Properly Held Spears and Shield Wall?

[Borluc]

Hey,

I have RTW with the BI expansion, 1.6 patch, and RTRPE installed.

I am curious about a couple things. First, I thought that some of my units would now have the shield wall formation; or was that another mod?

Second, my hoplites aren't holding their spears overhand.

Are these two things supposed to be in or are they both extras that I don't have?

The reason I ask is that my hoplites are pretty much unable to push because they no longer have the phalanx formation (the tight one that you activate) in RTR. So, when I order them to close in tight they just walk into the enemy formation and get slaughtered instead of slowly moving into it in formation.

Ohh, one other thing that bothers me. Why did you one up the Spartans by adding the armored hoplites? I know the Spartans have an advantage with 3 hp instead of 2, but it seems like a redundant unit.

Anyway, thanks hehe.

[Oddball_E8]

actually shieldwall isnt implemented in RTRPE since its basically just a port from RTR gold...
but it is included in candelarius' extended realism mod...
and the animations are available as a separate mod...

in my game hoplites use the overhead anim and can use shieldwall...

[JoeyJubb]

The animations of which you speak can be found in my sig!!

EDIT: Look

[florin80]

Moved to RTR Platinum sub-forum.

[Quinn Inuit]

Armored hoplites v. Spartans! Eureka!

Thank you for the new idea for my unit re-balancing project.

I think Armoured Hoplites are reasonable to have in the game, since the Greeks may not always control Sparta and the A.H. represent the wealthy elite of any hoplite corps. However, so do the Athenian and Corinthian Hoplites. I already intend to nerf the A.H. a little (a major goal of my project is to get rid of all the multi-hp ground units except the Spartans). I think what I'll do is make them not quite as cost-effective as their Athenian and Corinthian counterparts, so the AI (and human) has a reason to hang onto those cities and make the specialized hoplites instead of putting out bland armies of A.H. (Don't laugh. If the Greeks survive and expand a little, they start to pwn people with A.H. I remember someone from the old RTR forum describing a game where they did just that.)

[Amur_Tiger]

While you're at it make the armoured hoplites and spartans full sized groups so that they can be effectively used with your phalanx line. I know that I never really bother with them because they're so much more difficult to manage in battle, same with the Spartans and Athenians really. Of course I'm willing to see very high costs and long build times to balance things out with the unit, just as long as it's something useable on the battlefield.

[Quinn Inuit]

Way ahead of you there, man.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...6&page=1&pp=20

I'm making everyone except the Spartans full-sized for exactly that reason. The Spartans are going to stay the same, although if you think it's that much of a problem I'll push them up to 90/2 instead of 60/3.

[mmmrrrr]

But the only phalangites you're going to have as Greeks in RTRPE is Epirote, Mercenary Pezoi and Persian Phalanx Pikemen, right? Maybe Machimoi as well if you get there. So I don't quite see the point of pushing them into the phalanx line like that. It's not that bad, but it's no biggies.

[Oddball_E8]

i upgraded the spartans, athenians and armored hoplites to full 120 man units in my game... and removed the extra hitpoints from the spartans and AH...
the spartans on the other hand got some armor (since imho they did use armor at this period... i know, i know its a heated debate on that point, but its my version of it...)
and to top it off i made sure that you cant build AH in athens and sparta (and you cant build normal hoplites in corinth)... thats about it when it comes to how i handled the greeks...

[Quinn Inuit]

I think I'll steal some of that, Oddball. When you prevented certain things from being built in certain places, did you just add an "AND NOT {PLACE}" to the hidden resources section?

