Divide et Impera (Divide & Rule) - Main Thread

[lesterthenerd]

just downloaded the newest version. sad i had to leave my aga campaign but im hoping this will mean a better campaign.

[Legatus21]

1.pontic swords missing shields and weapons
2.hellenic royal guard deliberately 160 units?
3.not a huge fan of corinthian helmet except officers
4.in custom battle my (regular)pikemen got annihilated from afrontal attack of libyan infantry (dunno if this is a bug or its meant to be this way)

Hope my feedback helps you !!! keep up the great work you badass modders !

[Selea]

1.pontic swords missing shields and weapons
2.hellenic royal guard deliberately 160 units?
3.not a huge fan of corinthian helmet except officers
4.in custom battle my (regular)pikemen got annihilated from afrontal attack of libyan infantry (dunno if this is a bug or its meant to be this way)

Hope my feedback helps you !!! keep up the great work you badass modders !

1. I know, it's resolved now, uploading some graphical fixes.
2. Yes. Do you think they should be another size? Were they larger than other similar units?
3. They are historical
4. Ok, will look at it. Probably reduced too much the bonus on normal pikes (I sincerely tested more the high-tier ones to be sure they would not be too powerful, so it can be I reduced too much the power of the low-tier ones).

[kanzy]

Yes finally a mod that gets me back to playing R2.

[Selea]

Ok, version mixing 4TPY with 2TPY. I adopted the campaign movement of 2TPY because also IMO it's best:

http://www.mediafire.com/?n8404nz8fa271f4

- Building time, population growth and research time slowed by 50%
- Army replenishment rate reduced by 50%
- Campaign army movement: cavalry 100%, infantry 75%, artillery 50%
- Campaign naval movement: light 100%, medium 85%, heavy 70%
- Army experience required to increase level: x2
- Agent experience required to pass level: x2
- General experience required to pass level: x1.5
- Agents and Generals age x4 slower
- Agents and Generals skill points per level: 1 from 1 to 3, 2 from 4 to 6, 3 from 7 to 9

This will much probably be the version the mod will fix in, so try it and let me know.

[GERMANICUS]

Ok, version mixing 4TPY with 2TPY. I adopted the campaign movement of 2TPY because also IMO it's best:

http://www.mediafire.com/?n8404nz8fa271f4

- Building time, population growth and research time slowed by 50%
- Army replenishment rate reduced by 50%
- Campaign army movement: cavalry 100%, infantry 75%, artillery 50%
- Campaign naval movement: light 100%, medium 85%, heavy 70%
- Army experience required to increase level: x2
- Agent experience required to pass level: x2
- General experience required to pass level: x1.5
- Agents and Generals age x4 slower
- Agents and Generals skill points per level: 1 from 1 to 3, 2 from 4 to 6, 3 from 7 to 9

This will much probably be the version the mod will fix in, so try it and let me know.

Will do. Thanks for the update Selea.

One question is there a way to increase naval movement? This has always been a disappointing element of TW games, and how distorted the naval movement is to passage of time per turn. It always fails miserably to reflect the strategic value that naval power should provide. I would enjoy seeing naval movement double or even tripled!

That said thanks for the release of this mod and I look forward to its evolution.

+REP

[lesterthenerd]

hey selea any chance you could add back the throw pilum ability for romans? on the charge only the first two front rows throw their pilums but with the throw pilum ability they tend to all throw their pilums. also it allows you do use it defensively which historically they did.

[Selea]

hey selea any chance you could add back the throw pilum ability for romans? on the charge only the first two front rows throw their pilums but with the throw pilum ability they tend to all throw their pilums. also it allows you do use it defensively which historically they did.

No, they didn't. I checked.

Pila were usually thrown only on a charge to disrupt formations (as Shield Wall) or to cause damage on the first impact. There is some researcher (as Alexander Zhmodikov) that says that they used Pila also in other occasions (and it can be) but in the majority of cases Pila were used on a charge or against cavalry. So actually CA did it right this time and not on Rome I.

For this I removed the ability to use them on self-defense. Moreover apart this it's also an issue of the AI that doesn't know how to defend properly and how to use Javelins properly on melee infantry. It causes a lot of switching of lines and it's really easy to bring the AI down because it never uses loose formation; it will just stand there to get massacred.

As for only the first two rows using Pila, that's a thing that I'm trying to change but for now I've been unable to and I don't either know if it's possible. If it is tied to the animation it is not doable.

[lesterthenerd]

No, they didn't. I checked.

Pila were usually thrown only on a charge to disrupt formations (as Shield Wall) or to cause damage on the first impact. There is some researcher (as Alexander Zhmodikov) that says that they used Pila also in other occasions (and it can be) but in the majority of cases Pila were used on a charge or against cavalry. So actually CA did it right this time and not on Rome I.

Yes i think they usually threw their pilum on the charge but historically they really did use their pilum when on the defensive especially when heavily outnumbered like in the battle of wattling street for example so the player should have the option to do just that. This is why many people are annoyed over the fact that CA removed the option to do so from Rome 2. However, if it does mess with the ai then i can understand why you removed it. From the many battles i had using your AGA mod i never noticed it though.

The two rows only throwing their pilum i think is a bug that surfaced around patch 3 because before that they would all throw their pilum on the charge so it looks like CA are the only ones that can fix that issue.

BTW if your aiming for your mod to be as realistic as possible you might want to look at the scorpion as its damage out put isnt enough to be realstic. I tested it and its unable to kill any heavy infantry on the first volley. Its not really worth using atm. Since you capped artillery to 1 of each type it might be worth looking into.

[Sir_Pee_Alot]

CA sould make 2 versions, 1 with pilum on charge and 1 when you are defending

[Selea]

However, if it does mess with the ai then i can understand why you removed it. From the many battles i had using your AGA mod i never noticed it though.

