Moving units in formation

[MarshallNole]

Is there a way to make all units advance and hold their formation? If I select all and right click an area they all move to that spot and break formation. The results of my google search are making me think this isn't possible.

[Maklodes]

If you put them all in a group (pressing the group button, pressing G, or ctrl + number), they should stay in formation when you move the group itself.

[UndrState]

Sorry, I'm a little fuzzy on what you are asking. If you mean that when your units are walking (or running), your cavalry starts to leave your infantry units behind, then I'm not sure there's much you can do about that... except you could control that by using Waypoints, so your cavalry will stop and wait for the rest to catch up at each waypoint; or, make the infantry run while the cavalry run.

Ok, if MarshallNole is talking about the Group Formations 1-8 then, yes, he's right you need to be in a group to use those.

However, if you want to use a Custom Formation, the units need to be placed where you would like them, relative to one another, and then moved Without being in a group (obviously, all selected though - moving one at a time would suck).

I'll give you an example: If you've read the article about the Proper Use of Pikes, which I'm a big fan of, you'll know that pikes work best when used with units directly overlapping them. So if you put one pike unit and a pike militia unit on top, group them, and then tell them to move to another location, the two units will seperate and end up side by side at the destination. However, if they are not grouped, they will move together, and arrive at the destination exactly as they set out.

Another instance where I use this kind of technique is when I want to have several units move together, but with a couple units on the flanks facing right and left; that way, if I start to get flanked while moving, I just have to order them all units to stop and I already have units facing in the right direction.

One warning, though, when using this - you cannot resize your lines, i.e. when you are using the Group Formations 1-8 you can right click-and-hold to make the ranks shorter or longer as you like, however if you try and do this with ungrouped units it will treat them like they are in the simple "Single Line" formation.

Hope that helps.

[MarshallNole]

Sorry, I'm a little fuzzy on what you are asking. If you mean that when your units are walking (or running), your cavalry starts to leave your infantry units behind, then I'm not sure there's much you can do about that... except you could control that by using Waypoints, so your cavalry will stop and wait for the rest to catch up at each waypoint; or, make the infantry run while the cavalry run.

Ok, if MarshallNole is talking about the Group Formations 1-8 then, yes, he's right you need to be in a group to use those.

However, if you want to use a Custom Formation, the units need to be placed where you would like them, relative to one another, and then moved Without being in a group (obviously, all selected though - moving one at a time would suck).

I'll give you an example: If you've read the article about the Proper Use of Pikes, which I'm a big fan of, you'll know that pikes work best when used with units directly overlapping them. So if you put one pike unit and a pike militia unit on top, group them, and then tell them to move to another location, the two units will seperate and end up side by side at the destination. However, if they are not grouped, they will move together, and arrive at the destination exactly as they set out.

Another instance where I use this kind of technique is when I want to have several units move together, but with a couple units on the flanks facing right and left; that way, if I start to get flanked while moving, I just have to order them all units to stop and I already have units facing in the right direction.

One warning, though, when using this - you cannot resize your lines, i.e. when you are using the Group Formations 1-8 you can right click-and-hold to make the ranks shorter or longer as you like, however if you try and do this with ungrouped units it will treat them like they are in the simple "Single Line" formation.

Hope that helps.

Kind of confused now.

Basically here is what I want: Say I am attacking an enemy in open field. Before the battle begins, I deploy my units and set them in the formations I want with the layout I want. When I advance on the enemy, I want them to STAY in the initial formation I had them in. I don't want to select them all, click on a spot on the field, then have them all bunch up on that one spot.

[UndrState]

... I deploy my units and set them in the formations I want with the layout I want. When I advance on the enemy, I want them to STAY in the initial formation I had them in. I don't want to select them all, click on a spot on the field, then have them all bunch up on that one spot.

How you are setting them in the formations you want is the key question.

1) Are you using [G]roups?

2) Are you using Shift+number (1-8) with these groups i.e. the Group Formations built into the game?

3) Are you placing units manually in a unique setup that you want them to maintain?

Answer me this and it'll help me understand and I'll clarify my answer to you Promise.

[MarshallNole]

How you are setting them in the formations you want is the key question.

1) Are you using [G]roups?

2) Are you using Shift+number (1-8) with these groups i.e. the Group Formations built into the game?

3) Are you placing units manually in a unique setup that you want them to maintain?

