraded TW:S2 Assembly Kit questions.
It's all about CS2 exporter and raw models.

I would love to know if they can add the following unit stats to the next games:
- Attack power: how much damage the unit's weapon causes. Melee attack should be renamed to hit chance.
- Dismounted Defence: the same as defence, but while on foot. Infantry can evade attacks with sidesteps and evasive manoeuvres. Cavalry can't. Therefore, if cavalry dismounts, they too should be able to benefit from a better defence value.

When do they intend to fix Shogun 2 (AI problems, the infamous sound bug etc.)?

Will they release an up-to-date version of the Assembly Kit (with Otomo support) for Shogun 2?

Questions about TW:R2 are about modding, not game design (at least, it's how I understand your questions, maybe I am mistaking, English isn't my mother tongue...).
Questions about TW:S2 are about Assembly Kit feedback.

Question about upgrading TW:S2 Assembly Kit is valid and a very important concern.

Will they release proper 3d model importer/exporter from/to something industry standard like fbx with animation/skeleton support? This would be of utmost importance if we ever dream of getting unique looking units into the game that are not hacked and sewn together from existing parts. A 3ds max script would be preferable, but anything works, really. Even a standalone application that converts fbx to rigidmodel format and back.
Detailed documentation on ESF. We can see whats in there, but its anyone's sophisticated guess what some values mean.
Campaign mapping. Adding/removing settlements, creating new landmass or limiting existing one (kind of like what they do with Ceaser expansion).

As far as I know, CS2 exporter from TW:S2 Assembly Kit didn't manage exporting animations, but I'm not sure about this as I didn't try it.
I agree with you that a more "open" standard would be better, such as .fbx or .dae rather than .max.
It would be great if they could release file format data, this would help modders community to create their tools too.

Campaign mapping is possible using TW:S2 CS2 exporter. I also hope they will keep this possibility for the future TW:R2 Assembly Kit.

[AngryTitusPullo]

Debugging tools or console command for modding purposes.

[wangrin]

What commands would be the most likely for the console ?
I suppose commands such as in M2TW.

[daniu]

IMO the most important commands for a console from a modding perspective would be

load <mymod>.pack
unload <mymod>.pack

so you can dynamically load/unload your mods for testing, instead of having to restart the game for every change.

[wangrin]

Added.
Thanks

[Aodh Mor]

IMO the most important commands for a console from a modding perspective would be

load <mymod>.pack
unload <mymod>.pack

so you can dynamically load/unload your mods for testing, instead of having to restart the game for every change.

another useful one would be to directly print out and set variables defined in the LUA eg.

Getvar RRR_RomeIndustrialisation
Setvar RRR_RomeIndustrialisation 22

Also, I'd love the limit on traits to be changed into a variable we can change eg.
In the character details panel you only see the three first traits, but in the scrolling list on faction overview, you can scroll through all the characters traits.

Also in general, it would be awesome to have documentation on the LUA, even what arguments all of the functions take, and why exactly some advisor functions give a ctd now, eg.

effect.advice(string.format(RRR_RomeIndustrialisation))
effect.advice(tostring(RRR_RomeIndustrialisation))
effect.advice(RRR_RomeIndustrialisation))

all give CTDs, though I am doing this in college, so my case or syntax may be wrong here, as I'm just giving examples from memory

and then, in a perfect world, we could get a UI Converter and maybe more setting functions in the LUA code, eg. changing add_event_restricted_unit_record() so that it also disables upgrading to those units via retraining, force_diplomacy (I realise there is a function called this in the api atm, but it's not used or documented anywhere, from what I can see)

[Ygge]

What about making new skeletons with the Assembly kit? Is that possible? If not currently possible, could CA make it so? New skeletons could be necessary for total overhaul mods if you want to make non-human soldiers(example: elephants, trolls etc)

[Dude with the Food]

Do they plan on releasing any way of editing the campaign map? And if so, to what extent (moving cities/adding provinces/completely changing the map)?

[crzyrndm]

another useful one would be to directly print out and set variables defined in the LUA

On a related note, while there are bazillions (ok, maybe just a lot ) of conditions available through for the LUA scripting, there are very limited effects one can use for meaningful scripting (and I'm not even sure some of these work as expected).

effect.ancillary()
effect.advice()
effect.remove_ancillary()
effect.suspend_contextual_advice()
effect.adjust_treasury()
effect.advance_contextual_advice_thread()
effect.trait()
effect.historical_character()
effect.add_agent_experience()
effect.advance_scripted_advice_thread()
effect.add_military_force_experience()
effect.advance_scripted_advice_thread_located()
effect.historical_event()
effect.rewind_scripted_advice()
effect.OpenBrowser()
effect.remove_trait()

If there was a way we could add to the available scripting library that would be absolutely amazing.

Failing that, documentation of what is available would also be very nice

@Aodh Mor
You probably need a context reference
eg.
Assuming RRR_RomeIndustrialisation is a variable holding the string you want to print in the advice window

effect.advice(RRR_RomeIndustrialisation,context)

All of the effects I've used so far have required it.

EDIT

CA uses the effect.advance_contextual_advice_thread() which references the tables advice_threads and on to advice_levels. You can find a bunch of examples inside the export_advice.lua file

[.Mitch.]

The Lua implimentation at the end of the day is almost entirely used for the user interface. Things like advice popups and disabling buttons...

I have no doubt there lies true power somewhere though, in the compiled Lua files (.luac) Im sure there could be some stuff that could let us do truly game changing things. Alas no company would in their right mind give access to what is essentially a large proportion of their source code.

Greater scripting abilities aching to the likes of pre-Warscape days is like my wet dream, but you can't do bugger all with Warscapes scripting since Shogun 2, and not much even before that.

I and a friend even embarked on a extremely complex major project to try and give the Lua scripting more power...

Scripting should definitely be a major point at the summit, I'd go so far as to say even the 2nd biggest topic behind "wtf have you done to sound modding". If I'm lucky enough to go again in January I will fight the fight for more scripting shiz!!!

[crzyrndm]

Yea, I know (I did find the hundred odd functions using the game scripting interface, but most are either unreliable, UI related, or performing functionality thats normally done through db). But I can hope can't I

As far as the list of R2 related subjects that I think would be important assuming all functionality from the assembly kit returns (fingers crossed, with less bugs): Music/sound (because wut), debug functionality (proper crash reports...), scripting (documentation, extending functionality), and UI (because wtf were they thinking)

[zackstefy]

Here is a question : Can we edit and make models in Zbrush and after that import them in the game?

Also, I've found this video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH4LZCNuMf8 ..this guy worked on some rome 2 models

[hunharibo]

Soooo, anyone was there today?