Everything Rome 1 had that Rome 2 doesn't

[stackero]

I personally think that a new engine can lead to a release fiasco aswell like empire. But the more important thing is the mid term solution. Warscape never got adult. A new engine might get there.

Agreed. New engine needed, but don't count on CA to build it. Yes I know. Who then? Get those Santa letters in early kiddies. maybe we might get a Christmas miracle. See, I'm staying optimistic.

Not making light of your post, okay a little, but my point being, CA hasn't the people who can build a proper streamline game engine and unless they hire new talented blood there'a not going to be a new engine unless someone else beats them to it. I'm not betting on either scenario.

Good cheer everyone.

[stackero]

One more thing Rome 1 has that Rome2 doesn't; ME!

Peace and good gaming.

[stackero]

I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. But CA really need to change their development practices, and above all MAKE A NEW ENGINE for the next game, to avoid similar release fiascos.

While I think you and I can agree on most things, here is where we differ.

I am no longer willing to give CA a benefit of a doubt, and all those so called great patches hasn't changed my mind.

CA needs to change more than their development practices, more importantly their deception practices. If not for their false hyping of the game they would have been lucky to sell half the games they did. And there was absolutely no excuse to release R2 in that condition.

In essence they scammed people who thought the game they where buying was the game they saw advertised. That's going to stick on CA like a blood sucking tick on a Kentucky backwoods hound dog.

Make a new Engine? That would be great I agree.The problem with that is you need people who know how to build a new engine and I've seen no such ingenuity at CA so far. They don't even know how to program some of the most basic things that have been done in their past games.

As for avoiding future release fiascos. If CA is going streamline games then I care little about any CA future releases.

Sorry for the rant. Not throwing rocks at you GussieFinkNottle, you just struck a cord and I couldn't help but play the tune. Feel free to retort of course.

Peace and Good gaming.

[General Maximus]

In essence they scammed people who thought the game they where buying was the game they saw advertised. That's going to stick on CA like a blood sucking tick on a Kentucky backwoods hound dog.

Make a new Engine? That would be great I agree.The problem with that is you need people who know how to build a new engine and I've seen no such ingenuity at CA so far. They don't even know how to program some of the most basic things that have been done in their past games.

Agreed on all points.

The thing is, they scammed us in a way that false antivirus softwares do - they look like something else and behave entirely different. Continuing this might easily get them a lawsuit. If they were in Germany or France, they might've got sued and case-registered already, because scamming with false advertising is a crime.

They cannot make a new engine anymore. That is because the old CA team, which worked on games prior to Empire, is gone. They have a lot of new, incompetent kids replacing the entire staff and working on everything, and these incompetent devs have no idea what TW is or how it works. Hence the pathetic quality of the game, removed features and such. Since they are so incompetent and ignorant about TW series, they might not even know how to create an engine. If they do, when ordered to build an engine they will make a crap one, to ditch the real fans and lick the backsides of the arcade crowd.

CA has no chance, really. TW series is dead. I don't expect to see improvements in the next game they release either, since those newbies won't work on any new engine.

[LucretiusTC]

-some of the wounded on the winner's side recovering after each battle

-formation fighting instead of blobbing

-% of each side that were dead displayed by hovering over the balance of power bar

-all three of the post invasion options gave tangible benefits, as opposed to occupy being the only viable option in R2: slaughter gave public order as they were terrified of you and instant money; but destroyed the population size, occupy gave a large population but had potential public order problems, enslave provided long-term money and trade resources so was kind of a half-way house

-casualties actually mattered as you couldn't just stand in your territory for a turn or two to replenish them for free (and replenishment is much faster now than in NTW or S2 - this one is up for debate as to whether it is a good thing, but it is a fact that you couldn't heal your armies as quickly or at no cost in Rome 1)

-unit experience decreased when fresh recruits were used to refill it, making casualties matter even more

-retrain was available in every town with the relevant barracks

-unit merging to refill units or balance casualties

-numbers on unit cards

-general can be seen ordering the units about with every command you give: signalling with his sword for movements and rearing up to order a charge. Rallying also caused him to rear his horse

-no limits on armies

-military forces not glued to generals

-no automatic transports, so navies more useful

-more land battles (as opposed to settlement battles)

-scorched earth from armies in hostile territory, devastation shown on map and had public order and income consequences

-units stayed together when routing, not turning into weird massive long single-file lines, and chasing routing units was not a micromanagement-fest

-routing enemies were shown on the minimap ('radar map') so didn't require the chore of searching the battle map and examining the landscape to find them

-far longer unit and building descriptions, with historical information

These are some of my favourite points in this original list. I like the old retraining system because then you have to take care better your own troops and think about the casultiies, not just relying on automatic replishment system like in Rome 2. In Rome 1 and XGM I usually create some sort of maintainance routes between fighting armies and recruit centres. I usually combine most of incomplete units and send some of them back to major settlement for retraining, and also send some fresh units to frontier armies. Sometimes a temple system allows you to give extra experience and better weapons for retrained units in certain settlements.

