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  1. #1
    Decanus
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    Default Re: Divide Et Impera (Divide And Rule) Updated 25/11/13 (Steam version added)

    Quote Originally Posted by raphael View Post
    Hey guys awesome mod! i really enjoy the new battle system on how you can only win if you flank. makes battles with the Romans much harder! one thing though. the auto resolve is WAY off. could you adjust this accordingly?
    It seems like auto-resolve is a tough beast to crack. I did notice that Magnar over at Magnar mod has been taking a look at overhauling auto-resolve, and it doesn't seem like it's been too easy for him so far. Here's the link to his thread: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1#post13426757

    My beef with auto-resolve is that it hates my elephants. Seriously, what's up with the elephant hate auto-resolve? It always tries to kill them off. If I have 98% remaining, you can bet the 2% of casualties were purely my elephants. CA probably is just trying to make up for the fact that they were OP in vanilla, so they constantly try to kill them off.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Divide Et Impera (Divide And Rule) Updated 25/11/13 (Steam version added)

    Little Update:

    - Included new version of Realistic Names mod of Splenyi in the pack (all credits to the work goes to the author)
    - Corrected some Artillery now having the proper caps in custom battles and campaign
    - Reduced disband to 25% (30% was probably a little too rough: 25% of a normal unit is 40 men, 30% was 48)

  3. #3

    Default Re: Divide Et Impera (Divide And Rule) Updated 25/11/13 (Steam version added)

    Selea, you may want to consider tweaking the minimum unit size for losing parties; the entry is present in campaign variables file, I don't have it in front of me but this entry's name starts with "losing...". Very simple to find actually.

    I'm used to set it to 40% so to get rid of battered enemy armies, simutating they are disbanded...

  4. #4

    Default Re: Divide Et Impera (Divide And Rule) Updated 25/11/13 (Steam version added)

    Quote Originally Posted by jethro View Post
    Selea, you may want to consider tweaking the minimum unit size for losing parties; the entry is present in campaign variables file, I don't have it in front of me but this entry's name starts with "losing...". Very simple to find actually.

    I'm used to set it to 40% so to get rid of battered enemy armies, simutating they are disbanded...
    Already done. I set it to 25% for now (40% is really too much however) but can increase it to 30% after if I see that 25% is too low.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Divide Et Impera (Divide And Rule) Updated 25/11/13 (Steam version added)

    Ok, I thought 25 was for all units, not only defeated armies' ones.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Divide Et Impera (Divide And Rule) Updated 25/11/13 (Steam version added)

    Epaminondas & Selea : when should we expect new units?

    thanks in advance!

  7. #7

    Default Re: Divide Et Impera (Divide And Rule) Updated 25/11/13 (Steam version added)

    I was wondering if it is intended for javelins to have lower damage than arrows. The kill rate seems about right for arrows though.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Divide Et Impera (Divide And Rule) Updated 25/11/13 (Steam version added)

    Quote Originally Posted by minizer View Post
    I was wondering if it is intended for javelins to have lower damage than arrows. The kill rate seems about right for arrows though.
    They have more AP than arrows so for the less range and accuracy are worse against light armored opponents than arrows.

    Missiles are problematic to balance perfectly because there are so many variables to take in consideration. Before they were actually too strong and I had to reduce their power, now I sincerely didn't test them lately with these new updates so something maybe has changed.

    Will take a look at them.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Divide Et Impera (Divide And Rule) Updated 25/11/13 (Steam version added)

    Selea, is there any other link you have besides media fire.....the site is non responsive and I am foaming at the mouth to play the new version.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Divide Et Impera (Divide And Rule) Updated 25/11/13 (Steam version added)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ant909 View Post
    Selea, is there any other link you have besides media fire.....the site is non responsive and I am foaming at the mouth to play the new version.
    Mediafire is working again. I was about to post it on a new link and then functionality returned.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Divide Et Impera (Divide And Rule) Updated 25/11/13 (Steam version added)

    Well, still does not work stupid media fire!!! lol Well, it will be even more glorious when I can get it. I think I shall take the dog for a walk.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Divide Et Impera (Divide And Rule) Updated 25/11/13 (Steam version added)

    Quote Originally Posted by Selea View Post
    They have more AP than arrows so for the less range and accuracy are worse against light armored opponents than arrows.

    Missiles are problematic to balance perfectly because there are so many variables to take in consideration. Before they were actually too strong and I had to reduce their power, now I sincerely didn't test them lately with these new updates so something maybe has changed.

