{DIK} Discussion

[Aneirin]

Thank you Jurand!
That is a good question indeed. Though, it won't be a big deal. You see, we don't have that many 'meaningful' ancillaries for factionleaders.
As I recall, there are only two? King of Spain and one I cannot remember right now.
If the limit is met, it happens nothing at all. The general in the city gets his governor title, that's it.
In the end of course, only testing will prove what is feasible

Thank's for your opinion.

[Aneirin]

Hm.. I'd rather not. Since I'd like to concentrate on finishing the new version.

If you can provide me list with the things you'd like to have fixed,
I'll promise I'll see what I can do, alright?

[Gustav Mahler]

Could you make battles longer and harder? In Italian Wars pikemen kill and die too fast when confronted against other pikes. I am all for lowering the attack values and heightening the defense values. Also crossbowmen are too effective, they can wreak havoc only with few units. Fighting seems more vanilla and attack friendly. What do you say about this? I would really like arqebusiers to be available from the start because they were already present in 1494.

[Aneirin]

Of which version do you speak?
4.1 or the Ultimate Battle beta?

[Gustav Mahler]

First of all I am sorry I did not emphasize that this mod and your effort are fantastic. I am an avid reader of military history and particularly in love with warfare in the 16th century. I like very much Oman's ''A History of the Art of War in the 16th Century''. The versions I had in mind are 4.1 and 5.0. If you know mod like Dawn of Conquest from Sandy (here in mod threads) then you would see that even on medium difficulty in that mod melee's are prolonged and nerve wrecking, even with pike units. My suggestion is also higher upkeep for faction units - for instance not 150 gold for pike units or halberdiers but 300... etc. Also mercenaries were more available in that period and sometimes most of the armies consisted of them. Are these ideas OK with your concept of this mod?

[Jurand of Cracow]

higher upkeep for faction units - for instance not 150 gold for pike units or halberdiers but 300... etc. Also mercenaries were more available in that period and sometimes most of the armies consisted of them. Are these ideas OK with your concept of this mod?

Finding the balance of price of the units wil be the crucial element whether I would like the mod or not much. (I didn't play earlier versions).
It makes no sense to play the battles if you can easily buy new units if you lose a battle, or if you can afford large armies with dozens of units, or you meet a never-ending flood of stack-spam from AI. I think the balance found in SSHIP or in EB2 is a right one, maybe even too high. In SS-HURB there was a loophole in the system - forts provided free upkeep for 3 units and I would build a farm of forts around my cities just to gather huge armies.

I'm really looking forward to see how DIK will solve this issue of the gameplay (well, there're also other elements: diplomacy, AI behaviour etc. which will be crucial for the experience). I'm quite anxious also because I didn't have chance to play so late era - in the games I rarely get even to the gunpowder while submods dealing with late perios (like 1390) were never finished. I didn't play 30jahrige Krieg, this would probably be interesting, but I'll wait for DIK.

[Gustav Mahler]

Finding the balance of price of the units wil be the crucial element whether I would like the mod or not much. (I didn't play earlier versions).
It makes no sense to play the battles if you can easily buy new units if you lose a battle, or if you can afford large armies with dozens of units, or you meet a never-ending flood of stack-spam from AI. I think the balance found in SSHIP or in EB2 is a right one, maybe even too high. In SS-HURB there was a loophole in the system - forts provided free upkeep for 3 units and I would build a farm of forts around my cities just to gather huge armies.

I'm really looking forward to see how DIK will solve this issue of the gameplay (well, there're also other elements: diplomacy, AI behaviour etc. which will be crucial for the experience). I'm quite anxious also because I didn't have chance to play so late era - in the games I rarely get even to the gunpowder while submods dealing with late perios (like 1390) were never finished. I didn't play 30jahrige Krieg, this would probably be interesting, but I'll wait for DIK.

I completely agree with you on all of your points concerning upkeep and gameplay, except on one thing - that you try three mods that are also pike and shot based, I am interested in your opinion: aforementioned ''30 years war'', ''With Fire and Sword'' and ''Age of Discovery''. Period from 1494. to 1648. is my absolute favorite!

[Jurand of Cracow]

Thanks for the info about mods! The main argument not to plunge into them is to have spare time to play DIK when it's ready to give feedback to Anerin ;-)

A quick question about tactics: do you mix pikes and muskets (ie two units) in one place? I recall from many years discussion about it, hmm. I don't know how the M2TW mechanics reacts...

