Question about diplomacy

**MarshallNole** · November 11, 2013, 11:15 AM

So I read through Vampirebane's guide to diplomacy. I am currently at war with about 4 factions, all of which declared war on me, and I decided I wanted to try to make some allies or cease hostilities. I went to a neutral faction with my diplomat and tried the described 100 gold gift to boost relations. At first I'd get the 'Just Rejected' message, but if I tried a second or third time they would say they weren't interested and all negotiations would cease.

Is this because my reputation isn't high enough? I can't remember off the top of my head what it is, but I am excommunicated and I typically execute prisoners. I thought I Was following the instructions but not once did relations boost, in fact, they got worse.

**Axis Sunsoar** · November 11, 2013, 11:47 AM

As you're engaged in diplomacy, you can see at the bottom of the screen whether or not you're making a good offer. Also, if your first offer is declined, try changing it slightly. (Trade rights are always a good place to start, everybody loves trade rights)

**UndrState** · November 11, 2013, 11:49 AM

Well, yes, if you are getting "just rejected" and then trying the same action, it won't help things. Easy solution, up the first offer to 200 Florin and then that'll put them into a good mood, and the following offers of 100 florin will succeed.

Having a bad Reputation won't help, but I think this problem has more to do with Relations (a.k.a. Standing) with that faction. Even when I have excellent Reputation, I will sometimes run into the same problem with factions that are neutral or at war with.

To play a strong diplomatic game, you've got to keep control of your relationship with the Pope. Kiss his ass. I always have a diplomate @ Rome, and I rarely have a turn where I don't give the Pope some money. If you do it right, every 100 florins you spend on diplomacy you'll save 200 on not having to maintain large standing armys all the time.

Playing Dark Side has it's advantages, but also it's price.

Who are you playing as right now, and who is at war with you?

How earnestly are those who are at war with you attacking you?

The reason I ask is that you may want to start suing for peace with someone who doesn't have his heart in attacking you right now. Maybe they're at war with someone more dangerous, or with more tempting settlements. If this sounds like one of your enemies, I would start giving them some cash to warm them around to the idea of making peace. Try to only fight them in your own territory. Play nice, it's worth it.

**MarshallNole** · November 11, 2013, 03:05 PM

I am currently at war with the HRE, Denmark, Spain. I am England.

Denmark attacks agressively, as does Spain, but I don't think the HRE has attacked me anywhere other than the seas. I will send a diplomat their way.

**MarshallNole** · November 12, 2013, 11:10 AM

I guess I am just not getting it. Are you supposed to offer the 100 gold as a gift, or do you actually click the 'Make Offer' button? When I offer as a gift, they accept it all day, but relations do not improve. When I offer using 'Make Offer' they reject it.

**UndrState** · November 12, 2013, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by MarshallNole

When I offer as a gift, they accept it all day, but relations do not improve.

Gift! And yes, even if relations are Abysmal, every gift improves relations, even if you cannot see the effects right away - patience and persistence pays.

**MarshallNole** · November 13, 2013, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by UndrState

Gift! And yes, even if relations are Abysmal, every gift improves relations, even if you cannot see the effects right away - patience and persistence pays.

Are you supposed to offer 100 florins per turn or can you do several transactions of 100 florins per turn?

**UndrState** · November 13, 2013, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by MarshallNole

Are you supposed to offer 100 florins per turn or can you do several transactions of 100 florins per turn?

You can make as many transactions in a diplomatic encounter as you want IIRC, as long as you keep the other faction at the table. The point Vampiresbane is making is that it is more effecient to your relations to gift 5 seperate times in one turn 100 florins than once in a turn 500 florins. The more you spend, the more effect you will get.

I'll give you an example - My diplomat goes to visit the Pope; we're on Very Good terms, and I want to improve that; I intend to spend 500 florins, because that's about all I can afford right now; so, 5 times I will use the "Make Single Payment" option and gift them 100 florins.