    Will take a look at them.
    I believe that javelins should have a high lethality rate with a low count of ammo while bows could be the opposite, while slings could fall somewhere in between. Besides, it wouldn't make much sense that an armored opponent is easier to be killed by a javelin than an opponent with little to no armor.

    My 2 cents. Keep up the good work Selea!

  13. #13
    Decanus
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    Default Re: Divide Et Impera (Divide And Rule) Updated 25/11/13 (Steam version added)

    Quote Originally Posted by minizer View Post
    I believe that javelins should have a high lethality rate with a low count of ammo while bows could be the opposite, while slings could fall somewhere in between.
    IMO, the balance should work something like this:

    Slingers are best as anti-skirmishers and cavalry snipers. They should be able to take out lightly armored troops quickly, and also are good at sniping cavalry from afar. Slingers should easily defeat javelin-skirmishers, and should also beat archers in a straight 1v1 fight. However, IMO slingers should have low AP damage & shouldn't do much damage against troops with heavy armor. An exception to this might be slingers with lead bullets and/or heavy shot. Units being shot by slingers should have significant morale penalties, but less of a penalty than if under fire by archers. Slingers should get an AP damage bonus if they are very close to an opponent to simulate how much more lethal slings are up close. Silven's mod used point blank range bonuses to simulate this if you'd like an example.

    Javelins are best used against infantry, period. They are not very good at other roles, but their high AP damage relative to other missile units makes them the only ranged unit that is really going to be able to kill heavy infantry quickly. They are incredibly deadly if they are able to release javelins into an enemy's flank. IMO, a javelin to the back should be insta-kill...that ish would hurt & they are designed to penetrate armor and shields.

    Archers are best used as a support role against the enemy body of infantry. While they won't be able to kill as many soldiers outright like javelin-men, they will cause a higher penalty to morale, have much longer range, and have much more ammo than javelins. Archers are also very effective against cavalry, if they are so silly as to sit around in range. Archers can hold their own for a short while against slingers, but ultimately won't be able to hold up 1v1 against the more pinpoint accuracy of the slingers. However, the one time that archers will be able to beat slingers is when they are able to make use of their firing arc. As slingers fire in a relatively shallow arc, they can't fire well over lines of troops or walls. Loose formation is especially effective against archers. Archers should be able to easily destroy javelin-skirmishers. I think archers should have very low AP damage, maybe only composite bows and longbows should have any AP damage at all. However, with the reduction in damage, you would need to make sure that the morale and cohesion penalties for a unit under fire ensure that archers have a role to play. Archers should also get a slight AP damage bonus at point blank range (to simulate higher energy of an arrow firing straight on rather than at an arc), but not as much of a bonus as slingers.

    Slingers beat archers & slingers beat javelins. However, javelins and archers are both more effective against enemy infantry & cavalry than slingers - javelins at killing and archers at suppression. Archers and javelins can both fire at a higher angle of attack than slingers, making them more effective behind the lines. Slingers pretty much need to be out front or along the flanks to have good effectiveness.

    Just some thoughts
    Last edited by wrcromartie; November 27, 2013 at 11:02 AM.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Divide Et Impera (Divide And Rule) Updated 25/11/13 (Steam version added)

    Quote Originally Posted by wrcromartie View Post
    IMO, the balance should work something like this:

    Slingers are best as anti-skirmishers and cavalry snipers. They should be able to take out lightly armored troops quickly, and also are good at sniping cavalry from afar. Slingers should easily defeat javelin-skirmishers, and should also beat archers in a straight 1v1 fight. However, IMO slingers should have low AP damage & shouldn't do much damage against troops with heavy armor. An exception to this might be slingers with lead bullets and/or heavy shot. Units being shot by slingers should have significant morale penalties, but less of a penalty than if under fire by archers. Slingers should get an AP damage bonus if they are very close to an opponent to simulate how much more lethal slings are up close. Silven's mod used point blank range bonuses to simulate this if you'd like an example.

    Javelins are best used against infantry, period. They are not very good at other roles, but their high AP damage relative to other missile units makes them the only ranged unit that is really going to be able to kill heavy infantry quickly. They are incredibly deadly if they are able to release javelins into an enemy's flank. IMO, a javelin to the back should be insta-kill...that ish would hurt & they are designed to penetrate armor and shields.