It doesn't properly "mess" with it, it is just that the AI doesn't know how to use javelins properly on melee units and so it is much easier to win; with Romans you can really demolish whatever armies given the power of their Pila and I don't want to tone them down.

Btw I've finally found a good balance on power of Pila so they are good from the front but not overkill from a flank. It will be there in next version.

[Sir_Pee_Alot]

Yes your right Selea, what the other guy said.
going to give it a go

oh and maybe you can also add more recruitment slots for City/5 Town/4 Ports/3 or something like that.

[Selea]

Btw I have a question about recruitment times:

Let's say I give almost all troops a recruitment time of 2 turns, what happens in game with the AI? Is it possible that the AI is not able to recruit any unit because of this?

It would be much better if I could be able to do this since then I could actually make Mercenaries instead have only 1 turn recruitment so that they would become much more useful than now and their higher upkeep cost justified; they would be a sort of defense line in case of a sudden attack or a good tactical approach in case you want to attack a city fast and lack the units.

I would have to test what it happens if you give all units 2 turns recruitment but I don't have a campaign in an advanced state atm to test properly. Maybe somebody tried and knows already.

[Dresden]

If you want to take a look at some of the values of my 2TPY and 4TPY hardcore mods, I think you will get an idea of what works for turns per year. Many people have tested them and I had to end up adjusting many values. For example, I started out doing a blanket 75% reduction for 4tpy, but had to continually change that as certain aspects of the game just didn't flow well. Also, naval replenishment is a major headache if you reduce it for some reason.

Anyway, I am around if you want to bounce any ideas off me or see how some tpy things did in testing. PM me if you need anything! It is looking really good.

Edit: Recruit times. AI will recruit even if the recruit time is increased. I have had multiple testers and they all report the AI is doing well in that regard. It is easier to balance recruiting for 4TPY (you can make elite units 4, medium/heavy 3, med/light 2, skirmisher/light 1 etc). However, I think many players prefer some of the 2TPY aspects mixed with the 4TPY turn number.

[Selea]

Anyway, I am around if you want to bounce any ideas off me or see how some tpy things did in testing. PM me if you need anything! It is looking really good.

Thanks Dresden. I just wanted to contact you for some other things also. I will do it immediately

Edit: Recruit times. AI will recruit even if the recruit time is increased. I have had multiple testers and they all report the AI is doing well in that regard. It is easier to balance recruiting for 4TPY (you can make elite units 4, medium/heavy 3, med/light 2, skirmisher/light 1 etc). However, I think many players prefer some of the 2TPY aspects mixed with the 4TPY turn number.

My idea is to actually give most units (apart elite ones that will get 3 or 4) 2 turns recruitment time and instead 1 turn (or 2 max for elite units) recruitment for Mercenaries. That would make these last much more useful than now and a good strategical approach.

[carbide]

If you want to take a look at some of the values of my 2TPY and 4TPY hardcore mods, I think you will get an idea of what works for turns per year. Many people have tested them and I had to end up adjusting many values. For example, I started out doing a blanket 75% reduction for 4tpy, but had to continually change that as certain aspects of the game just didn't flow well.

This is defiantly the right approach rather than blanketing everything. AI always seems to focus on cheaper/quicker routes. This would even give individual units uniqueness based on recruitment times.

[Sir_Pee_Alot]

The only thing is with on charce that you never use all your pilum,s or you need to micro to mutch

[Selea]

The only thing is with on charce that you never use all your pilum,s or you need to micro to mutch

I know. I sincerely don't know why CA did the Pila thrown only by the first two rows, it doesn't make any sense.

I will have to actually test if giving the "all ranks fire" attribute to javelin units change the behavior or not or it is just a thing fixed with the animation, in which case there's nothing I can do about it.

[Dresden]

A note about army and naval movement: There are basically 2 options, historical or strategic.

Historical movement would actually be much farther than the game currently has it set. Armies and navies could move vast distances over the course of a couple months. However, this would mean in the game that there are mostly siege battles and a sense of pace that doesn't fit with multiple turns per year. It also means the player isn't punished for making a strategic error.

Strategic movement means that it is shorter movement and not as realistic. However, it does add the element of truly having to consider your moves. Your armies can get stuck out in a forced march and ambushed. Or, you may move your forces to the southern theater and get attacked in the north. Lower movement makes every decision that much more important and, also, makes army vs. army field battles more possible (as well as ambushes, defenses, forced marches, etc.).

Just my take on movement, neither choice is wrong necessarily. I happen to prefer the more strategic approach. It sacrifices some realism but increases the value of the gameplay.


Edit: Also, making cavalry, infantry and artillery have different movement points creates a nice sense of realism in the campaign. You want to take along some of the great ballistas? Your army is going to move a little slower. Is your army entirely made of cavalry? Then you will outpace those foot-slogging infantry armies.

Edit 2: Selea, just saw your post about recruit times. I love that idea for mercenaries. Either make them 1 turn or even leave them instant, since they technically are a ready-made source of manpower who come with their own equipment.

[Little Legionaire]

For those who accuses the Polybian shields are belong to a Mount Blade mod,

Here are the references:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Triarii


Hastatii


Principes

As you can see the patterns are used in illustrations and i simply photoshopped, cleaned and recoloured them before i put it to use,

And here is my DDS files,

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

So before making false accusation for stealing someone... Somebody should be more careful what he is talking about.

And if someone used the same patterns for their mod in Mount n Blade then the same people as guilty as mine for cropping patterns from illustrations.

And one more thing... I'm not making money by making those textures, it's all for the TW players

Thanks,

Legionaire