to Sunni Muslims, question regarding the Caliphs.

[Toho]

so with Rome 2 out, I was really hoping that Barbarian Invasion expansion (hopefully it happens) would cover the spread of Christianity and Islam.
now as a person that was raised in Shia community I would have to say we never talked about the caliphs very much or considered them at all holy.
so what about the sunni muslims? do you consider the caliphs as just regular men who happen to be kings or some divine imams or etc...?

just wanted to know in a TW setting if the Franks conquer Mecca there wont be a riot on the forums

[Heavy Weapons Guy]

Rashidun Caliphs were 100% rightful, others not so (maybe with few exceptions). Next Caliph Mahdi (In Shaa Allah he will come soon), and the last, Jesus (pbuh) will be also 100% rightful as well.

[kamikazee786]

We dont consider them Infallible. We do believe that they are Imams because all Imam means is someone who is "infront" or "ahead", in this case it refers to leadership of the muslims. We respect and revere them fervently due to the amount of help they gave to the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) throughout his life. We also credit them with the early expansion of the Islamic Empire.

As to the franks conquering mecca, i can see how it'd be a sensitive and provocative to some but not to me.

BTW Im a practicing muslim and i love the tw series, apart from their past few releases ofcourse

[hameem123]

so with Rome 2 out, I was really hoping that Barbarian Invasion expansion (hopefully it happens) would cover the spread of Christianity and Islam.
now as a person that was raised in Shia community I would have to say we never talked about the caliphs very much or considered them at all holy.
so what about the sunni muslims? do you consider the caliphs as just regular men who happen to be kings or some divine imams or etc...?

just wanted to know in a TW setting if the Franks conquer Mecca there wont be a riot on the forums

the 4 Rashidun Caliph or the called "4 Righteous Caliphs" is considered as humans just like us but they are very highly respected because if the Rasul (S.A.W.) is respecting his Sahaba's then how come not us? and thru this 4 Caliph is only the best time a Khilafah was ruled accordingly and very correctly. (btw I don't understand why the Shia slander Abu Bakr and Umar [PBUT])

and if you say a Roman Nation (America's/European) conquer Makkah or Madinah? you will not only have a riot here on the forums but a real massive scale war,the disrespectful cheap movie that slanders the Prophet has made such a big effect to the Muslim world where every Muslim protested,imagine if its about Militarily damaging Makkah and the Holy Masjid,the whole 2 Billion Muslim population will cry in war it will be a total disaster for those who plan to establish New World Order because they know they cannot handle such thing if it happened. (sorry, I did not realize its about Total War Setting this part of the post is about real life........maybe there will be some feelings but in the end this is just a game.)

[Toho]

the 4 Rashidun Caliph or the called "4 Righteous Caliphs" is considered as humans just like us but they are very highly respected because if the Rasul (S.A.W.) is respecting his Sahaba's then how come not us? and thru this 4 Caliph is only the best time a Khilafah was ruled accordingly and very correctly. (btw I don't understand why the Shia slander Abu Bakr and Umar [PBUT])

and if you say a Roman Nation (America's/European) conquer Makkah or Madinah? you will not only have a riot here on the forums but a real massive scale war,the disrespectful cheap movie that slanders the Prophet has made such a big effect to the Muslim world where every Muslim protested,imagine if its about Militarily damaging Makkah and the Holy Masjid,the whole 2 Billion Muslim population will cry in war it will be a total disaster for those who plan to establish New World Order because they know they cannot handle such thing if it happened. (sorry, I did not realize its about Total War Setting this part of the post is about real life........maybe there will be some feelings but in the end this is just a game.)

The shia dont consider the Caliphs legitimate though besides Yazid I dont think they slander anyone else then I am not really a part of the religious crowed so I would not know.
but yea I was talking the game... I doubt we would see riots in the streets because they made the arabs after the death of the prophet a faction in TW.

alright lets say someone makes a mod or CA actually puts the time frame that arab armies are coming out of the Arabian peninsula and lets say the player who is playing as rome or persia defeats these generals and kills them in battle or executes them when they are captured. would that be offensive in a game setting? I doubt the Shias would care as long as the Prophet or his family were uninvolved but I am not sure about sunnis so thats why I am asking.

