Page 6 of 9 FirstFirst 123456789 LastLast
Results 101 to 120 of 178

Thread: Why do so many people love Sparta ?

  1. #101

    Default Re: Why do so many people love Sparta ?

    I think it's fine to love Sparta or whatever other ancient civilization, as long as it doesn't turn into blind romanticization (or "fanboyism") oblivious to the more sinister aspects of the culture, or even deying their existence. Or revering/inferring stuff that never really was there in the first place. This of course goes for any and all cultures.

  2. #102

    Default Why do so many people love Sparta ?

    Part two of this documentary delves into the history of laconophilia. My only complaints: I think the American "founding fathers" were probably more influenced by republican Rome than Sparta and I doubt the USSR viewed Spartan society in a positive light. OTOH Hitler's laconophilia was well known.
    http://youtu.be/Fzt5h6W1B6g
    Last edited by Kitsunegari; January 25, 2014 at 08:30 PM.

  3. #103
    Durnaug's Avatar Campidoctor
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Way Out West
    Posts
    1,827

    Default Re: Why do so many people love Sparta ?

    Quote Originally Posted by neoptolemos View Post
    Athens were like the US of the Greek World. "They were delivering democracy" all around.
    Just to be a tease - here's another perspective...

    The Spartans are more like the US of the Greek World, spreading and enforcing oligarchic rule Specifcially rule by the corporations. That's US foreign policy in a nutshell - ensuring US corporate profits.

    Ancient Athenians looking at US and UK democracies would label these as rule by the rich. The US are also brilliant at propaganda, just like the Spartans. Furthermore, the US constitution is certainly more inspired by Sparta's checks and balances than Athens real democracy. The framers of the US Constitution wanted to ensure rule by the aristocracy.

    Athenian democracy was the first and last attempt at real democracy anywhere in the world. Time to bring it back

  4. #104
    Manco's Avatar Dux Limitis
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Curtrycke
    Posts
    15,076

    Default Re: Why do so many people love Sparta ?

    It ain't real democracy when you've got slaves and woman in an inferior political position.
    Some day I'll actually write all the reviews I keep promising...

  5. #105
    neoptolemos's Avatar Breatannach Romanus
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Seirios,a parallel space,at your right
    Posts
    11,035

    Default Re: Why do so many people love Sparta ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Manco View Post
    It ain't real democracy when you've got slaves and woman in an inferior political position.
    Well it was according to their perspective.

    Regardless the restrictions of the Athenian reality,we have restrictions ourselves even today, in principle Durnaug has a point.The Athenian democracy was a direct democracy based on a ruling body of equal in law citizens
    Quem faz injúria vil e sem razão,Com forças e poder em que está posto,Não vence; que a vitória verdadeira É saber ter justiça nua e inteira-He who, solely to oppress,Employs or martial force, or power, achieves No victory; but a true victory Is gained,when justice triumphs and prevails.
    Luís de Camões

  6. #106
    Indefinitely Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Shambhala
    Posts
    13,083

    Default Re: Why do so many people love Sparta ?

    People like Sparta because of their war ideology.

  7. #107
    Durnaug's Avatar Campidoctor
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Way Out West
    Posts
    1,827

    Default Re: Why do so many people love Sparta ?

    Quote Originally Posted by John ''True Grit'' Wayne View Post
    People like Sparta because of their war ideology.
    ...and also because that "war ideology" helped save Classical Greece from Xerxes invasion. The military alliance that Sparta created, the so-called Peloponnesian League, formed the backbone of the resistance during that campaign. Of course, it was the Athenians and her allies who finally forced the Persians to recognize Greek independence.

    Needless to say, that same war ideology proved Sparta's undoing. By the time Epaminondas arrived on the scene there weren't that many Sparitates left to conquer. Their own system was a tad self-destructive but I always suspect the earthquake in 464BC really pushed them over the edge in terms of numbers.
    Last edited by Durnaug; February 06, 2014 at 04:09 PM.

  8. #108
    Praefectus
    Citizen

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    6,274

    Default Re: Why do so many people love Sparta ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Durnaug View Post
    ... The US are also brilliant at propaganda, just like the Spartans...
    Um, I agree with a lot of what you say, but this? There's almost no Spartan writing: Tyrtaeus wrote some dittys and then Lykurgos drew a line under all that.

    Others put a lot of work into the Spartans propaganda, the two principal historians of Sparta are a Halicarnassan and an Athenian.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  9. #109
    Mary The Quene's Avatar Praeses
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Hatfield House
    Posts
    8,122

    Default Re: Why do so many people love Sparta ?

