7900GTX or X1900XT? - expert advice wanted :-)

[Germanicus75]

Hi guys,

I don't consider myself a PC noob, but I don't know enough about graphics cards detailed performance features and how these are reflected in games to make my own decision. So I'd like to ask for the help of experts here :-)

Specifically, I will be buying my new card for MTW2. I know nobody yet knows what hardware will be needed to run it well, but I'm trying to do the advance planning now while I wait for prices to drop a little.

Here's my current spec:

ASUS A8N-E
AMD Athlon 64 3800+, 2.41 Ghz, Socket 939 (Venice)
Club 3D ATI Radeon X800 XL PCIe 256 MB
OCZ 2GB (2 x 1GB) PC3200 (DDR 400) Dual Channel Platinum Series EL-DDR CAS2 RAM
Creative Labs Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS (WDM)
Ultron UN-550PFC PSU (550W)
74 GB Western Digital Raptor SATA I HDD, 10,000 rpm, 4.6 ms, 16 MB cache - RTW/M2TW will be on this
Samsung SyncMaster 204B, 20.1", 1200x1600, 5 ms, DVI, TFT monitor

The X800 XL is overclocked via ATI Tray Tools. The Athlon chip is *not* overclocked.

I want to run M2TW in 1200x1600, which is the native resolution of my monitor. If I understand things correctly, once you get to a res this high, the graphics card and not the CPU is the decisive factor for game performance?

So my plan is to replace my graphics card, which I believe will be the bottleneck on my system for M2TW.

I know I'll need a high-end card and I'm torn between the ATI Radeon X1900XT 512 MB and the Nvida 7900GTX 512 MB.
I only want to buy one and I'm not interested in SLI or Crossfire.

Looking at the specs, I can see the following main differences between them:

Nvida card:

mem bandwidth - 51.4 GB/sec
textures/clock - 24
Pixel shader engines - 24
Fill rate - 15600 MTexels

ATI card:

mem bandwidth - 46.4 GB/sec
textures/clock - 16
Pixel shader engines - 48
Fill rate - 10000 MTexels

In summary, the Nvida card has higher memory bandwidth, more textures per clock, higher fill rate, but only half the pixel shader engines.
Can someone tell me what significance the difference in pixel shader engines might have for performance in M2TW? I'm looking to play it with large or huge units, high unit detail, medium effects detail, medium terrain/vegetation/buildings detail, bm shadows, desync animations, glints and dust off, grass off, AA low.

Also needed to be considered is the power and heat output of the cards. I understand the Nvida card will produce less heat and require less power - is that right?

All things considered, which card would you guys recommend would best suit my particular needs?

Thanks alot for any expert advice

Cheers, Germanicus91

[Lusted]

I'd recommend the 7900GTX. Its just the better card imho.

[Germanicus75]

Thanks, Lusted. Do you know anything about the effect of the pixel shader engines?

Cheers, Germanicus91

[Lusted]

No i do not, but i have a 256mb 7900GT card, the one below the 7900GTx i believe, and it is more than enough to play todays games. It provides great graphics, and i've no doubt the 7900GTX provides even better graphics.

[Shaun]

Well, Germanicus, look at the stats for yourself, the 7900GTX is slightly better than the X1900XT, so if you have the budget, go for it. But your CPU might be a bottle neck, so I would upgrade this as well. A system is only as fast as its Slowest(thanks for pointing that out Phyrus) component, remember that.
But also take into account that the X1900XT is not ATI's competition to the 7900GTX, but only the 7900GT, of which it comfortably beats, for the same price as the 7900GTX you can buy the X1900XTX, which also beats the 7900GRX at most things.

[Germanicus75]

Thanks Shaun. So I should look at the X1900XTX then instead. Do you know what role the difference in pixel shader engines might play?

[Shaun]

Thanks Shaun. So I should look at the X1900XTX then instead. Do you know what role the difference in pixel shader engines might play?

I think that means just about everything, as what you see on your screen are pixles, thousands of them all shaded different colours.

I just checked out the stats, but it looks like the 7900GTX has better stats than even the X1900XTX, except - again - on the pixel shader engines...

Look for some benchmarks, I am sorry I was too vague in my earlier post.

[Germanicus75]

I just checked out the stats, but it looks like the 7900GTX has better stats than even the X1900XTX, except - again - on the pixel shader engines...

[Germanicus75]

Thanks Shaun :-)

PS - forgot to mention that upgrading the CPU - presumably to an Intel E6600 - would mean I have to get a new mobo as well, plus a new CPU cooler. Plus I'd have to be sure the new mobo supports my non-DDR2 RAM.
So I'm figuring updating the video card is the way to go at the moment.

A couple of people have said my CPU should be OK for M2TW. Hope they're right.

Cheers, Germanicus91

[Shaun]

Thanks Shaun :-)

PS - forgot to mention that upgrading the CPU - presumably to an Intel E6600 - would mean I have to get a new mobo as well, plus a new CPU cooler. Plus I'd have to be sure the new mobo supports my non-DDR2 RAM.
So I'm figuring updating the video card is the way to go at the moment.

