End game is chaotic

**MarshallNole** · November 21, 2013, 08:20 AM

I am nearing the end of my very first campaign (long). I am basically at war with everyone around me. I've not left enough of an army in some cities to defend it because I am off fighting other battles. I assume it is imperative to have large armies garrisoned in ANY border cities? I flat out can't defend them all and my main armies are several turns away.

**adimasaditya** · November 21, 2013, 08:48 AM

So, your question is? If you're asking if this is the case to everyone in every nearing end campaign then the answer is no.

I think most people here agree that you need to overlook your grand strategy. I assume that you lack in managing your diplomacy, maintaining alliances, managing good economy to fund war, managing POW (if you have bad rep), and maintaining garrisons in faction border. Since this is your first long campaign, i assume you're new in this game. To improve those things i said before you need to take a moment on choosing what building to built in in each campaign stage (early, middle, late), take seriously of diplomacy ( choosing which faction to be your ally and enemy and having trade rights with in each stage), knowing when to occupy settlement and kill POW, and having a mix of castle-city ratio and placement to support your faction border or war with other faction.

Sorry for not being helpful. If you can give additional info on your campaign, i'm sure anybody here can help you.

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**UndrState** · November 21, 2013, 03:29 PM

Well, there is a downside to not playing nice lol, but at this point there's no point in pulling your punches. I'm a big fan of building forts between settlements with all cavalry armies that can make the distance to a settlement in need. However, as the old expression goes the best defense could be a strong offence - try having stacks go after their means of production. Also keep in mind that you should be able to hold off the enemy with less units then they are attacking with, so maybe you can survive with such. If you feel like you cannot help but lose some settlements, you should start planning where your new borders are going to be with such losses and set up new defenses.
Care to describe your state of affairs in more detail? Like what you control and where these attacks are coming from? Also, any chance you have some small, neutral state you can afford to prop up as an ally (puppet state) and feed cash for their participation against your enemies?

**MarshallNole** · November 21, 2013, 03:39 PM

Meant to say that the Papal STates are attacking Milan and Genoa, they also attacked one of the other island regions south of Genoa but I fought them off (and paid dearly to do so).

**MarshallNole** · November 21, 2013, 03:37 PM

I am England. I own everything from Spain up to around Genoa/Milan. I am currently being attacked in 3 areas by the Papal States (despite having churches everywhere and paying them 100 florin gifts), Venice is attacking one of those island cities south of Genoa, and meanwhile I am at war with the HRE and Russia north of these areas.

Poland is my only ally. I will try to get them to help me with the HRE. Unfortunately most of my armies are in Spain as I just conquered them, and north fighting the HRE and Russia, which is why I am several turns away from the Papal States area.

What is more aggravating is they all attacked ME! I did not initiate any of these wars!! ARGH

**UndrState** · November 21, 2013, 03:57 PM

Boy oh boy, fighting with the Papal States is always a tough proposition. Any chance you have some cardinals, maybe even a preferati (if not you, Poland?)? I'm too much of a pope butt-kisser to have much experience in this, but I'm sure I've read that a key to stifling their aggression would be to kill the Holy Father and engineer his replacement. For sure there are definitely several threads out there about dealing with the Papal States, because fighting them has special implications. You're lucky you still have any catholic friends!

Alternatively, do you think you can make peace maybe by offering some territory? Ass-kissing...

**MarshallNole** · November 21, 2013, 04:05 PM

I will crush them. I don't suck up to those who attack me.

**UndrState** · November 21, 2013, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by MarshallNole

I will crush them. I don't suck up to those who attack me.

LOL great. But do yourself a favour and send a crack squad of priests to some heathen region, and make like the Borgias and take over the papacy when you kill the "pretender".

**MarshallNole** · November 21, 2013, 05:12 PM

I do thank you for your advice though. Clearly I have not handled diplomacy and reputation well on my first play through. I was getting a little frustrated last night getting attacked every turn.

**Nzg** · November 21, 2013, 05:40 PM

Marschall, fighting the pope can be tough, even when you kill all his armies, take all the cities and kill him, a new one is soon elected and get's a new army. A little tip how I usually deal with him.

Take his cities before killing him. When he has one last army, including him left, try to weaken him, destroy his units, but spare his life. When he runs, give him peace and give him one of the islands south of Genua. Before giving him the city, it's a good idea to destroy everyting in it, so even if he'd like to rebuild his position and regain Italy, it would be hard. It would be good also if you destroyed his fleet before. The region given would be preferably a castle than a town(lower income, no free upkeep).

After having peace with the pope, just simply kill him(so no army is running around your territory), either by units in a battle, or a assasin(better option, but can be harder) and a new pope is elected and appears on the island. Even if you are hated by the papacy(no friendly cardinal elected) the excommunication will end and you allways can sign peace with him.

Battles with the pope are hard, but not close to the hardest battles in M2. In field battles, cavalry is a good idea since charging can cripple a lot of papal infantry. If you can, chose heavy inf, not spearmen(keep about 2 squads). The only problem is papal units high morale, but nothing can be done with that.

When talking about the sieges, heavy inf just plain crushes papal guard.

**MarshallNole** · November 22, 2013, 08:44 AM

Thanks Nzg. What are the hardest battles?

I had a lot more luck last night. I crushed two of his sieges and retook a city that Papal states took from me.

**UndrState** · November 22, 2013, 10:48 AM

I found something that may also help you in this situation:

Originally Posted by Marto

...

If you set up a long-term regular tribute to The Papacy, like 20 for 20 for example, and create a few (3/ 4) Assassins where your Thieves Guild is, you can really play the Pope when attacking fellow Catholics. Specifically, after the tribute has started and you're ready to attack a Catholic nation, use Assassins, not for their conventional use, but to destroy all the religious buildings in your target factions lands.

This way their rep with the Pope will be rock-bottom, yours will be high, and old Popey will be far less inclined to intervene when you start wiping them out. (I noticed - but this may not always be true - that he warns you and your rep drops rather than him threatening excommunication as normal) It works

**Nzg** · November 22, 2013, 12:33 PM

Hardest battles? To be honest it depends on the faction you're playing but first thing comming to my mind are Timurids and Mongols especially in field battles. Sicily in late game, if given enough space and has enough castles? It's hard with their heavy infantry, one of the best in game. Hungary can be painfull, mounted cavalry, nice infantry(much better than Poland for example) and nice terrain at start. England on the defence isn't so nice as well

You must of course remember that no battle is impossible to win, especially if you have the time to prepare. Till now I just can't face Timurids in field battles, I make them hard time on the walls, and hope for the best