[Kirbside]

The shia dont consider the Caliphs legitimate though besides Yazid I dont think they slander anyone else then I am not really a part of the religious crowed so I would not know.
but yea I was talking the game... I doubt we would see riots in the streets because they made the arabs after the death of the prophet a faction in TW.

alright lets say someone makes a mod or CA actually puts the time frame that arab armies are coming out of the Arabian peninsula and lets say the player who is playing as rome or persia defeats these generals and kills them in battle or executes them when they are captured. would that be offensive in a game setting? I doubt the Shias would care as long as the Prophet or his family were uninvolved but I am not sure about sunnis so thats why I am asking.

It's just game so if you ask me, I don't really mind because I doubt anyone would believe it and conquering it isn't the priority of the game. You can always change the victory condition if you want though.

[Trueman.]

Someone on the East of Rome mod started a thread about this, it's pretty much futile to discuss it, I'm pretty sure this will only bring a prolonged and useless argument. I, for one, honestly don't care, it's just a game, if anyone finds a problem with how the game deals with this, they're free to, you know, not playing the game?
Also as the majority of Iraq is Shi'ia, I can say the more frantic ones hate the Caliphs who led the Muslims passionately, even the good ones like Al-Muhtadi, Al-Nasir and Omar bin Abdul-Aziz, solely because they think they usurped the Twelve Imams rightful place. As for the Sunna, some hold them in holy position, like the Wahhabism branch, and consider anyone who goes against them a heretic, other branches like Shafi'i consider them normal men, and judge them by their piety and how they led Muslims. I don't know a lot about the other branches, like Hanballi, Hanafi, Maliki, and Zahiri, but I believe the first two share the same thought on Caliphs as the Wahhabism branch, while Malikis share their belief with the Shafi'i branch. I don't think this is 100% accurate, though.

[hameem123]

Someone on the East of Rome mod started a thread about this, it's pretty much futile to discuss it, I'm pretty sure this will only bring a prolonged and useless argument. I, for one, honestly don't care, it's just a game, if anyone finds a problem with how the game deals with this, they're free to, you know, not playing the game?
Also as the majority of Iraq is Shi'ia, I can say the more frantic ones hate the Caliphs who led the Muslims passionately, even the good ones like Al-Muhtadi, Al-Nasir and Omar bin Abdul-Aziz, solely because they think they usurped the Twelve Imams rightful place. As for the Sunna, some hold them in holy position, like the Wahhabism branch, and consider anyone who goes against them a heretic, other branches like Shafi'i consider them normal men, and judge them by their piety and how they led Muslims. I don't know a lot about the other branches, like Hanballi, Hanafi, Maliki, and Zahiri, but I believe the first two share the same thought on Caliphs as the Wahhabism branch, while Malikis share their belief with the Shafi'i branch. I don't think this is 100% accurate, though.

been watching East of Rome mod and i could see for a very long time and even today they don't give attention and importance to the "The Caliphate" faction because its just an emergent faction for them and they are not yet near on finishing the Major factions.....about Iraq being Shia,are we talking about the present or the majority past? as far as i know Iraq only became majority Shia right when Saddam was killed and USA gave to Iran the control of Iraq in terms of governing.

[Trueman.]