    Obviously Thebes was superior to sparta

    imagine a movie like 300, but then about 300 thebans slaughtering 2000 spartans at Tegyra under Pelopidas
    Veritas Temporis Filia

  10. #110
    Manuel I Komnenos's Avatar Rex Regum
    Civitate

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Athenian Empire
    Posts
    11,560

    Default Re: Why do so many people love Sparta ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Manco View Post
    It ain't real democracy when you've got slaves and woman in an inferior political position.
    It ain't real democracy either when all you do is vote every 4 years or so for some people who aren't even obliged to apply the program they had announced.
    Under the patronage of Emperor Maximinus Thrax
    "Steps to be taken in case Russia should be forced out of war considered. Various movements [of ] troops to and from different fronts necessary to meeting possible contingencies discussed. Conference also weighed political, economic, and moral effect both upon Central and Allied powers under most unfavorable aspect from Allied point of view. General conclusions reached were necessity for adoption of purely defensive attitude on all secondary fronts and withdrawing surplus troops for duty on western front. By thus strengthening western front [those attending] believed Allies could hold until American forces arrive in numbers sufficient to gain ascendancy."
    ~General Pershing, report to Washington, 26 July 1917

  11. #111

    Default Re: Why do so many people love Sparta ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Durnaug View Post
    ...and also because that "war ideology" helped save Classical Greece from Xerxes invasion. The military alliance that Sparta created, the so-called Peloponnesian League, formed the backbone of the resistance during that campaign.
    This is more of a general question than a debate one, so don't misinterpret it.: What did Sparta do save Greece from Xerxes?

  12. #112
    Manuel I Komnenos's Avatar Rex Regum
    Civitate

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Athenian Empire
    Posts
    11,560

    Default Re: Why do so many people love Sparta ?

    They provided the biggest force in Plataea.
    Under the patronage of Emperor Maximinus Thrax
    "Steps to be taken in case Russia should be forced out of war considered. Various movements [of ] troops to and from different fronts necessary to meeting possible contingencies discussed. Conference also weighed political, economic, and moral effect both upon Central and Allied powers under most unfavorable aspect from Allied point of view. General conclusions reached were necessity for adoption of purely defensive attitude on all secondary fronts and withdrawing surplus troops for duty on western front. By thus strengthening western front [those attending] believed Allies could hold until American forces arrive in numbers sufficient to gain ascendancy."
    ~General Pershing, report to Washington, 26 July 1917

  13. #113
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Colfax WA, neat I have a barn and 49 acres - I have 2 horses, 15 chickens - but no more pigs
    Posts
    13,038

    Default Re: Why do so many people love Sparta ?

    It ain't real democracy when you've got slaves and woman in an inferior political position.
    Yes it is because you know they invented the word and the system and last time I checked is not that long ago that the US and Europe did the same in on way or another (womens's rights, slaves or vast pools of coloniaals with no say in their fate etc). On balance it was the equitable state of its era and for very much several thousand years forward, its a little petty to say it not turn into a modern liberal democracy overnight.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  14. #114
    Manco's Avatar Dux Limitis
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Curtrycke
    Posts
    15,076

    Default Re: Why do so many people love Sparta ?

    It was a form of democracy, but it was not absolute democracy in the modern sense.
    Not a single nation or stare in history or present has had the latter, and I'm not sure it'd even be a good thing so no judgement here.
    Some day I'll actually write all the reviews I keep promising...

  15. #115
    Rijul.J.Ballal's Avatar Domesticus
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    india banglore
    Posts
    2,415

    Default Re: Why do so many people love Sparta ?

    Because people are dumb,
    Hey look Greeks that must be democracy,hey look Spartans! Wow so kewl!!!
    I had to convince 5 people that despite being Greek,Alexander did not ,shockingly, spread democracy.. You'd think that people could infer that you now him being an emperor... but it just goes to show that people are quite dumb.
    Click here!!!!!!! - rijulballal@wordpress.com

  16. #116

    Default Re: Why do so many people love Sparta ?

    Who caused more wars, Sparta or Athens?

  17. #117
    neoptolemos's Avatar Breatannach Romanus
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Seirios,a parallel space,at your right
    Posts
    11,035

    Default Re: Why do so many people love Sparta ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frostwulf View Post
    Who caused more wars, Sparta or Athens?
    Athen's expanding imperialism
    Quem faz injúria vil e sem razão,Com forças e poder em que está posto,Não vence; que a vitória verdadeira É saber ter justiça nua e inteira-He who, solely to oppress,Employs or martial force, or power, achieves No victory; but a true victory Is gained,when justice triumphs and prevails.
    Luís de Camões

  18. #118
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Colfax WA, neat I have a barn and 49 acres - I have 2 horses, 15 chickens - but no more pigs
    Posts
    13,038

    Default Re: Why do so many people love Sparta ?

    Quote Originally Posted by neoptolemos View Post
    Athen's expanding imperialism

    What expansion it was mostly contracting. How about Persia, Argos and Sparta all started more.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  19. #119

    Default Re: Why do so many people love Sparta ?

    *Reviving thread*

    People love Sparta because of fanboyism, caused by the movie 300 and God of War.

    I was ashamed when I saw some answer from this Yahoo question saying that Sparta would "totally win" against Rome.

  20. #120
    Indefinitely Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,303

    Default Re: Why do so many people love Sparta ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Architect of Doom View Post
    *Reviving thread*

    People love Sparta because of fanboyism, caused by the movie 300 and God of War.

    I was ashamed when I saw some answer from this Yahoo question saying that Sparta would "totally win" against Rome.
    Lol.

    +rep for the epic link

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •