View Poll Results: Which would you recommend as the best game to buy? (be honest, neither nostalgic nor dismissive)

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  • Total War: Rome 2

    36 33.96%
  • Rome: Total War

    70 66.04%
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Thread: Everything Rome 2 has that Rome 1 didn't

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  1. #1
    GussieFinkNottle's Avatar Domesticus
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    Icon4 Everything Rome 2 has that Rome 1 didn't

    Right, as a counterpart to this thread: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...Rome-2-doesn-t
    Where I listed all the Rome 1 features not in Rome 2, as I stated I will do, this thread is an effort to go through everything that is in the new game but wasn't in the original, to show why many prefer it. There is an impressive array of features added, even if a lot has been cut. In fact, despite being the game that cut the most, Rome 2 is also the game that invented the most new features since the original Rome. I also here endeavour to combat the flak aimed at me in the other thread as not able to see both sides.

    The comparison is between Vanilla Rome 2 and Vanilla Rome 1

    Please contribute if you see things I've missed out (I have added some that Pontic Pontus and Dunadd suggested), or discuss the relative merits of the two games

    To highlight what is completely new, features that have not been seen before are unformatted, those that have been in TW games since Medieval 2 are in bold, features that have been in since Empire/Napoleon are underlined and features that were in Shogun 2 are in italics

    So here, all in one place is my comprehensive 'in Rome 2 but not in the original Rome' feature list:

    -Legions and legion legacy/history

    -Army naming and banner customisation

    -Cinematic camera without HUD

    -Line of sight

    -Stances: forced march, muster, raiding, fortified (though RTW had forts separate from armies, that could be garrisoned by different armies)

    -Transports (debatable benefit)

    -Wonders not included in original 7 e.g. Stonehenge

    -Political parties

    -Territorially unified Rome

    -Slums

    -Some faction-dependent mercenaries

    -Ability to levy soldiers from Satrapies

    -Ability to select upgrades, specialise armies

    -117 factions plus rebel and slave emergent factions

    -More playable factions: every playable Rome 1 faction (3 Romans, 1 Carthage becomes 3, Gallic tribe, German tribe, Brittanic tribe, Seleucids, Egypt, Greek cities, though DLC, are 3 playable factions (Athens, Sparta, Epirus) and 3 non-playable ones (Syracuse, Rhodes, Pergamon) instead of 1, Parthia) plus Macedon, Pontus, 3 steppe tribes in DLC, 3 Gallic tribes in DLC

    -Playable barbarian factions are real tribes: Iceni, Suebi, Arverni instead of Britannia, Germania and Gaul

    -Families and civil wars for all factions

    -Carthage a republic

    -More units (around 3x as many)

    -200 naval units

    -Integrated diplomatic AI and campaign AI

    -More factors affect diplomacy e.g. you were nice to my ally/you had a war with my trade partner

    -Ability to give general orders to AI-controlled allies e.g. ‘defend here’

    -Edicts

    -African and Asian elephants (though the model is no different, showing Asian elephants in both cases)

    -Province/region system to aid management

    -New formations, such as shieldwall (but this was in BI), defensive testudo and differentiation between hoplite and Macedonian phalanxes

    -More city variants and 5 unique cities based on their historical counterparts

    -Option of Republic or Empire after civil war, not just Empire

    -Cultural and Economic victories, and victory conditions include allies, client states and satrapies

    -Full-screen strategic overview map

    -Multiple capture points in cities

    -CoH-style victory countdown for capturing cities and victory points

    -Limited armies intended to give bigger, more decisive battles (and I have found I am fighting larger battles, though some have not)

    -Navigable rivers

    -Sea regions, that can be neutral, hostile, contested, shared or controlled, each with different bonuses and penalties

    -Seleucid, Ptolemaic, and Carthaginian Empires broken up into satrapies/client states

    -More weather and lighting effects

    -New siege engines e.g. wall ram

    -Historical storyline to follow with money rewards

    -Map effects e.g. clouds

    -Replenishment for fleets at sea in friendly regions

    -Barbarian confederations

    -Selection of generals' bodyguards and admirals to choose from, in Rome 1 there were at most 2 different generals' bodyguards per faction and you could not choose between them

    -Female Agents

    -Naval mercenaries

    -Better graphics

    -Battle Prisoners, enslave prisoners, more detailed slavery mechanics

    -1 v 1 animations and wounded animations

    -More historical figures

    -New ammunition types: poisonous or exploding catapult ammo, flaming javelins etc.

    -Height, appearance and equipment differences between men within a unit

    -Dirt on units and (with dlc) blood

    -Deployables in battle
    e.g. caltrops, spike pits, barricades, stakes, burning bales (fireballs)

    -Bigger map, including Upper Egypt (counter-intuitively further south) Arabia, Caledonia, Media, Parthia, Persia, Bactria, Indian Ocean and Aral Sea

    -Warscape

    -Save campaign battle replay

    -'Intelligent zoom' (N)

    -Exempt provinces from tax

    -Automatic garrisons in towns, separate from the field armies

    -Cavalry mount/dismount toggle

    -Attrition in harsh climates, when starving or when besieging/under siege (only attrition under siege was in the original Rome)

    -More graphical effects and shader options

    -More cultures (e.g. Illyrians, African Tribes, Sarmatians, Arabs) with their own units and building varieties

    -Diplomacy with every faction, not just the ones you have an agent nearby (Rome 1 diplomats)

    -Agents can do more actions and have crossover roles

    -Villages on battle maps not in a settlement

    -Numerical breakdown of diplomatic relations

    -Soldiers and horsemen leap over (and break) low walls, fences, hedges and market stalls

    -Better researched units and equipment

    -Tech tree – 3 branches, and faction-specific

    -No areas start out as rebels (no faction cap)

    -Slow motion

    -Unit replenishment instead of retrain, though units can be retrained to upgrade them

    -New battle modes: coastal battles, port sieges, naval battles, more developed ambushes

    -Diplomatic options: join war against, non-aggression pact, defensive alliance, war target, satrapies or client states instead of protectorates

    -Prestige (now called Imperium and resulting in agent, edict and army cap boosts)

    -Remove HUD option for screenshots

    -Torches to burn down gates (debatable benefit)

    -Bars as well as numbers to show health of units

    -Indicators on flags of morale, active effects and fatigue

    -Dilemmas
    and subjects

    -Ability to give control of some units to the AI

    -Wildlife (other than birds)

    -More group formations and grouped-units options

    -More abilities and generals’ bonuses are dependent on their attributes

    -Food supply in campaign

    -Ability to move units while hidden

    -DX11

    -General and agent skill trees
    Last edited by GussieFinkNottle; March 04, 2014 at 09:50 AM.
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  2. #2
    The Roman Republic's Avatar Alea iacta est
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    Default Re: Everything Rome 2 has that Rome 1 didn't

    -Torches, RTW had this

    -More factions: every playable Rome 1 faction (and Greek cities, though DLC, are 3 playable factions (Athens, Sparta, Epirus) and 3 non-playable ones (Syracuse, Rhodes, Pergamon) instead of 1, plus Macedon, Pontus and 3 steppe tribes in

    RTW has 20, after defeating every faction in the campaign

  3. #3
    Sun Jetzu's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Everything Rome 2 has that Rome 1 didn't

    Seems like Rome 1 had alot more things. Thats good, there are some things that rome 1 had that I wanted in Rome 2. But some stuff was just fluff and I dont need it in the game. The biggest thing I wished they did was they made an HUD that was similiar to Rome 1's. Every game had something that put you in the time. Besides pictures that looked like they should be on pots. The transparent HUD looks cool but makes me feel like I'm playing Final Fantasy or something.
    Good lists, one question. In this list you said banner customization. I know how to name troops but how do you customize their banners?
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Everything Rome 2 has that Rome 1 didn't

    So...
    Rome 1 + Rome 2 + better AI = perfect Total War game.

  5. #5
    Sun Jetzu's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Everything Rome 2 has that Rome 1 didn't

    Quote Originally Posted by Boicote View Post
    So...
    Rome 1 + Rome 2 + better AI = perfect Total War game.

    I just wish they would have kept the old music. The rome 1 music was inspired and dramatic. It made me feel like I was in the time period. The Rome 2 music gets kinda annoying after a while and I always turn it off and listen to like two steps from hell or something
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  6. #6
    Karnil Vark Khaitan's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Everything Rome 2 has that Rome 1 didn't

    ehh rome 1 didnt have permanent forts, last time I played they went away if they didnt have a unit inside

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  7. #7
    Evan MF's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Everything Rome 2 has that Rome 1 didn't

    That's an empty list considering it's been 10 years.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Everything Rome 2 has that Rome 1 didn't

    A couple of things you listed were in the original Rome 1 I think.

    -Handing units to AI control for one and giving it defensive or offensive attitudes (my memory could be failing me here cause I never used that option)
    -Im pretty sure the middle mouse button was the "inteligent zoom"
    -Exempting provinces from taxes, Im pretty sure that one was in since you could manage taxes for each individual region
    -1v1 animations cant really be a major benefit in formation warfare imo

    Also I dont think limited armies translate to more bigger battles, its the other way around really, maybe it will once AI is fixed but its not currently.
    Some of the things listed could be grouped under "Graphical improvments".

    My intention is not to nag or whine but to improve the list, I may also may be wrong since I havent played Rome1 in a long while, or Rome 2. Otherwise its nice somebody finally made a list of the new features.

  9. #9
    GussieFinkNottle's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Everything Rome 2 has that Rome 1 didn't

    Quote Originally Posted by Sun Jetzu View Post
    Seems like Rome 1 had alot more things. Thats good, there are some things that rome 1 had that I wanted in Rome 2. But some stuff was just fluff and I dont need it in the game. The biggest thing I wished they did was they made an HUD that was similiar to Rome 1's. Every game had something that put you in the time. Besides pictures that looked like they should be on pots. The transparent HUD looks cool but makes me feel like I'm playing Final Fantasy or something.
    Good lists, one question. In this list you said banner customization. I know how to name troops but how do you customize their banners?
    Go to army details. If you look in the bottom left of the panel, below the box to change legion name, there is a little symbol which is the one on top of your army's banners. There are arrows on either side of it. Click these arrows to cycle through banners

    Quote Originally Posted by cevap View Post
    A couple of things you listed were in the original Rome 1 I think.

    -Handing units to AI control for one and giving it defensive or offensive attitudes (my memory could be failing me here cause I never used that option)
    -Im pretty sure the middle mouse button was the "inteligent zoom"
    -Exempting provinces from taxes, Im pretty sure that one was in since you could manage taxes for each individual region
    -1v1 animations cant really be a major benefit in formation warfare imo

    Also I dont think limited armies translate to more bigger battles, its the other way around really, maybe it will once AI is fixed but its not currently.
    Some of the things listed could be grouped under "Graphical improvments".

    My intention is not to nag or whine but to improve the list, I may also may be wrong since I havent played Rome1 in a long while, or Rome 2. Otherwise its nice somebody finally made a list of the new features.
    Thanks for your post
    To reply to your points raised:
    1. You could have your reinforcement army be AI controlled, and it was by default if it had a general, but you could issue no orders to it and you could give no soldiers in your army to AI control. This is much better in Rome 2
    2. Middle mouse only zoomed to the nearest unit to your mouse, not straight in the the direction of the mouse, and you couldn't move the camera around in zoom, so again it was more primitive in RTW
    3. You could put towns on low taxes, or on auto-manage, but you couldn't exempt them entirely, and because there was no food mechanic you couldn't use exempt from tax to manipulate the food supply like in R2
    4. I think occasional duels do help immersion and when troops die from stabbing in mid air or repetitive generic animations like in R1 it is less impressive, however I agree formation fighting is poor in Rome 2 and a middle ground between the two is preferable (the time length of the animations is another problem)
    5. The limit in armies makes you compress your troops all into big armies rather than lots of small ones. I have found myself regularly fighting against 5-7,000 men in Rome 2 when armies were usually a few hundred, or max 2 thousand in the original
    6. Graphics I mean in the most literal sense: poly-count and textures

    Quote Originally Posted by Pontic Pontus View Post
    Barbarian tribes can become confederation(become 1 faction together which you of course control,) which makes the game more fair and evens out their lower technology.

    Another minor detail you forgot: there are now also naval mercenaries.
    Thank you +rep
    I'll add them to the OP
    Last edited by GussieFinkNottle; November 03, 2013 at 10:34 AM.
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Everything Rome 2 has that Rome 1 didn't

    Quote Originally Posted by cevap View Post
    -1v1 animations cant really be a major benefit in formation warfare imo
    I think this is actually a negative for the Warscape games because its ONLY 1v1. In previous games you would have 3-4 guys beating on one at the same time when outnumbered. Warscape made it more into a kung-foo movie where it becomes a 1-1 fight despite the 5 other guys standing around.
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  11. #11

    Default Re: Everything Rome 2 has that Rome 1 didn't

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    I think this is actually a negative for the Warscape games because its ONLY 1v1. In previous games you would have 3-4 guys beating on one at the same time when outnumbered. Warscape made it more into a kung-foo movie where it becomes a 1-1 fight despite the 5 other guys standing around.
    ^ And this is so true. there sould be also 2vs1 animations and 3vs1, now they just stand still

  12. #12

    Default Re: Everything Rome 2 has that Rome 1 didn't

    Barbarian tribes can become confederation(become 1 faction together which you of course control,) which makes the game more fair and evens out their lower technology.

    Another minor detail you forgot: there are now also naval mercenaries.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Everything Rome 2 has that Rome 1 didn't

    Quote Originally Posted by GussieFinkNottle View Post
    Right, as a counterpart to this thread: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...Rome-2-doesn-t
    Where I listed all the Rome 1 features not in Rome 2, as I stated I will do, this thread is an effort to go through everything that is in the new game but wasn't in the original, to show why many prefer it. There is an impressive array of what has been added, even if a lot has been cut. I also here endeavour to combat the flak aimed at me in the other thread as not able to see both sides

    Please contribute if you see things I've missed out (I have added some that Pontic Pontus suggested), or discuss the relative merits of the two games



    So here, all in one place is my comprehensive 'in Rome 2 but not in the original Rome' feature list:

    -Tech tree – 3 branches, and faction-specific

    -Legions and legion legacy/history

    -Army naming and banner customisation

    -Cinematic camera without HUD

    -Remove HUD option for screenshots

    -Slow motion

    -Line of sight

    -Bars as well as numbers to show health of units

    -Indicators on flags of morale, active effects and fatigue

    -Stances: forced march, muster, fortified (though RTW had permanent forts), raiding

    -Transports (debatable bonus)

    -Torches to burn down gates (same as above)

    -Dilemmas and subjects

    -Wonders not included in original 7 e.g. Stonehenge

    -Political parties

    -Territorially unified Rome

    -Prestige

    -Ability to select upgrades, specialise armies

    -117 factions plus rebel and slave emergent factions

    -More playable factions: every playable Rome 1 faction (and Greek cities, though DLC, are 3 playable factions (Athens, Sparta, Epirus) and 3 non-playable ones (Syracuse, Rhodes, Pergamon) instead of 1, plus Macedon, Pontus and 3 steppe tribes in dlc (and future ‘Northern Tribes’ pack discussed on the grapevine)

    -Playable barbarian factions are real tribes: Iceni, Suebi, Arverni instead of Britannia, Germania and Gaul

    -No areas start out as rebels

    -Families and civil wars for all factions

    -Carthage a republic

    -Better graphics

    -Better researched units and equipment

    -More units (around 3x as many)

    -New battle modes: coastal battles, port sieges, naval battles, more developed ambushes

    -200 naval units

    -Deployables in battle e.g. caltrops, spike pits, barricades, stakes, burning bales (fireballs)

    -Diplomatic options: join war against, non-aggression pact, defensive alliance, war target, satrapies or client states instead of protectorates

    -Numerical breakdown of diplomatic relations

    -Integrated diplomatic AI and campaign AI

    -More factors affect diplomacy e.g. you were nice to my ally/you had a war with my trade partner

    -Ability to give control of some units to the AI

    -Ability to give general orders to AI-controlled allies e.g. ‘defend here’

    -Edicts

    -Villages on battle maps not in a settlement

    -Province/region system to aid management

    -Agents can do more actions and have crossover roles

    -New ammunition types: poisonous or exploding catapult ammo, flaming javelins etc.

    -Bigger map, including Upper Egypt (counter-intuitively further south) Arabia, Caledonia, Media, Parthia, Persia, Bactria, Indian Ocean and Aral Sea

    -1 v 1 animations and wounded animations

    -Wildlife (other than birds)

    -Diplomacy with every faction, not just the ones you have an agent near (Rome 1 diplomats)

    -More cultures (e.g. Illyrians, African Tribes, Sarmatians, Arabs) with their own units and building varieties

    -More group formations and grouped-units options

    -More abilities and generals’ bonuses are dependent on their attributes

    -New formations, such as shieldwall and defensive testudo

    -More city variants and 5 unique cities based on their historical counterparts

    -Option of Republic or Empire after civil war, not just Empire

    -Cultural and Economic victories, and victory conditions include allies, client states and satrapies

    -Height, appearance and equipment differences between men within a unit

    -Tactical map

    -Historical figures

    -Exempt provinces from tax

    -Food supply

    -Attrition in harsh climates, when starving or when besieging/under siege

    -Ability to move units while hidden

    -Multiple capture points in cities

    -CoH-style victory countdown for capturing cities and victory points

    -Dirt on units and (with dlc) blood

    -Unit replenishment instead of retrain, though units can be retrained to upgrade them

    -More big battles thanks to limited armies

    -Navigable rivers

    -Sea regions, that can be neutral, hostile, contested, shared or controlled, each with different bonuses and penalties

    -Seleucid, Ptolemaic, and Carthaginian Empires broken up into satrapies/client states

    -More weather and lighting effects

    -More graphical effects and shader options

    -Historical storyline to follow with money rewards

    -'Intelligent zoom' (N)

    -Map effects e.g. clouds

    -Warscape

    -Barbarian confederations

    -Naval mercenaries
    In your list I notice you like the bigger battles but are they more immersive and enjoyable than Rome 1 battle field gameplay? I think that battles are the heart of any TW game, so it seems critical to me that a credible counter list needs something like "better immersion and gameplay at the battlefield level".

    Do you think the battles are more enjoyable? Do you disagree that the battlefield gameplay is marred by unit blobbing and superfast battlefield gameplay? I tend to harp on about this because few supporters of the game seem to focus on this crucial aspect of the game. Those proponents that have addressed this issue say the patches have fixed the dubious battle field gameplay to some extent.

    On reflection, even haters of the game will ignore the central aspects of the game and focus on things like the family tree. From my point-of-view, if the battle engine is flawed then nothing else matters. So you need something in that list that praises the battlefield gameplay otherwise what is the point.
    Last edited by Durnaug; November 03, 2013 at 11:03 AM.

  14. #14
    GussieFinkNottle's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Everything Rome 2 has that Rome 1 didn't

    Quote Originally Posted by Durnaug View Post
    In your list I notice you like the bigger battles but are they more immersive and enjoyable than Rome 1 battle field gameplay? I think that battles are the heart of any TW game, so it seems critical to me that a credible counter list needs something like "better immersion and gameplay at the battlefield level".

    Do you think the battles are more enjoyable? What is your opinion of the blobbing, superfast battlefield gameplay? I tend to harp on about this because few supporters of the game seem to focus on this crucial aspect of the game. Those proponents that have addresses this issue say the patches have fixed the dubious battle field gameplay to some extent. If so then post your positive opinion of the battlefield gameplay.
    I have attempted on the whole to factually state what is in the game. I have not stated that I like the bigger battles (I would rather have no army limit) but the battles you fight are bigger, that is a fact.
    I do not like blobbing or the speed of battles, though I pause a lot and use slow-mo which make the latter less bad, but I cannot put something like "better immersion and gameplay at the battlefield level'' in a list because that is purely subjective and opinion. I agree that Rome 1 is more immersive, but I won't put that in my list of features, only the in-game features themselves (which may or may not make it a more involving experience for you).

    On reflection, even haters of the game will ignore the central aspects of the game and focus on things like the family tree. From my point-of-view, if the battle engine is flawed then nothing else matters. So you need something in that list that praises the battlefield gameplay otherwise what is the point.
    This is not intended to praise any aspect of gameplay, only list all new features
    Last edited by GussieFinkNottle; November 03, 2013 at 11:34 AM.
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    Default Re: Everything Rome 2 has that Rome 1 didn't

    Durnaug wrote
    In your list I notice you like the bigger battles but are they more immersive and enjoyable than Rome 1 battle field gameplay? I think that battles are the heart of any TW game, so it seems critical to me that a credible counter list needs something like "better immersion and gameplay at the battlefield level".
    Totally agree - the atmosphere just isn't there in Rome II battles or at campaign level. Lack of detail and feels dull, even though Rome II battle AI may be a bit better than Rome 1's after patches (though Rome 2's siege AI is broken and campaign AI bizarre)

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Everything Rome 2 has that Rome 1 didn't

    Pretty impressive list, but I think there are certain inaccuracies.

    1. There is a slow motion option. Just play a random battle and, in the control panel, you can see the option to slow down battles.