[Aneirin]

Sorry guys, I was quite busy over the last days

First of all I am sorry I did not emphasize that this mod and your effort are fantastic. I am an avid reader of military history and particularly in love with warfare in the 16th century. I like very much Oman's ''A History of the Art of War in the 16th Century''. The versions I had in mind are 4.1 and 5.0. If you know mod like Dawn of Conquest from Sandy (here in mod threads) then you would see that even on medium difficulty in that mod melee's are prolonged and nerve wrecking, even with pike units. My suggestion is also higher upkeep for faction units - for instance not 150 gold for pike units or halberdiers but 300... etc. Also mercenaries were more available in that period and sometimes most of the armies consisted of them. Are these ideas OK with your concept of this mod?

Thank's for your praise. Well, we have completely overworked unit stats and costs according to the Real Recruitment and Real Combat guidelines. I dare to say that have a decent approach in that regard
Have you tested our Ultimate battle beta, already?
The stats have been overworked several times since its release. For example the arquebusiers had a too devastating effect on units, besides several other issues.
But have a try yourself

Finding the balance of price of the units wil be the crucial element whether I would like the mod or not much. (I didn't play earlier versions).
It makes no sense to play the battles if you can easily buy new units if you lose a battle, or if you can afford large armies with dozens of units, or you meet a never-ending flood of stack-spam from AI. I think the balance found in SSHIP or in EB2 is a right one, maybe even too high. In SS-HURB there was a loophole in the system - forts provided free upkeep for 3 units and I would build a farm of forts around my cities just to gather huge armies.

I'm really looking forward to see how DIK will solve this issue of the gameplay (well, there're also other elements: diplomacy, AI behaviour etc. which will be crucial for the experience). I'm quite anxious also because I didn't have chance to play so late era - in the games I rarely get even to the gunpowder while submods dealing with late perios (like 1390) were never finished. I didn't play 30jahrige Krieg, this would probably be interesting, but I'll wait for DIK.

Well for earlier version we applied a broad rule ^^
That was actually the reason to have it changed for the final version

The unit pricing is based on the work done by k/t, you can find a cut out of his work here and our adjusted version here.
Feel free to add your comments!

To give you guys an update. All the 'old' script by the former founder Vlad Tepes are now implemented.
Currently I am adjusting the early campaign events, like conquer of Naples, League of Venice, etc.
Takes quite some time, since I have to take all the new factions into account and research whether they were involved or not.
Nevertheless I make good progress.

[Gustav Mahler]

Thank's for your praise. Well, we have completely overworked unit stats and costs according to the Real Recruitment and Real Combat guidelines. I dare to say that have a decent approach in that regard
Have you tested our Ultimate battle beta, already?
The stats have been overworked several times since its release. For example the arquebusiers had a too devastating effect on units, besides several other issues.
But have a try yourself

I have tried battle beta and it seems like a completely different game in a most positive way. I like especially that units are very pricy because in total war games endless spam of units ruins the gameplay utterly. In reality 16th century battles were very few and warfare was mostly about endless maneuverings, sieges, skirmishes... Armies were relatively small and the area they had to cover huge. 50.000. men is a big number for 16th century and especially for medieval times but in reality even that number is too small so maneuverings and cutting of supply lines was possible, then retreat and doing it again and again without any battle. One 16th century general said ''Give me 50 years of war without one grand battle'', because battles were too risky and too bloody and what's more - too expensive. As you recall at Bicocca the battle was forced by the Swiss in French service who wanted to get payed. I would like to see mod that makes battles special and units expensive so that battle can be decisive. Unfortunately maybe in future we would have intelligent AI which knows how to play and who doesn't charge at the front of my line to be butchered by the prepared firepower.

[prince-93]

Hey, how is the work going? Is the release date near?

[Aneirin]

Well, I am still busy with implementing all that stuff and my term has just started.
When the scripts of our previous versions are done, it won't be long till a release

[Nelduin]

It has been some time with no update, is everything going well?

[HuoShan]

Any news or happened something？

[Aneirin]

It has been some time with no update, is everything going well?

Any news or happened something？

So sorry fellows, real life caught me unexpected and kept me busy till yesterday.
Now everything is settled and I can finally return to modding.

Best regards,
Aneirin


P.S. In a couple of days you guys will get some news.

[banskie100]

I am so excited Aneirin. I just cannot hide it.

[Mamlaz]

Very good to hear that the work here is being continued

[Aneirin]

Yeah rl got to me quite unexpected, so there was no progress during the last view weeks.
Which is quite unsatisfying for me as it is for you guys.

I am really sorry, but I'll definitely be back on track in August
So this is just paused

[LEZVIE]

Sorry for the bad English, I write through the online translator. That's a topic in Russian forum where I add to the mod new units

http://imtw.ru/topic/48337-итальянские-войны-1493-1559/page__pid__1932748__st__380#entry1932748

[Brezkimra]

Congratulation Lezvie!

I saw your links pages. You make perfect units for this mod's era!
I would like if Your units are be in The Italian wars mod.