Divide et Impera (Divide & Rule) - Main Thread

**Épaminondas The "Oblique"** · November 25, 2013, 04:43 PM

Can some of you guys test it and report ?

This is important because the aim of this new version is to make battle last longer by lowering the killing rates. So casualties are less common but fatigue and flanking have huge impact like IRL.

Now you will use your Triple Axies formation even more !

**Cochus1** · November 25, 2013, 05:02 PM

u should touch the germany faction graphics as well. Some variations on helmets and armors in the bloodsworns for example (adding some versions with less armor like in the gallic warriors case and some of the vanilla helmets). Btw, odin spearmen have heavy armor but the stats of light armor, its a bit confuse too

**Spanish Doctor** · November 25, 2013, 05:18 PM

This looks amazing. Just two questions:

1. Does this mod replace AGA completely?

2. Is it compatible with a saved game which was already using AGA? Or do I have to start a new campaing?

Thank you very much!

**Socktu** · November 25, 2013, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by Spanish Doctor

This looks amazing. Just two questions:

1. Does this mod replace AGA completely?

2. Is it compatible with a saved game which was already using AGA? Or do I have to start a new campaing?

Thank you very much!

1. Not completely, however it is born from AGA. AGA is a seperate thing now, I think. Same battlemod as Divide, but Divide offers more dynamics/graphics and an overhaul on campaign/diplomatic stuff now. It's basically a complete overhaul of the game as time goes.

2. No. It isn't compatible to my knowledge, as Divide changes the startpos and adds many alterations.

**wrcromartie** · November 25, 2013, 06:00 PM

Feedback on V4:

It seems the morale changes in this build are quite extreme & perhaps too pronounced. I am seeing elite general unit rout without any casualties (in fairness, they were flanked and pretty much doomed, but still you'd hope they'd make at least an attempt at fighting).

While its most important to balance mechanics for high level play, I find that this version is making things very easy for the player versus an AI. Its pretty easy for us to quickly micromanage kinks in the battle lines to get flanking penalties, and if the morale hit is able to rout the ai units before they have any chance to adjust.

I definitely like what you're going for - a prolonged melee that changes abruptly to a slaughter when the positioning changes. Respectfully, I think its a little too pronounced in this build & there should be more bonus to kill rate while flanking and a lhigher morale so that units end up dying much faster while flanked, but don't rout so immediately that there is no chance for the commander to correct things.

As you've read from me before, I think they should also die much faster while shattered - did you find if there is a way to add penalties to shattered units? CA posted that they changed those values once in patch notes, that's why I always yap about that.

I do like now how crucial it is to keep your phalanx lines tight, or your phalangites will break quick. No complaints there, as phalanx has been steadily feeling more & more powerful. (I admit I liked the strong pikes because I'm playing Selukid Campaign

]

**Homewrecker** · November 25, 2013, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by wrcromartie

Feedback on V4:

It seems the morale changes in this build are quite extreme & perhaps too pronounced. I am seeing elite general unit rout without any casualties (in fairness, they were flanked and pretty much doomed, but still you'd hope they'd make at least an attempt at fighting).

While its most important to balance mechanics for high level play, I find that this version is making things very easy for the player versus an AI. Its pretty easy for us to quickly micromanage kinks in the battle lines to get flanking penalties, and if the morale hit is able to rout the ai units before they have any chance to adjust.

I definitely like what you're going for - a prolonged melee that changes abruptly to a slaughter when the positioning changes. Respectfully, I think its a little too pronounced in this build & there should be more bonus to kill rate while flanking and a lhigher morale so that units end up dying much faster while flanked, but don't rout so immediately that there is no chance for the commander to correct things.

As you've read from me before, I think they should also die much faster while shattered - did you find if there is a way to add penalties to shattered units? CA posted that they changed those values once in patch notes, that's why I always yap about that.

I do like now how crucial it is to keep your phalanx lines tight, or your phalangites will break quick. No complaints there, as phalanx has been steadily feeling more & more powerful. (I admit I liked the strong pikes because I'm playing Selukid Campaign

]

I'd have to agree. I was just fighting a town defense where I had my Rorarii in spear wall holding a chokepoint, and they charged front on with horsemen. My lines held, but at some point one of my units routed for no reason; my units were easily holding the line and yet one full unit up and ran. Additionally, one of their units broke and one of my Rorarii units chased after it, and then immediately routed because the remaining enemy unit had them "flanked"; in reality, and they simply turned around after giving chase to the routing unit they would have completely surrounded the enemy.

On a side note, is there any thought of releasing this mod in modules so that we could pick and choose between aspects (maybe even just battle tweaks vs campaign/roster tweaks). I really love the flavor, reskins, and roster changes you guys have made but I'm not sure I will end up enjoying the combat if the intent is to have units route extremely quickly. Either way, a modular mod (heh) would be great.