    2. More large battles is a bit subjective (actually, I consider it wrong, but, after all, that's only my personal opinion). Rome's II AI tends to create as many armies as it can, while Rome's I AI was relatively able to concentrate its forces on a specific target. You can't determine an alleged advantage of Rome II, based only on CA's intentions.

    3. There were historical figures in Rome I, too. Some of them, (e.g. Antigonus_II_Gonatas or Antiochus_I_Soter ) existed in the begining of the game, while others, like Hannibal, appeared in the later stages.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Everything Rome 2 has that Rome 1 didn't

    Now make a list comparing what was added/removed from their most recent release, Shogun 2. Possibly adding in things that players liked from medieval and empire as well.
    Last edited by wealthmonger; November 03, 2013 at 12:21 PM.

  18. #18
    GussieFinkNottle's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Everything Rome 2 has that Rome 1 didn't

    Quote Originally Posted by wealthmonger View Post
    Now make a list comparing what was added/removed from their most recent release, Shogun 2. Possibly adding in things that players liked from medieval and empire as well.
    I have edited the list to make this clear
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  19. #19
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    Default Re: Everything Rome 2 has that Rome 1 didn't

    Thanks for this, I was hoping someone (the same person, as it happens) would make a balanced counterpart to the other thread. Helps someone like me who hasn't yet bought Rome II.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Everything Rome 2 has that Rome 1 didn't

    Quote Originally Posted by GussieFinkNottle View Post
    So here, all in one place is my comprehensive 'in Rome 2 but not in the original Rome' feature list:
    -Legions and legion legacy/history

    -Army naming and banner customisation

    -Bars as well as numbers to show health of units

    -Indicators on flags of morale, active effects and fatigue

    -Dilemmas and subjects

    -Ability to give control of some units to the AI

    -Wildlife (other than birds)

    -More group formations and grouped-units options

    -More abilities and generals’ bonuses are dependent on their attributes

    -Food supply in campaign

    -Cinematic camera without HUD

    -Line of sight

    -Stances: forced march, muster, raiding, fortified (though RTW had forts separate from armies, that could be garrisoned by different armies)...

    -Wonders not included in original 7 e.g. Stonehenge

    -Ability to select upgrades, specialise armies

    -New formations, such as shieldwall (but this was in BI) and defensive testudo

    -Option of Republic or Empire after civil war, not just Empire

    -Cultural and Economic victories, and victory conditions include allies, client states and satrapies

    -Navigable rivers

    -Sea regions, that can be neutral, hostile, contested, shared or controlled, each with different bonuses and penalties

    -More weather and lighting effects

    -Prestige (now called Imperium and resulting in agent, edict and army cap boosts)

    -Remove HUD option for screenshots

    -Historical storyline to follow with money rewards

    -Map effects e.g. clouds

    -Naval mercenaries

    -Height, appearance and equipment differences between men within a unit

    -Deployables in battle
    e.g. caltrops, spike pits, barricades, stakes,

    -No areas start out as rebels (no faction cap)
    Not bad, but all pretty trivial and minor. None significantly improve the game or make up for the much more major features lost compared to the original.

    Could add cavalry able to dismount for assaults on cities or in battles and/or remount to this list. Also replenishment of losses for units in regions/sea areas held by their faction.

    -Better graphics

    -1 v 1 animations and wounded animations

    -More graphical effects and shader options
    The graphics would only be an improvement if the game ran properly on most systems at campaign level of in battles, which it doesn't except when using mods like the GEM mod.

    Graphics arent what make a game enjoyable to play in any case.

    -Transports (debatable benefit)
    I don't see much debate about it. Transports that were utterly vulnerable to warships and could only be built or commandeered at a port would have improved gameplay and been historically accurate. Transports that can be instantly created for free on any beach yet fight like warships, with all the oarsmen and ramming ability of a basic warship are unrealistic and destroy gameplay by making armies of every faction take to instant armadas constantly.



    -Political parties
    The political system in Rome is a good idea, but implemented in a half-done, paper thin way with no atmosphere and the player having no real idea what is going on or what the balance of power among the different factions is.

    -Territorially unified Rome
    Rome 1's three Rome factions actually represented history better in terms of the Romans' massive manpower from running all their farms and industry with slaves and their subject ally system in which allies contributed troops rather than paying money - and their constant aggression - especially if you were playing against Rome e.g as Carthage.

