An Invitation to any CA Members to Discuss Rome 2 (AKA A Very Long Shot)

[RakeinWaiting]

Hello all,

Like many of you, I have spent some time reading through the forums and, sadly, it is becoming increasingly infected with hate. Even informative threads offering advice and tips are few and far between.

Now, this anger and frustration is not without merit. Like many, I have simply stopped playing Rome 2 until something better comes along. What frustrates me is a lack of answers. Why wern't Sieges better implemented, when they have been part of warscape since Empire? Why does Campaign/Battle AI continue to frustrate, despite all of CAs past experience in this? Why wern't simple things that worked in past games (family trees, trimmed down special abilities) adopted in this game? I guess what I really want to know is what happened between the successful completion of Shogun 2 and the release of Rome 2? How could two similar games released by the same company be so different in quality?

We have answers of course: Time, money, SEGA etc, but, despite the odd statement from CA announcing a patch, a new faction or (strangely) a screenshot, we hear little about why all of the many design/implementation choices were done so poorly. I understand some cannot be addressed (CA cannot say how terrible it is to work for SEGA), but a few answers would be nice.

My friends and I debated some time about even whether to start this thread at all. Patches are coming out constantly, and are steadily improving gameplay. Many fans will point out CA has made statements addressing some of the issues Ive made above. The creation of games is a complex one, with who knows how much drama and marketing going on in the background, stuff CA will not want to talk about. And, this is the big one, CA rarely chats on this forum at all. After people have kicked and screamed over this game, what chance does this little thread have?

In the end, we decided to post it here anyway. If CA remains, as always, silent, then this post can be disregarded and sent to the bottom of the thread page, to be swallowed up by so many rant-threads. If however, CA wants to talk, I mean really wants to just chat with a few fans, they will find here an opportunity to do so safe in the knowledge that (in this fan at least) they will find a chance of reasoned debate and civilized conversation.

It is a long shot, but I hope a CA member will prove me wrong.

Rake.

[GRANTO]

good show rake...+rep

[TheCenturion24]

That's... actually really well said. Good show indeed! I do so wish they could provide us with some explanation, but as you say, I imagine nobody could without getting in trouble with those higher up. It's a no-win scenario, that's for sure.

[Epic]

We're most likely going to get the same sort of response we've been hearing since the launch of Rome 2. Hopefully some of the folks going to the mod summit will be able to grill CA and get some more detailed information out of them. Me personally, I've only put like 11 hours into Rome 2 but hundreds of hours into the previous total wars. The way I see it, we're going to get an expansion like FOTS for Rome 2 a year from now, that will add in everything that was missing. But I'm just worried that it'll either be smaller in scale or set during the downfall of Rome.

[VINC.XXIII]

The way I see it, we're going to get an expansion like FOTS for Rome 2 a year from now, that will add in everything that was missing. But I'm just worried that it'll either be smaller in scale or set during the downfall of Rome.

Thats the logical next. I don't think the map is going to change, because its perfectly fit to Barbarian Invasions. The map would change if never they're going for a re-make of Alexander on their new game: cutting western part, expanding eastern one.
But its pure speculation

[Huberto]

The trick is getting them to talk about what is wrong with the game in terms of how they will change the game and support the game over the next several years. Rather than waste time trying to to get them to admit the game sucks, pin them down on features -- ie. are they willing to revamp certain game features? My hunch is you won't get very far because they are moving on to a stand alone expansion and the Warhammer & MMO crap they are doing.

[Humble Warrior]

The trick is getting them to talk about what is wrong with the game in terms of how they will change the game and support the game over the next several years. Rather than waste time trying to to get them to admit the game sucks, pin them down on features -- ie. are they willing to revamp certain game features? My hunch is you won't get very far because they are moving on to a stand alone expansion and the Warhammer & MMO crap they are doing.

It`s kinda pointless trying to get CA to explain their reasons. Seriously, unless the SEGA boss is a Total war fan sees the game and in a fit of anger demands answers we will likley not know what happened any time soon. And I don`t think the SEGA boss is a TW fan... probably more a Sonic the Hedgehog fan.

Yep. We`re likely to get further pinpointing CA on what they really mean to do in fixing the game. However, this is a pain as well, as CA love stringing people along (for years if need be) on `maybe`, `we`ll look in to`, possibly` carrot-on-a-stick phrases that never pan out. It`s like when they said they `might` go back and fix Empire... They never did, but it strings people along... perhaps in the hope of squeezing that extra sale.

Getting real, substantial, reliable, answers from Ca is actually incredibly hard.

