Divide et Impera (Divide & Rule) - Main Thread

[est Dudus]

Trust me, I do not want to turn off formation attack, it looks awful. But knowing I will lose a battle because I am in formation, like I should be, takes away the fun and point of the battle (to win). If I get out flanked or I am just not being a good tactician, I am all about losing. One would think that formation based troops (like the Romans) would get a negative effect for not being in formation, not a bonus. I was just wondering if there was a way to work around this? Maybe a bonus or something if you are in formation attack. I ask these questions cause I have no idea what you can change and what is out of your hands.

Yes, I saw your post about normal so that is what I did the test on (I also did it on vh, thats what I play my campaign on). I don't know if Iberian swordman should be adjusted (maybe a little), I like the challenge. I am just glad the cav are no longer super hero's lol.

[est Dudus]

If you remove Formation Attack and you use Fulcum units will not keep formation. It is like cheating, seriously, because you will get the bonuses but without the penalties of remaining in formation.

Which difficulty are you using to test in custom battles? As I specified to test in custom is better to use normal difficulty.

Then Iberians have probably some of the stronger sword infantry troops for stats, and in fact it may be that I have to tweak them a bit. The Falcata is damn powerful, maybe too much.

EDIT:

I just tried a custom battle Roman best sword troops vs. Iberian best sword troops and I had not problem on winning. It was an hard battle in some points but engaging; I neither had Legionaries at +1 experience as you get in Campaign mode.

So all in all I think your problem is that you test on harder difficulties for custom battles, and for custom battles it is not appropriate. Raw bonuses are fine in campaign because there everything is different (there is experience, there's no limit to costs, there are Campaign tactics, agents, generals etc.) but for custom battles where you test pure strength everything above or below normal difficulty will screw results for the arbitrary bonuses received.

Roger that, I see your point. But if I turn off formation attack I will lose less troops in that same battle. I am not harping on you Selea, if you stopped modding today I would be more then happy with what you have already done. I just am making sure I understand what is going on, I have got request to do a review on this mod and don't want to be giving bad info.

[Selea]

Roger that, I see your point. But if I turn off formation attack I will lose less troops in that same battle. I am not harping on you Selea, if you stopped modding today I would be more then happy with what you have already done. I just am making sure I understand what is going on, I have got request to do a review on this mod and don't want to be giving bad info.

I know you will lose less units, but that's only because as I said it's like cheating in the sense that you get the bonuses of the formation without the standing in formation. There's no way to have the formation attack not be a toggle, elsewhere I would actually make it so. It has no sense of it being toggable and have users being able to remove it since it breaks all the formations if they are used.

If you remove Formation Attack attribute Fulcum and Shield Wall will not work correctly. If I could I would make it so that formation attack actually make units more powerful (as it should: fighting in formation should be a benefit, not a penalty) but attributes characteristics and parameters are hard-coded and you cannot change them.

Also for the way Warscape works (i.e. only 1 unit attack another in a turn, not two at once can attack) standing in formation will always be detrimental, there's nothing to do about that. The only way to work around this issue is to give bonuses to using the attribute (and it is probably what CA will do) but as I said I cannot do it.

One thing is sure however: if an unit has Formation Attack you should not remove it or it's like cheating.

[est Dudus]

Yeah, I agree with you it will have to be a user choice (not to cheat). That is how I will play, I like the challenge. Thanks for clearing everything up (I wasn't sure if you were able to do anything with formation attack). I just didn't want to say best way to win, is in formation attack. Now I have all the info of why, I will state if you wanna "cheat" then blah, blah, blah..... Once again Selea, you are the man! lol

[adambomb1]

I downloaded from steam twice and still can't get the larger units ( and using Ultra Units). I wonder what I could be doing wrong. NOTE: As far as formations, when running or attacking take off formation for faster attack, but when ready to defend use formations and fulcrum, they will hold until hell freezes over. (I guess the only way I can get archers is to take over country with archers?) LOVE THIS MOD.

[Soontir]

I downloaded from steam twice and still can't get the larger units ( and using Ultra Units). I wonder what I could be doing wrong. NOTE: As far as formations, when running or attacking take off formation for faster attack, but when ready to defend use formations and fulcrum, they will hold until hell freezes over. (I guess the only way I can get archers is to take over country with archers?) LOVE THIS MOD.

Steam version still uses standard unit sizes. Increased one are at beta stage, so requires manual download.

[xernoxis]

Selea, would you mind putting up some quick videos? For tips on how to use your mod. Also you would crush the false info some people have been spreading or asking.
I would like to see how you play battles, and obviously you know how the mod works and how to win. Much appreciated.

[Ettore953]

ast change of put on 50% panic effect changed mod balance and feeling in normal mod version, beside to not be realistic and not historic(military umnits ran before to loss 50% of men).
Now I saw many hard battles in which winning army is destroyed . Why? Low moral armies are much more good and run when their force is on 50% good armies run when they are under 30% so effect is: loosing bad army is defeated but has 70% of unit in repair situation, winning better army has 60% of units destroyed. Lol: this is not realistic and totally out balance.