The discussion was old on EoR, people kept arguing about how will they deal with the Muslim generals appearing, and how their portraits would look like, I believe Toho was involved in it, too.
Plus, Iraq didn't go into major conversion from Shi'i to Sunni after Saddam died, the Sunnis have always been a minority in Iraq, only three provinces of Iraq have a significant amount of Sunnis, Anbar, Mosul, and Baghdad. The Shi'ia were oppressed during Saddam's reign, but that doesn't mean they were Sunni, they were only forbidden to practice their religion in public.
Evident of that is the 1991 revolution by the Shi'ia, after the Iraqi army was kicked out of Kuwait, the Iraqi Shi'ia took control of 14 out of 18 provinces of Iraq, before the rebellion was crushed using chemical weapons and mechanized units.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Iraq

[hameem123]

The discussion was old on EoR, people kept arguing about how will they deal with the Muslim generals appearing, and how their portraits would look like, I believe Toho was involved in it, too.
Plus, Iraq didn't go into major conversion from Shi'i to Sunni after Saddam died, the Sunnis have always been a minority in Iraq, only three provinces of Iraq have a significant amount of Sunnis, Anbar, Mosul, and Baghdad. The Shi'ia were oppressed during Saddam's reign, but that doesn't mean they were Sunni, they were only forbidden to practice their religion in public.
Evident of that is the 1991 revolution by the Shi'ia, after the Iraqi army was kicked out of Kuwait, the Iraqi Shi'ia took control of 14 out of 18 provinces of Iraq, before the rebellion was crushed using chemical weapons and mechanized units.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Iraq

thanks for information,i could see that areas in the North-East which are close to Iran have the high percentage of Shia's.....while parts in the Middle-South are Sunni,about that Yazids? i don't know about them.

[Trueman.]

Actually, north-east is mostly Sunni Kurds, Shi'a are concentrated in the south. Most of northern Iraq is dominated by Sunni Kurds, I don't know much about Yazidis, considering they're a one figure digit on the demographics of Iraq, but I'd guess they're also prevalent in the north. Around Mosul, I believe.

[nein]

What is going on in this thread? Also the crusaders can conquer mecca in this mod, you receive a notification video if it happens.

[deus_eggs]

I'm an apostate and stopped believing in religion for personal reasons, but from a Sunni Muslim background the people who took religion seriously (which was many of them) they felt some sort of holy connection to the caliphs. There was also a prevalence of regarding Arabs as a superior noble race and being revered. In the country that I was in, no one was ethnically Arab (of course excluding a tiny population who stopped speaking Arabic) but they almost sought a blood connection to them, with everyone and their cousin claiming they were "Sayyid".

[m_1512]

Probably what the OP is trying to say is what might happen if a Byzantine faction in the game captures those cities. Will it have a riot on these forums?

Either way, how is this relevant here? This is more of Rome 2 discussion stuff.

[Trueman.]

Doesn't Sayyid usually mean someone descendant from the Shi'ia imams? That's generally what it means in Iraq. People also consider Arabs hailing from Quraish holy and pious.

[nein]

Yes deus there is alot of arab supremacism in the quran, my favourite part is when they describe the prophet: ''Look at how pale his armpit is! Behold his red hair!'' kind of stuff, another funny part is when muhammad claims his tribe is the master of arabs... Quraysh or something?

[hameem123]

I don't know what you people are talking about,here in our place we don't see Arabs as superior or something and having Arab blood or not doesn't matter,maybe its just all about your people and your culture and how they see stuff,but that doesn't mean it applies to everyone.....@nein what are you talking about? its the Quraish who said such claims,they made this claims during the time they were still Pagan,they said they are the Master of the Arabs because their Tribe was big and strong and very influential and most of all they are dubbed "Keeper of the House of God" the Kaabah.

The Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم) said: "An Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor does a non-Arab have any superiority over an Arab; also a white person has no superiority over black person nor does a black person have any superiority over white person except by piety and good action. Mankind is from Aadam (عليه السلام) and Aadam is from soil." (Sharh al-Tahhaawiyyah)

[nein]

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur'an,_Ha...cholars:Racism

[ROYAL SIPHAI]

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur'an,_Ha...cholars:Racism

WikiIslam????

Hahhahaha your a joke.

[nein]

Can you explain, intelligently, why you think it is a bad source?