    Archers are best used as a support role against the enemy body of infantry. While they won't be able to kill as many soldiers outright like javelin-men, they will cause a higher penalty to morale, have much longer range, and have much more ammo than javelins. Archers are also very effective against cavalry, if they are so silly as to sit around in range. Archers can hold their own for a short while against slingers, but ultimately won't be able to hold up 1v1 against the more pinpoint accuracy of the slingers. However, the one time that archers will be able to beat slingers is when they are able to make use of their firing arc. As slingers fire in a relatively shallow arc, they can't fire well over lines of troops or walls. Loose formation is especially effective against archers. Archers should be able to easily destroy javelin-skirmishers. I think archers should have very low AP damage, maybe only composite bows and longbows should have any AP damage at all. However, with the reduction in damage, you would need to make sure that the morale and cohesion penalties for a unit under fire ensure that archers have a role to play. Archers should also get a slight AP damage bonus at point blank range (to simulate higher energy of an arrow firing straight on rather than at an arc), but not as much of a bonus as slingers.

    Slingers beat archers & slingers beat javelins. However, javelins and archers are both more effective against enemy infantry & cavalry than slingers - javelins at killing and archers at suppression. Archers and javelins can both fire at a higher angle of attack than slingers, making them more effective behind the lines. Slingers pretty much need to be out front or along the flanks to have good effectiveness.

    Just some thoughts
    This is interesting.

    Thanks for your feedback, will see to include something similar (or all if possible).

    EDIT:

    One thing about Silven's mod however. While the author writes about "Point Blank Range Bonuses" there's actually no bonus on lower range. There's just a penalty on the spread if the range is above the one used (for example slings have a range of 40 meters, above this spread happens, but it is not that below this you can put a bonus to damage) . There's nothing in the engine that can make you do more damage at a close range, just decrease accuracy on higher ranges.
    Last edited by Selea; November 27, 2013 at 12:19 PM.

  15. #15
    dom385's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Divide Et Impera (Divide And Rule) Updated 25/11/13 (Steam version added)

    If you do include kalziels reskin will you still use your colour scheme? I thought it added some nice variety having roman units that weren't red.

  16. #16
    GRANTO's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Divide Et Impera (Divide And Rule) Updated 25/11/13 (Steam version added)

    do i just put the new pack{update} in with old 2 and tick it on mod manager?

  17. #17

    Default Re: Divide Et Impera (Divide And Rule) Updated 25/11/13 (Steam version added)

    Quote Originally Posted by GRANTO View Post
    do i just put the new pack{update} in with old 2 and tick it on mod manager?
    No, this version and STeam one are two different packs.

    If you download from here the pack contains both versions. We had to separate the pack for Steam because the maximum upload there is 200 mb and the full pack is about 210.

    The update on Steam will be done later.

  18. #18
    GRANTO's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Divide Et Impera (Divide And Rule) Updated 25/11/13 (Steam version added)

    Quote Originally Posted by Selea View Post
    No, this version and STeam one are two different packs.

    If you download from here the pack contains both versions. We had to separate the pack for Steam because the maximum upload there is 200 mb and the full pack is about 210.

    The update on Steam will be done later.
    cheers for that +rep

  19. #19

    Default Re: Divide Et Impera (Divide And Rule) Updated 25/11/13 (Steam version added)

    The roman javelins are next to useless. Before they used to be so OP they could kill entire units, now they don't even kill 10 with all their ammo at light infantry. I can see the javelins hit the enemies then just sticks to them like nothing happened..
    If you could increase their kill ratio a bit so I can start using them again. Right now they are useless. Except for morale decrease.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Divide Et Impera (Divide And Rule) Updated 25/11/13 (Steam version added)

    Quote Originally Posted by xernoxis View Post
    The roman javelins are next to useless. Before they used to be so OP they could kill entire units, now they don't even kill 10 with all their ammo at light infantry. I can see the javelins hit the enemies then just sticks to them like nothing happened..
    If you could increase their kill ratio a bit so I can start using them again. Right now they are useless. Except for morale decrease.
    Are you kidding me?

    No seriously because this is really wrong.

    Pila are exteremely powerful ffs. I sometimes don't understand what you people are doing. You get easily from 20 to 30 kills with Pila on a charge, against heavy infantry.

    If you talk about Javelins (normal missile infantry) then you can be right, I already said I will look into it next, but if you talk about Pila then you are completely wrong.

    I just made a battle before releasing this new version of Averni vs. Romans and the Romans killed with Pila almost 10% of the total units, I even thought they were too strong since the HP is reduced...

    Oh well.
    Last edited by Selea; November 27, 2013 at 11:10 AM.

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