[Selea]

ast change of put on 50% panic effect changed mod balance and feeling in normal mod version, beside to not be realistic and not historic(military umnits ran before to loss 50% of men).

It was lower before. I had to turn it up a little for all the complains. People seemingly want "decisive" battles where they don't have to fight the same army time and time again.

Now I saw many hard battles in which winning army is destroyed . Why? Low moral armies are much more good and run when their force is on 50% good armies run when they are under 30% so effect is: loosing bad army is defeated but has 70% of unit in repair situation, winning better army has 60% of units destroyed. Lol: this is not realistic and totally out balance.

So, let me understand: you would like for me that units that are stronger should have LESS morale and fight less? And you call this realistic? OMG. You either have the boldness of saying that units being stronger having more morale than those that are weaker is "not realistic and totally out of balance", Oh... My... God. Another great quote, I should really make a post about these. I suppose you REALLY believe that mobs had more morale than trained troops.

Armies defeated have MORE casualties, obviously, elsewhere they wouldn't be losing, isn't it? What you say makes no sense, no sense at all, seriously.

[adambomb1]

Selea, for some reason I can't get Larger units to work, even downloading information. I must be doing something wrong. can you give me some instructions. LOVE THE MOD.

[Phoenicia]

Hello

I just started your mod today, and i'm really loving it.
I was a little bit scared for battles from what i read here, but for me battles last much longer than in vanilla, and it is just great !!
I guess that you probably lowered the "hit chance" in melee and that is just perfect for me.

I'm just a little bit lost about diplomacy, i can't get a single trade agreement with faction that have a neutral feeling towards me.
Even when adding money in the proposal, it always remains" low chance" and it is refused.
i play as Rome.
So what should i do for that ?

[Prelate99]

Selea, Your team made Great mod so far, but wil you fix the missing voice acting for the new factions and egypt soon? also the holow square formation for the romans still doesn't work apropriatly. rep+

[adambomb1]

As far as trading, sometimes you have to go to war with a faction to help the one you want to trade with. Also make sure and check who is "friendly with who" by moving curser over icons. Once I got trading going a little, more started trading with me because some of their friends were trading with me. Take out a fraction whose an enemy of the one you are wanting trade with sure helps. Anyway just try anything you think will improve your relations, in this mod it sure makes a lot of difference. (Note: year 240 and got about 15 towns now and around 250000 gold pieces, I'm buying friends now. LOL)

[Phoenicia]

As far as trading, sometimes you have to go to war with a faction to help the one you want to trade with. Also make sure and check who is "friendly with who" by moving curser over icons. Once I got trading going a little, more started trading with me because some of their friends were trading with me. Take out a fraction whose an enemy of the one you are wanting trade with sure helps. Anyway just try anything you think will improve your relations, in this mod it sure makes a lot of difference. (Note: year 240 and got about 15 towns now and around 250000 gold pieces, I'm buying friends now. LOL)

Thanks.
I'm glad to see you can trade, and that faction offers you to trade. It seems with this mod, it is just you need to be friendly to trade, and neutral is not enough anymore.
Ok, i will adapt to that.

[Épaminondas The "Oblique"]

Thanks.
I'm glad to see you can trade, and that faction offers you to trade. It seems with this mod, it is just you need to be friendly to trade, and neutral is not enough anymore.
Ok, i will adapt to that.

Trading will be made easier in the next update

[Phoenicia]

Trading will be made easier in the next update

That is fine.

I haven't tried yet as i just started, but is it also harder to get a peace treaty ?

[DasBananenbrot]

That looks really promising. Will try it out I guess. But concerning Rome do you intend make realistic reforms? Because Aodh Mor is doing a mod for the reforms mainly with a script which is now in beta and seems promising(http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...re-Description). Maybe it is possible to implement it into an other mod like this one

[campesino]

Hi!, great mod, i have a question, i am obliterating everyone and i still cant find any warhorse resource, its not on the map and not on the wiki but (im playing with seleucid empire) it requires me to build level 4 stables and a warhorse trader, how do i produce or accure this resource=(? thanks!!

[Anabasis]

The silver lining to the delay in STIM (the Silven lining?) is that I discovered this mod. Excellent work. I have been playing Pontus and both in terms of the campaign and the battles, it generates the most historically believeable outcomes I have yet seen in any TW game or mod.

[FlashHeart07]

Hi!, great mod, i have a question, i am obliterating everyone and i still cant find any warhorse resource, its not on the map and not on the wiki but (im playing with seleucid empire) it requires me to build level 4 stables and a warhorse trader, how do i produce or accure this resource=(? thanks!!

I know that you can obtain it by trading with a faction that has acces to it. There are warhorses in gaul and I guess you could find them with some of the other cavalry based factions

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