**Antikas Karios** · November 25, 2013, 07:50 PM

Originally Posted by wrcromartie

Feedback on V4:

It seems the morale changes in this build are quite extreme & perhaps too pronounced. I am seeing elite general unit rout without any casualties (in fairness, they were flanked and pretty much doomed, but still you'd hope they'd make at least an attempt at fighting).

While its most important to balance mechanics for high level play, I find that this version is making things very easy for the player versus an AI. Its pretty easy for us to quickly micromanage kinks in the battle lines to get flanking penalties, and if the morale hit is able to rout the ai units before they have any chance to adjust.

I definitely like what you're going for - a prolonged melee that changes abruptly to a slaughter when the positioning changes. Respectfully, I think its a little too pronounced in this build & there should be more bonus to kill rate while flanking and a lhigher morale so that units end up dying much faster while flanked, but don't rout so immediately that there is no chance for the commander to correct things.

I agree wholeheartedly I like the idea but in execution it just seems off, lots of goofy things happen. If two units of Hoplites in Phalanx formation fight each other from the front they can fight for minutes at a time with less than 5 or so casualties or even 0 and they tend to rout after losing about 10 men. Although I have seen them rout with all of them still alive. In one battle I had 3 full units of Athenian Hoplites fighting 1 unit of Epirate General Cav, after almost 10 full minutes the Hoplites had taken 4 casualties between 3 units and killed 18 cavalrymen, and all 3 Hoplites had broken, fled, stabilised and reengaged multiple times each.

**Iperione** · November 25, 2013, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by Antikas Karios

I agree wholeheartedly I like the idea but in execution it just seems off, lots of goofy things happen. If two units of Hoplites in Phalanx formation fight each other from the front they can fight for minutes at a time with less than 5 or so casualties or even 0 and they tend to rout after losing about 10 men. Although I have seen them rout with all of them still alive. In one battle I had 3 full units of Athenian Hoplites fighting 1 unit of Epirate General Cav, after almost 10 full minutes the Hoplites had taken 4 casualties between 3 units and killed 18 cavalrymen, and all 3 Hoplites had broken, fled, stabilised and reengaged multiple times each.

I agree too. Please, restore the old moral system, guys, it worked very well!

**Selea** · November 26, 2013, 02:27 AM

Originally Posted by Antikas Karios

I agree wholeheartedly I like the idea but in execution it just seems off, lots of goofy things happen. If two units of Hoplites in Phalanx formation fight each other from the front they can fight for minutes at a time with less than 5 or so casualties or even 0 and they tend to rout after losing about 10 men. Although I have seen them rout with all of them still alive. In one battle I had 3 full units of Athenian Hoplites fighting 1 unit of Epirate General Cav, after almost 10 full minutes the Hoplites had taken 4 casualties between 3 units and killed 18 cavalrymen, and all 3 Hoplites had broken, fled, stabilised and reengaged multiple times each.

I will tweak a little the flanking bonuses but for what it concerns the casualties this is what really happened in a battle.

Units broke not for casualties but for the shock of combat.

**Selea** · November 26, 2013, 03:16 AM

Divide et Impera 0.4a:
http://www.mediafire.com/?n8404nz8fa271f4

- Lowered morale flanking and rear penalties because it was too easy to win the AI and also because they were too harsh and caused issues sometimes with units routing seemingly without motive
- Resolved issue on some mercenary units having greater charge bonuses that they should have had.

**Antikas Karios** · November 26, 2013, 05:26 AM

Originally Posted by Selea

I will tweak a little the flanking bonuses but for what it concerns the casualties this is what really happened in a battle.

Units broke not for casualties but for the shock of combat.

Yes this is what happened. What did not happen was fighting for extended periods of time with 2 or 3 people per side being killed or wounded on either side. The problem isn't that most of the men are still alive when they break, the problem is they were fighting for an extended period of time before that with almost no casualties.

**Antikas Karios** · November 26, 2013, 05:29 AM

Originally Posted by Antikas Karios

Yes this is what happened. What did not happen was fighting for extended periods of time with 2 or 3 people per side being killed or wounded on either side. The problem isn't that most of the men are still alive when they break, the problem is they were fighting for an extended period of time before that with almost no casualties.

Can't figure out how to edit so I guess I'll just double post. Yes being charged in the Rear by Shock Cav whilst fighting should almost instantly break a unit, what it should NOT do however is only cause 2 deaths.

**Selea** · November 26, 2013, 05:43 AM

Originally Posted by Antikas Karios

Yes this is what happened. What did not happen was fighting for extended periods of time with 2 or 3 people per side being killed or wounded on either side. The problem isn't that most of the men are still alive when they break, the problem is they were fighting for an extended period of time before that with almost no casualties.

Do you think in a battle men are killed in 2 seconds? Because elsewhere you think wrong. Do you know how much it takes to kill a man? And do you think one will simply stand there having himself killed before he routs?

Casualties were really really low in real battles; most of the people routed simply, sometimes just for the fear without either a single casualty.

I thought that decreasing killing rates was a thing most of the people would enjoy, it seem I was wrong and people simply like massacring left and right even if that never happened for real.