A couple of people have said my CPU should be OK for M2TW. Hope they're right.

Cheers, Germanicus91

Actually, your whole system is already good enough by far to run MTW2, do you run RTW on high settings?

And yes get that beast the E6600, I am ordering mines tonight (finally), its better then the Athlon 5000!

And most important for MTW2? The CPU is most important as it does all the calculation to d owith number of men on field etc.
But, this is personal opinion, I would go for the X1900XTX, as most other forums I see say the XTX is slightly above the GTX in most games.

[Germanicus75]

Thanks. I'm gonna wait for prices of ATI cards to drop and then the X1900XTX will be first on my list to consider. I imagine prices will have fallen somewhat by December. Is there one particular manufacturer (e.g. Asus, Ledtek) that's best to buy from?
I can't afford to replace the CPU, mobo and CPU cooler, so my Athlon will have to make it :-)

Have fun with your new Conroe! ;-)

[Shaun]

Thanks. I'm gonna wait for prices of ATI cards to drop and then the X1900XTX will be first on my list to consider. I imagine prices will have fallen somewhat by December. Is there one particular manufacturer (e.g. Asus, Ledtek) that's best to buy from?
I can't afford to replace the CPU, mobo and CPU cooler, so my Athlon will have to make it :-)

Have fun with your new Conroe! ;-)

Sapphire is ATI's prefered partner, but other than that it dosent really matter, if oyu go for a GeForce Gainward ones are proven to be the fastest.
You can pick up a lesser brand X1900XTX like an Connect 3D or something for under £250, essentially its the same card as teh ultra expensive Sapphire ones. And dont worry the Athlon will still make it.
The Advice I would give you is to wait untill DX10 and Vista comes out, then you will have saved up enough money to buy a whole new system, your current system is adeque enough to handle all games for the next year or so.

[PyrrhusIV]

A system is only as fast as its fastest component, remember that.

Only as fast as it's slowest.

@Germanicus

Your current system will run MTW2 fine. I have one of the Socket 939 Dual Cores (4800 X2) along with a 128MB X800 (Yours is 256 MB) and I can run Oblivion on highest settings.

If your going to get a new card, just get a 7900 GT. The 1900 will beat it, and then the 7900 GTX beats that. Of course, if you want to spend insane amounts of money, the 7950GX is the best on the market now, but has a hefty hefty price tag.

I'd go for the GT.

[Germanicus75]

Just read this on Tom's Hardware guide:

"The Geforce 7900 GTX is Nvidia's answer to the X1900 XTX. Both of these heavyweights have their strengths and show superiority in different games and benchmarks, but neither will disappoint. The 7900 GTX will have the advantage in texturing speed, and the X1900 XTX will have the advantage in shader speed."

What I'm trying to find out is which factor - texturing speed or shader speed - will be most decisive for running M2TW best.

Anyone have any ideas?

[UnderdawgIV]

X1900XT is the best buck for performance in the high end. The 7900GTX and the X1900XT/XTX are about equal and have leads in other games, but more and more games tend to be shader intensive so I would get a X1900XT, its also cheaper, at least here in North America. Plus it can do FP16 HDR+AA at the same time while, like all Nvidia Cards, cannot. Future games look to be shader oriented instead of texture fillrate (Nvidia's strength).

Generally (USD)

$500: 7950GX2
$450: X1950XTX
$320: X1900XT
$200: 7900GS

Or something like that.

[Incinerate_IV]

Get which ever is cheaper. But be careful, there are 2 kinds of X1900XTs, one is the ~$360 512mb version, which compets with the 7900GTX, and one is the recently released $250 256mb version, which competes with nVIDIA's new 7950GT. The 256mb version is actually a pretty good bang for the buck, since it's the same as a normal X1900XT with less memory. It's better than the 7950GT but cost less.

[TheWayOfZen]

dude get the saphire x1900xt 512 . i recently bought one and i have it flashed to xtx.
and the bios flash works great. I got a score of 10000 on 3d mark 05 and 7400 on 06.

[Black Hawk]

Found some benchmarks for you.
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/09/...e_card_for_250
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2821&p=8
http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Ha...x1900xt/5.html

Radeon X1900 XT 256MB I think? $249.99
http://www.newegg.com/product/produc...82E16814102051
Radeon X1900XTX 512MB $331.99
http://www.newegg.com/product/produc...82E16814102689
Geforce 7900GTX 512MB $398.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130058

The only thing I don't like about ATI is the one year warranty .

[mac89]

Id wait a while, a new card will be released shortly, the 7900 GTO. Its between the 7900GT and 7900GTX and has a low pricetag of 230 euros.

[Germanicus75]

Thanks alot, guys. I was all set to get an ATI X1900XTX, but then I saw this elsewhere on the forums:

"Thx for these links, especially since the "video settings"-screen finally decided which GPU I'm going to get. Since M2TW is using bloom and not HDR it's going to be a GF7950GX2 instead of an ATI X1950XT..."

Now I'm confused again....