[Radzeer]

The trick is getting them to talk about what is wrong with the game in terms of how they will change the game and support the game over the next several years. Rather than waste time trying to to get them to admit the game sucks, pin them down on features -- ie. are they willing to revamp certain game features? My hunch is you won't get very far because they are moving on to a stand alone expansion and the Warhammer & MMO crap they are doing.

It`s kinda pointless trying to get CA to explain their reasons. Seriously, unless the SEGA boss is a Total war fan sees the game and in a fit of anger demands answers we will likley not know what happened any time soon. And I don`t think the SEGA boss is a TW fan... probably more a Sonic the Hedgehog fan.

Yep. We`re likely to get further pinpointing CA on what they really mean to do in fixing the game. However, this is a pain as well, as CA love stringing people along (for years if need be) on `maybe`, `we`ll look in to`, possibly` carrot-on-a-stick phrases that never pan out. It`s like when they said they `might` go back and fix Empire... They never did, but it strings people along... perhaps in the hope of squeezing that extra sale.

Getting real, substantial, reliable, answers from Ca is actually incredibly hard.

I think both of you are correct. No developer ever admitted that their game sucks, so CA will not do that either. That would damage their business more than thousands of angry fans venting on the internet. Pinning them down on features may work to improve said features. On the other hand, corporate communication strategy dictates such ambivalent and shallow messages we have been hearing. I don't think it would change either.

After the 'massive' patch 7, I think the most we can expect is some tweaking and optimization, and maybe improvement on the most hated features (if the fans can pin them down as Huberto said). Major changes will be promised to look into (like how CA said they would look into the political system), but would not actually happen as that is just the strategy of fan complaint attrition. The communication happens on the same line as patching: there is a calculated cost-benefit ratio, and currently saying little (if anything) gives CA the most benefit.

Ironically, Simpson's point from "apology" #2 that they will work on the fan communication was a similar carrot - I don't think they ever thought that seriously. It just gave them the maximum benefit at that time. Which is the same strategy as promoting fake pictures etc. In a sense, CA has been very consistent with this strategy with Rome 2: it always whatever is needed to hype or calm down fans at any given time, as long as there are not explicit promises for anything.

[Pajkes]

I think both of you are correct. No developer ever admitted that their game sucks, so CA will not do that either. That would damage their business more than thousands of angry fans venting on the internet. Pinning them down on features may work to improve said features. On the other hand, corporate communication strategy dictates such ambivalent and shallow messages we have been hearing. I don't think it would change either.

After the 'massive' patch 7, I think the most we can expect is some tweaking and optimization, and maybe improvement on the most hated features (if the fans can pin them down as Huberto said). Major changes will be promised to look into (like how CA said they would look into the political system), but would not actually happen as that is just the strategy of fan complaint attrition. The communication happens on the same line as patching: there is a calculated cost-benefit ratio, and currently saying little (if anything) gives CA the most benefit.

Ironically, Simpson's point from "apology" #2 that they will work on the fan communication was a similar carrot - I don't think they ever thought that seriously. It just gave them the maximum benefit at that time. Which is the same strategy as promoting fake pictures etc. In a sense, CA has been very consistent with this strategy with Rome 2: it always whatever is needed to hype or calm down fans at any given time, as long as there are not explicit promises for anything.

OMG sir you have just mastered wisdom and logic.This is so ing true and obvious.Are you perhaps Morgan Freeman cause only he has power to explain complex things in such easy to understand manner.I totally read your comment with his voice.

If this forum did manage to get a CA guy to come talk about it, the extent of what they'll say is: "This is how we originally envisioned the game to be and the bugs at launch were very unfortunate. We'll work harder next time." Huberto and Humble are right. You'll never get them to admit the game's a complete turd and the response to cut features is "streamlining". Just call them out on their BS the next time they start hyping the next TW release. Believe it or not, whining on the Internet can work sometimes. The key is being as consistent and as obnoxious as possible. So spread the gospel, I say!

Exactly but all the streamlining is done because of one reason alone.And that's moarrrrererrrerererrerrr moooooooooooooney.And what guys in suits who own sega and thus own ca too fail to realize (cause their view of games is not different than my grandpa's) is that it's not the only way to do that.I have 2 words for all those who would tell me: Deal with it and it's bussiness phrases.CD Project.Oh and Witcher 1,Witcher 2, Witcher 3.....

So just like today elections no longer have anything common with: from the people,for the people,by the people also today's game companies rarely have anything with: from the gamers,by the gamers,for the gamers.Just my thought.