Answer me this and it'll help me understand and I'll clarify my answer to you Promise.

I apologize for not being clear.

I am setting the units manually. I click a unit, move it to where I want him, etc. Then I start the battle.

Thank you all for the input. I will try to group/ungroup/group technique and then clicking and dragging them. I hadn't tried that. I just selected them all, hit G, then right clicked a single point. That did not seem to work.

[SRACon17]

Kind of confused now.

Basically here is what I want: Say I am attacking an enemy in open field. Before the battle begins, I deploy my units and set them in the formations I want with the layout I want. When I advance on the enemy, I want them to STAY in the initial formation I had them in. I don't want to select them all, click on a spot on the field, then have them all bunch up on that one spot.

Here's how you do it. Deploy your units to the formation you want. Press Ctrl+A to select all of your units, then press [G] to group all of your units. I usually press [G] three times to group, ungroup, then group them again. After they had been grouped, start the battle. To move your army formation, just right click and drag on the point you want them to move to. You'll see that they'll stay in the formation in which you deployed them. Hope this helps

[Gurak]

...select all of your units, then press [G] to group all of your units. I usually press [G] three times to group, ungroup, then group them again...

I found this thread after a catastrophic large battle in which I grouped my whole army using Ctrl +1, then started the battle, clicked 1 to select the group and then clicked about halfway between the two armies.
Strangely my half my army started to march to the right and when I hit SPACE to see the final destination, I saw that it was all over the place!
Selecting the whole group and trying to drag to a new location just made things worse!
I was cut to ribbons while trying to get my forces organized.


I have seen several time instructions that you should group and ungroup several times, as you noted.
I've never seen the reason for it before, but without it, it seems grouped custom formations can be inconsistent.

I just tried it out in a custom battle however and everything worked flawlessly, so this seems to be the key!
Thanks for that!
+1 rep

[Friedrich Ironhide]

Here's how you do it. Deploy your units to the formation you want. Press Ctrl+A to select all of your units, then press [G] to group all of your units. I usually press [G] three times to group, ungroup, then group them again. After they had been grouped, start the battle. To move your army formation, just right click and drag on the point you want them to move to. You'll see that they'll stay in the formation in which you deployed them. Hope this helps

Thanks a lot. I had actually spent a good while looking for specifically how to do this. The major problem I use to have would be that, while my units would (for the most part) keep their formation, they would be tilted in all types of stupid angles. Playing vs the AI is one thing as you can pause all you want. Playing online vs good human players is different.

Distance matters and there is no time to pause.

Brainstorming for tournament ideas....How about you start with a high period Scotland nuub box of pikeman built pre-battle...take 4 units of border horses and group it with your general on the left flank. Have your pikes out of "spear wall" formation so that they can move fast. And MOST importantly set them into loose formation so as to hide your intentions. Do the same with all of your infantry. Also, do the classic heavy infantry-pike overlap.

As soon as the battle starts take your pre-constructed (but almost impossible to detect as it is in loose formation) nub box and sprint it to just in front of the enemy. All my opponent will see is a giant blob moving towards him. Of course tighten it up and engage spear wall before contact with enemy. Cav (border horses and gen) will all swing out to the left.

Hopefully my opponent will think I am so disorganized that he won't even know what hit him when all of his (skirmishing) pavise are trampled by my cav. By the time he realizes what is happening it may be too late. Your G-G-G works.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQAMZ...F9445&index=35

[UndrState]

Yeah, the thing with the group-ungroup-group thing is that it'll work - but then sometimes it'll stop working, and then suddenly, when you're not paying attention, all your units are forming up in a single line.

That's why I prefer the method which I described in my original reply to you, that is not using groups when I want to use custom formations. It's straightforward and doesn't undo itself.

[MarshallNole]

Yeah, the thing with the group-ungroup-group thing is that it'll work - but then sometimes it'll stop working, and then suddenly, when you're not paying attention, all your units are forming up in a single line.

That's why I prefer the method which I described in my original reply to you, that is not using groups when I want to use custom formations. It's straightforward and doesn't undo itself.

So you just move certain units together without being grouped, then move another set of units separately? That is basically what I do now but it sucks having to move each unit separately.

[Gurak]

Yeah, the thing with the group-ungroup-group thing is that it'll work - but then sometimes it'll stop working, and then suddenly, when you're not paying attention, all your units are forming up in a single line.