[Oddball_E8]

basically i just stole the "and hidden_resource unit_sparta" and added a "not" after the "and" part... so it looks like this "and not hidden_resource unit_sparta"
works with all hidden resources...
i got the idea from the "and not marian_reforms" requirements on some troops... tried it and it worked...
ive done this to other units too (for example i allow the macedonians and greeks to recruit cretan archers on crete and there i prevent them from building "normal" archers)

i would reccomend you "upping" some of the stats of the spartans if you actually want them to be über... my spartans work about the same way that armored hoplites do in the game... so theyre tough, but youll loose around ten from every unit every fight (unless youre facing other "über" units)

oh and another thing i did was lower the armor value on the athenians (and compensating it with an increased defence skill value) since their description (and actual history confirms it) sais that they were pioneers in wearing light armor and shields... so why do they have the highest armor value of all hoplites? doesnt make sense...

ps. of course ive changed the models for both athenians and spartans (less armor on the athenians and more armor on the spartans)... ive used ATG's bronze spartan for the spartans and a model i got from a friend for the athenians (sorry... cant give out that model)

[Quinn Inuit]

basically i just stole the "and hidden_resource unit_sparta" and added a "not" after the "and" part... so it looks like this "and not hidden_resource unit_sparta"
works with all hidden resources...
i got the idea from the "and not marian_reforms" requirements on some troops... tried it and it worked...
ive done this to other units too (for example i allow the macedonians and greeks to recruit cretan archers on crete and there i prevent them from building "normal" archers)

That's cool. I'll do it.

Interesting idea about the Cretan Archers. Two questions:
1) Is it historically accurate?
2) Should I do that with Rhodian Slingers and Balearic Slingers, too?

i would reccomend you "upping" some of the stats of the spartans if you actually want them to be über... my spartans work about the same way that armored hoplites do in the game... so theyre tough, but youll loose around ten from every unit every fight (unless youre facing other "über" units)

Why do you suppose that is? The Spartans have 1 more hp than the A.H.

I'd prefer to alter unit att/def stats as little as possible, since I don't know that much about this era of history (I have an M.A. in Recent U.S., though, not that it helps here).

oh and another thing i did was lower the armor value on the athenians (and compensating it with an increased defence skill value) since their description (and actual history confirms it) sais that they were pioneers in wearing light armor and shields... so why do they have the highest armor value of all hoplites? doesnt make sense...

ps. of course ive changed the models for both athenians and spartans (less armor on the athenians and more armor on the spartans)... ive used ATG's bronze spartan for the spartans and a model i got from a friend for the athenians (sorry... cant give out that model)

This is just a rebalancing mod, so that's a little more involved than I'd like to get.

[Oddball_E8]

about the cretans: actually im not sure its historically correct... but it seems wierd to recruit archers that arent cretan archers when youre on crete... dont you think? but i dont think crete ever was part of the greek city states at this time... and when the romans took over they did recruit alot of cretan archers, but it doesnt state if they were mercenarys or recruits...

about the spartans: well as i said before... i removed the extra hitpoints from both the spartans and AH... so if youre gonna keep the hitpoint difference, i guess theyll still be über (but dont forget to up their price when you up their numbers...)

[Quinn Inuit]

about the cretans: actually im not sure its historically correct... but it seems wierd to recruit archers that arent cretan archers when youre on crete... dont you think? but i dont think crete ever was part of the greek city states at this time... and when the romans took over they did recruit alot of cretan archers, but it doesnt state if they were mercenarys or recruits...

about the spartans: well as i said before... i removed the extra hitpoints from both the spartans and AH... so if youre gonna keep the hitpoint difference, i guess theyll still be über (but dont forget to up their price when you up their numbers...)

Agreed about the archers. That would just be weird. I'll fix that if it doesn't take too long.

I see. I was wondering how that happened with your Spartans. I'm definitely going to keep the hp difference, but I'll remember to up price when I up numbers as appropriate (except with the Poeni Cit. Inf., which I'm going to alter in a different way).

[jw1089]

where can i download the overhand hoplite style phalanx?

[JoeyJubb]

where can i download the overhand hoplite style phalanx?

In my sig. The next update will be available within the next few days, so don't start any campaigns if you can help it... hehe

[jw1089]

cool. thanks man. i had been getting really sick of the fake spear snimation