    -117 factions plus rebel and slave emergent factions
    Which slow the AI turns down wonderfully the further into the game you get - and many of which didn't exist in the period the game's set in (e.g Garamantia, Etruscans) or didn't exist at all ('client states' like 'nova carthago'). All these out of period, trivial in the period and made up factions also help destroy the atmosphere.

    -More playable factions: every playable Rome 1 faction (and Greek cities, though DLC, are 3 playable factions (Athens, Sparta, Epirus) and 3 non-playable ones (Syracuse, Rhodes, Pergamon) instead of 1, plus Macedon, Pontus and 3 steppe tribes in dlc (and future ‘Northern Tribes’ pack discussed on the grapevine)
    There were at least a dozen playable factions in the original game - you just had to unlock them by playing Romans first - which was annoying but easily changed by mods. Rome II is immensely harder to mod as it's no longer mostly text files.

    -Playable barbarian factions are real tribes: Iceni, Suebi, Arverni instead of Britannia, Germania and Gaul
    yes, but this goes a bit overboard - having two or three Gallic tribes would have been plenty for instance to represent the fact that the Gauls weren't one united people

    -Families and civil wars for all factions
    What families? The families in Rome II are merely the ruling dynasty you choose at the start of the game - after that there is nothing. No family tree, nothing.

    -Carthage a republic
    Nice, but given how paper thin and barely existent the political system is, makes little difference

    -More units (around 3x as many)

    -Bigger map, including Upper Egypt (counter-intuitively further south) Arabia, Caledonia, Media, Parthia, Persia, Bactria, Indian Ocean and Aral Sea
    How good a game is is not measured by how many different units or factions or provinces are in it but by how interesting, detailed, fun and immersive and atmospheric it is to play and how good the AI is. At the campaign level Rome II fails on all this. It has plenty of quantity but low quality.

    -200 naval units
    Ditto. And while the naval units look great, the way naval battles work is just sad. Any ship can ram any ship and the effect seems to depend entirely on their size rather than e.g whether they are an oared warship with hundreds of rowers and a metal clad ram or just a transport or a longboat with no more than a dozen or two dozen rowers, no ram and no real draught.


    -Integrated diplomatic AI and campaign AI
    In what respect? What does this even mean? How is it different from Rome ? Is it just copied and pasted from a press release? Why have basic diplomatic options like offering or demanding settlements that were in Rome 1 gone in Rome 2?

    -More factors affect diplomacy e.g. you were nice to my ally/you had a war with my trade partner
    Well it does at least show you what the factors are

    -Ability to give general orders to AI-controlled allies e.g. ‘defend here’
    Never had AI controlled allies so can't comment as i've never seen this. Again sounds a nice if minor feature.

    -Edicts

    -Province/region system to aid management
    Edicts are a nice feature - but detailed city management screens showing total population growth, happiness/unhappiness, income, squalor and factors affecting that you had in Rome 1 are lost.

    You can no longer appoint governors in Rome II the way you could in the original Rome (no reason you couldn't if they'd been made separate from generals and unable to leave the city/region they were governor of).

    The province system is basically a nice idea, very badly implemented.

    It's a mess due to bizarre decisions such as making southern Italy part of the same province as Sicily - and even more bizarre making a minor town - Brundisium - the capital of Magna Graecia rather than the vast and ancient city of Syracuse.

    It's also a mess because it only allows province capital settlements to have walls, while every significant city or town in the ancient world with the exceptions of Sparta and Londinium had stone walls, because otherwise they would have been vulnerable to being looted, raided or occupied by every army, fleet, pirate or brigand gang passing.

    It's also a mess because it has a province wide culture rather than allowing for cities of different cultures in the same province without public order problems. So e.g if you're Carthaginian and control Lilybaeum - a Carthaginian settlement - you get a huge happiness penalty as Rome controls two Latin cities in made-up 'Magna Graecia'. And even if you made Sicily a separate province Lilybaeum would retain the penalty due to Sicily being mostly Greek cities and towns.

    -More city variants and 5 unique cities based on their historical counterparts
    Yet only one city in each province (the 'province capital') has walls - leaving dozens and dozens of major towns and cities, all of which had stone walls and many of which (e.g Syracuse and Jerusalem) had inner and outer walls and fortified citadels represented in the game as unwalled villages or towns. This is a joke both in terms of destroying historical atmosphere and in terms of simple logic - no-one ever fought a major battle and controlled a province by taking a village or hamlet.