Yes, I had a case of a custom formation grouped (3x[G]) unit suddenly lose its formation in the middle of a battle the other day.
Most annoying

That's why I prefer the method which I described in my original reply to you, that is not using groups when I want to use custom formations. It's straightforward and doesn't undo itself.

I can see this ungrouped (but multi-selected) movement being fine for the initial advance, but after the first contact, the units will become disheveled.
What do you do after that? Do you never select any other units?
If not, then with no group you would have to pause and manually reform them one unit at a time before you could move in your custom formation again no?

It doesn't seem practical... I must be missing something.

[UndrState]

Fair enough. I usually have some in traditional groups using the standard formations, while the rest all together are ungrouped and I use them in a single custom formation.

The only other alternative I can think of would be making your unique formations based around a particular catagory of unit, that way you could use hotkeys to select them quickly (Ctrl+I for Infantry, Ctrl+M for missile - you know these?) . You could also do something like that with Ctrl+double left click on a unit, which selects all of that particular unit type (but that's only really practical if you have don't have a wide variety of units in your army).

Otherwise you're left with the [G]-[G]-[G] technique.

[Kambe]

If you want to move whole army in formation use ctrl + a to select all units and hold shift when you move them

[UndrState]

Gurak - you're right, in that it's not a practical way to control all your units, all the time. Upon initial advance, perfect for unusual formations. But, unless you're going to start managing units by using the hotkeys for unit types (ctrl+M, ctrl+I, etc.), which isn't practical, I end up using ingame formations for most units. However, like I mentioned above, esp. with Pike formations where I like to have say a professional pikemen unit and a militia pikemen unit stacked and moving together, then I leave these ungrouped. I may have 2 or 3 formations like these, so 4-6 units, and the rest of the stack are in standard formations. I use the UI to get to these pikemen quickly by double-clicking on any one unit, then click-'n-drag select to get the whole formation. Fortunately, pikemen are slow moving so I can usually stop them from getting too far out of formation once engaged. I also end up using the "<" and ">" buttons to rotate these units together when they need to face a new direction, because it's faster and more efficent than "drawing" them on the ground like you normally would with standard groups.

I wish these games would have had a customizable formations button or hotkey step up, but I can imagine that might've been difficult for them to put in.

[zaroff1]

I miss the facility available on "Rome" where you could start a nice tidy siege, by grouping the whole army, putting them on auto-pilot and watch them all move tidily to the walls and into the city in formation. I know some might think it makes it too easy, but, let's face it, it's what you're going to do anyway and saves a lot of fiddly unit-by-unit manipulation. If you try to employ the same tactic in M2TW, your units just abandon the siege equipment and run around doing nothing...Is there maybe a mod that helps with this?

[UndrState]

That's funny, I rarely think about putting groups under AI control. Do they really suck that much? You think they'd be at least as competent as the enemy AI.

BTW thanks zaroff1, you have me an idea for the rolepaying thread.

[Gurak]

Thanks Undrstate, that classifies things and makes sense.

Interestingly, I was just discussing command and control over in a Third Age thread, and another fellow recommended the use of the AI group assistance command.
I must admit that I'm always more than a little nervous ceding any control to the ai, but he made some sound points for having the computer control part of one's army - mainly the non maneuver elements of course.
He suggested that it can do a decent job of holding unit cohesion, and noted that it is probably the quickest way of bringing very disordered formations into order.
I believe you can still issue general movement and attack orders, and I suspect it can do probably a decent, if not inspired job of getting them sorted.

Anyone have much experience with this?

[zaroff1]

I often use AI control, because, being dyspraxic and not particularly fast with my fingers, I often find it the only way to experience a large scale battle without having to auto-resolve...As I said, the AI control on Rome is pretty good and almost perfect for sieges. With Medieval 2, it seems much the same on field battles, but sieges are absolutely awful...Under normal circumstances, I'll group the units I want to use and right click on the target. They usually head there without a problem and react realistically to anything they meet on the way...

[Nzg]

UnderState, they really do. Once I put AI control over the second army that came to assist, they just made it harder, not to mention loosing a noble.

AI control maybe would be helpful, but during a siege I'd never try it. I don;t recall loosing a siege against computer player if my chances were at least 1:3 and the enemy had no balistas/catas etc. With siege eq I'd say I never lost 1:2 balance. The AI is just plain stupid and allways walks into traps, clinches, firetargets for my sieges.