[VINC.XXIII]

ie. are they willing to revamp certain game features?

Its is what we need, family tree, naval transport improvement, and true political system. The new campaign(different time-frame) could be just a pretext to release fixes and to bring what they "forgotten"...

[RakeinWaiting]

Thank you all for the show of support.

I only ask (and I believe goes without saying) that if a CA member does decide to contribute any information or discussion at all, conversation be kept civil.

We have all tried beating CA with a stick to encourage change and find answers in a series we all love. We hope now to give diplomacy a chance.

[Invictus XII]

I think Rome 2 outplays Shogun 2 easily. I always found Rome's game-play much more intriguing, it was just the technical issues which ruined it for me, and I do truly hope CA get on these quick. But an open community chat is always a benefit for everybody, as long as it is time well spent.

[Sun Jetzu]

I think Rome 2 outplays Shogun 2 easily.

It does 100%. Well said.

[BroskiDerpman]

It does 100%. Well said.

If we're speaking of Shogun 2; TROM3, Seki, SR+ outplay Rome 2 (with mods) with a balance between interesting game mechanics and simplicity, aesthetics and satisfaction of ui input, more authentic combat, more authentic tech, and being more complete even during the beginning.

Plus it's becoming more harder to make the combat authentic ever since Shogun 2, running as default is one of the horrid design choices. (You have to balance whole combat part over running)

I'm not speaking of the many mods from previous TWs either which honestly made me not even consider Rome 2 at all. I don't feel the urge to buy Rome 2 at all, only Gold Edition is in my considerations for Rome 2+Any upcoming TWs as any other way is a way to get ripped off imo.

[Tullaris]

I think Rome 2 outplays Shogun 2 easily.

Prrft are you kidding me? ROME II has absolutely no purpose since the campaign AI is so broken it cannot offer a challenge at all. Even on legendary. Shogun II is miles ahead on that department. In fact I have deleted Rome II and I'm playing just Shogun II at the moment.

[azbestor]

Prrft are you kidding me? ROME II has absolutely no purpose since the campaign AI is so broken it cannot offer a challenge at all. Even on legendary. Shogun II is miles ahead on that department. In fact I have deleted Rome II and I'm playing just Shogun II at the moment.

But it's an opinion vs. opinion. For him Rome2 is better. There is no point arguing with that, if it suits him.
CA's only possible answer would be something along "Yeah, sorry, we've had not enough time and will sort out all problems through patching.", which is quite near to what we read already.

[Karnil Vark Khaitan]

But it's an opinion vs. opinion. For him Rome2 is better. There is no point arguing with that, if it suits him.
CA's only possible answer would be something along "Yeah, sorry, we've had not enough time and will sort out all problems through patching.", which is quite near to what we read already.

I can back you up on this one. Shogun was really bad for me at the start, CTD and lagg was the daily meal for me. until Rots.

[TheCenturion24]

I can back you up on this one. Shogun was really bad for me at the start, CTD and lagg was the daily meal for me. until Rots.

Same here, though replace RotS with FotS, since that appealed to me more. Though frankly I've gone back to both the original and RotS often and enjoy them immensely. Shogun II had high quality, consistent graphics and rare if any graphical glitches, a unique combat style that suited both the era and engine and (despite what people will say) had a lovely amount of variation. Hell, technically we have units from the ancient era up to the firearm era. That's variation, especially in gameplay; I'm guessing many people think 'variation' and immediately picture graphics, which put simply didn't matter here.

Rome II has its moments, I've enjoyed parts of it. Especially with Patch 7, the AI has become far more tolerable. So you know, I can agree it's an opinion thing, because Rome II still has likable stuff; just perhaps not the consistency that Shogun II enjoyed.

[Tullaris]

But it's an opinion vs. opinion. For him Rome2 is better. There is no point arguing with that, if it suits him.
CA's only possible answer would be something along "Yeah, sorry, we've had not enough time and will sort out all problems through patching.", which is quite near to what we read already.

Its another sandbox player that doesn't get that TW games are meant as strategy games. As in you need to come up with actual strategy to win. Right now, Rome II isn't fit to be called a strategy game, because you do not need any strategy to win.

[Karnil Vark Khaitan]

Its another sandbox player that doesn't get that TW games are meant as strategy games. As in you need to come up with actual strategy to win. Right now, Rome II isn't fit to be called a strategy game, because you do not need any strategy to win.

Hmm I cant win with 20 mobs vs 5 hastaties, as in Bum rush them. so some strategy there must be in the game :3

and truth be told; you shame the name of a cool former Dark elf...