You can use the "Regular Tribute" option, but as Vampiresbane points out, it's less effective than taking the time each turn to make the payment with diplomats. That means I usually have a diplomat at each of my allies nearest cities, and most other factions too.

**Nzg** · November 12, 2013, 12:28 PM

As a gift. If you offer money not as a gift and do not ask for anything(and the other faction has nothing it can/want to offer) the money is rejected.

Also, diplomacy with a faction that is allied to one of your enemies is hard, they usually decline all your offers except gifts.

**MarshallNole** · November 12, 2013, 01:17 PM

It seems I can win without diplomacy. I will try again in my next campaign, but so far it has made zero difference in how other factions view me.

**Friedrich Ironhide** · November 13, 2013, 11:04 AM

Another good way to maintain peace; have your border cities garrisoned. Seriously, the AI just can't help itself. If you leave a city relatively unprotected, even if you are much more powerful, often times you will be attacked anyway. The result is that you find yourself in a bunch of wars you don't want to be in.

Build watchtowers all throughout your empire so that yo can see enemy movement. If an enemy army gets within striking distance of one of your cities, re-enforce it quickly. They will likely leave you alone. If you don't you will likely find yourself at war.

**UndrState** · November 13, 2013, 11:49 AM

Yup, I have to agree; I'm also a big fan of forts for the same reason. Keeping friends and neutrals away from temptation is in everyone's best interest, and forts in or near transition points at the borders. Besides, I thought I read somewhere (not in Vampiresbane's guide) that allies like you having troops near their borders, so that you can assist when they are attacked. I always ally myself with Hungary when I play as the HRE, and part of my success (they are often long time friends) is keeping the Vienna/Budapest border well guarded.

**Nzg** · November 19, 2013, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by UndrState

Besides, I thought I read somewhere (not in Vampiresbane's guide) that allies like you having troops near their borders, so that you can assist when they are attacked. I always ally myself with Hungary when I play as the HRE, and part of my success (they are often long time friends) is keeping the Vienna/Budapest border well guarded.

Funny thing, when I play Poland, and ally Hungary I usually keep Krakow well protected(3/4 full stack at mimimum). Hungary ALLWAYS attack Krakow, no matter what, even when their chances are very low. Another thing is that Milan will allways attack you. I never had a game when Milan didn't attack me, even with no chances of succes.

I can agree thou, that usually keeping large garrisons near borders keeps others away, but well, you don't allways have the time/resources to do it.

**MarshallNole** · November 13, 2013, 01:47 PM

Yeah I have been building forts near my cities on the border. It at least gives me an extra turn or two to move armies near there if attacked.

**UndrState** · November 19, 2013, 09:33 PM

Have to ask, what are your relations with Hungary like? And your Reputation?

**Nzg** · November 21, 2013, 05:54 PM

I had good relations and mid/good rep(can't really remember now), I tend to ally Hunragians as soon as possible and aid them because of their proximity to my "unguarded" lands. The pope was also happy(elected from Poland). Hungary attacks Krakow, sometimes it starts with Iasi. Maybe they do it because they really don't have any expansion options? Funny thing is that my strongest alliance is with russia(marriage at the begining of the game), thou I never really go with Poland east, I tent to play west-south.

**UndrState** · November 21, 2013, 08:54 PM

Well, it may be cold comfort now, but I think one of the reasons I've had success with keeping Hungary peaceful when I play as the HRE or Milan is by converting the Byzantines' territory with priest bombs - I think it makes it a more tempting target for Hungary because the hard work has been done and there won't be any religious based revolt.

**Nzg** · November 21, 2013, 09:06 PM

Hmm, when playing HRE Hungary is usually my best ally. When I can't get the French princess to mary my heir(for sole purpose of her charm and slower diplomacy of France), I get the Hungarian one(get's you good money and keeps relations high).

**SirRobin** · November 28, 2013, 06:09 AM

I'm starting a house rule: never play the 100 gold per offer trick. If I want to give 500, I give 500 in one go.

I know it's more efficient to give in small portions, but I feel it's "gaming the system" and also it's just too damn tedious to sit there and click all day long