    -Tactical map
    Do you mean the strategic map? Because there was a tactical map in battles in Rome 1 and unlike in Rome 2 you could look at it while looking at the battle itself

    -Multiple capture points in cities
    Yes- unfortunately the siege AI is totally broken and now battering rams require a mid-level tech advance and to get siege towers takes about 50 years of research, which is pretty ridiculous as every faction in the period and long before it used battering rams and many used siege towers too well, well before 280BC - including vast ones full of siege artillery like Demetrius' helepolis

    -CoH-style victory countdown for capturing cities and victory points
    There was a countdown to victory in siege battles for controlling the town square in Rome 1. I don't know why making it "call of heroes" style would be an improvement for a very, very different game. And victory point capture in field battles is ludicrous and ridiculous and enough to make many players turn the game off.

    -Limited armies intended to give bigger, more decisive battles (and I have found I am fighting larger battles, though some have not)
    I like this feature to some extent to try to avoid the AI spamming armies at you in mid-game on in Rome 1 and battles becoming meaningless and making no difference. Whether they've got the right limits relative to territory controlled i'm not so sure. Could have done with some testing to get the numbers right.

    -Seleucid, Ptolemaic, and Carthaginian Empires broken up into satrapies/client states
    The way this works is a total mess and destroys these factions making the game ridiculous whether you're playing them or against them - only Dresden's Hegemonia mod has fixed this so far.

    -Barbarian confederations
    Works well and has historical examples to base it on - nice feature.

    -New ammunition types: poisonous or exploding catapult ammo, flaming javelins etc.

    -Dirt on units and (with dlc) blood

    burning bales (fireballs)
    So ridiculous stuff that only kids would like.

    -More historical figures
    Like who? Playing as Carthage i have never soon one historical figure in the right time period and of the right dynasty

    -Warscape
    In what way is warscape an improvement on Rome 1?

    -'Intelligent zoom' (N)
    No idea what this is - never noticed it.
    -Exempt provinces from tax
    This is not an addition but an inferior version of being able to vary tax rates by settlement in Rome 1.

    -Attrition in harsh climates, when starving or when besieging/under siege (only attrition under siege was in the original Rome)
    Good idea with historical basis, but taken a bit far in e.g sieges
    -More cultures (e.g. Illyrians, African Tribes, Sarmatians, Arabs) with their own units and building varieties

    -Diplomacy with every faction, not just the ones you have an agent nearby (Rome 1 diplomats)
    Yet you can only have 2 diplomats now because they've given diplomats far too many abilities and made them alternate assassins/spies too but capped numbers.

    -Agents can do more actions and have crossover roles
    They can but it's a mess with all agents being good at the same things, too few of them, but too powerful.

    -Villages on battle maps not in a settlement
    There were often buildings in Rome 1 battle maps too.

    -Better researched units and equipment

    True - they probably mostly looked at EB for this, but still a slight improvement - though lots of out of period factions , out of period troops (Spartan hoplites when they had pike phalanx by this period and no helots) and made up factions and major heavily fortified cities portrayed as unwalled villages more than cancel that out in terms of historical accuracy

    -Tech tree – 3 branches, and faction-specific

    Nice idea - terrible implementation, with technologies that had been around for centuries in 280 BC made things you can't get for 50 or a 100 years of advancement - basic things like battering rams
    -Slow motion

    Yet 'fast forward' is even slower than in Rome 1 so getting into battle in the first place or manouvreing to assault a city, or waiting for the AI to, takes forever

    -Unit replenishment instead of retrain, though units can be retrained to upgrade them
    This is a nice feature.

    -New battle modes: coastal battles, port sieges, naval battles, more developed ambushes
    Not seen any greater development in this. As i remember it in many Rome 1 mods ambushes resulted in the ambushed army deploying in a column and the ambushers being able to deploy anywhere else.

    -Diplomatic options: join war against, non-aggression pact, defensive alliance, war target, satrapies or client states instead of protectorates
    Nice, but just as many basic diplomatic options lost e.g offer or demand settlement from Rome 1, Accept or we will attack, from Rome 1

    -Torches to burn down gates (debatable benefit)
    Very debatable asa) historically most gates were iron in this period
    and b) Even if they were wood, you won't just step through a raging inferno unharmed if you start one - it would take hours before a fire in a burning gatehouse ended and allowed anyone to pass through it alive
    -Ability to move units while hidden
    I think this is just if you're out of line of sight of the enemy, but if i'm wrong nice but very minor feature

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