Besides as we know in Rome 2 the number of generals in very limited, and you can't use them as freely if you need a good governor or if you just need to someone to lead a smaller army.

[Pontic Pontus]

Actually, a new mod just came out which fixes like half of the things rome 1 has that rome 2 doesn't.

[stackero]

Actually, a new mod just came out which fixes like half of the things rome 1 has that rome 2 doesn't.

Okay, I'll bite. What are half the the things. But,if its a long list, just name a few that impress you. You're statement has some merit because its something a modder did, not CA. And name the mod so others playing the game that haven't heard of it yet can look into it.

Good Gaming

[GussieFinkNottle]

Okay, I'll bite. What are half the the things. But,if its a long list, just name a few that impress you. You're statement has some merit because its something a modder did, not CA. And name the mod so others playing the game that haven't heard of it yet can look into it.

Good Gaming

So nothing CA does has merit? Really? I don't see why something is inherently better if it's a modder's work.

[stackero]

So nothing CA does has merit? Really? I don't see why something is inherently better if it's a modder's work.

I'm just exposing my contempt for CA. The truth we know, CA is the only one who can make real changes to the core game that will make any real solid difference. But kudos to those modders who can work around some of R2's flaws.

[General Maximus]

Or, they can provide us modding tools to get past most of the hardcoded area, so that the modders will some day re-implement the missing features.

But even with that, it might be pointless. Modders can do what they can, but engine limitations will always stop them short in their tracks everywhere.

[BroskiDerpman]

Since Alexander TW had a corny Indian faction, I was thinking originally CA would include an Indus Valley Civilization or even the Gupta Empire in Rome 2 as they mentioned an expanded map; It ends right before the Indus River.

It was so fun mowing down Roman Comitatanses, Sassanian heavy cavalry (So many choices of Cataphracts) and Kidarate (White Huns?) steppe armies with my Indian Longbowmen in Invasio Barbarorum SAI.

Now we're back to square one with no Indus Valley. Part of playing Baktria in many mods (EB1 was a notable one in the case of Bactria) was the ability to move to the Indus Valley and defend against the onslaught of the steppe peoples. Though the game is Euro centric, the ability to have a new environment to play around with is interesting even if you can't play as any of the Indian civilizations.

[General Maximus]

Since Alexander TW had a corny Indian faction, I was thinking originally CA would include an Indus Valley Civilization or even the Gupta Empire in Rome 2 as they mentioned an expanded map; It ends right before the Indus River.

It was so fun mowing down Roman Comitatanses, Sassanian heavy cavalry (So many choices of Cataphracts) and Kidarate (White Huns?) steppe armies with my Indian Longbowmen in Invasio Barbarorum SAI.

Now we're back to square one with no Indus Valley. Part of playing Baktria in many mods (EB1 was a notable one in the case of Bactria) was the ability to move to the Indus Valley and defend against the onslaught of the steppe peoples. Though the game is Euro centric, the ability to have a new environment to play around with is interesting even if you can't play as any of the Indian civilizations.

Lol, Indus Valley civilization stopped existing in 1300 BC, and it was forgotten by next century. How could you expect to see it in Alexander's timeframe?

Joking aside, I agree with you. Would be fun to play all those kingdoms, especially during the times when either Darius or Alexander invaded. Two civilizations ever existed in India - Vedic (Aryan) and Dravidian.

At the time of Alexander, there were few medium-sized kingdoms around Indus, while the rest of northern-central India was under the Nanda Empire, except a small coastal republic (!) state known as Kalinga. South was full of Dravidian tribes and little kingdoms. They would make good factions.

In RTW/Rome II's timeframe, just a little after Alexander left, India had grown into a huge unified Imperial superpower under the Mauryan dynasty, which extended well into eastern Persia after defeating Seleucids themselves. Historically they later became Seleucid allies, but in the game they would serve as a counter-check on the near-invincible eastern factions since they don't have anything. Also presents a chance to implement a good number of new mercenary and regular units, archers, proper Indian elephants and such. Alongside completing Alexander's conquest, the player might get a chance to do the complete reverse and reach the Mediterranean as the Mauryans.

Though Rome II is broken, and India's history of wars (almost always civil wars or against invaders) can be made into a game in itself. Implementing a large subcontinent and focusing on that instead of fixing the already trashed game would not be sensible. I would really love a game on my nation's history if they ever create one, though.

[stackero]

I would really love a game on my nation's history if they ever create one, though.

I know this isn't what you're talking about, exactly, and you likely have already gave it a try, but what's your opinion on this game if you have? Its one of few mods I've yet played.

Rome 1 mod, Forum: Res Gestae: Total War

MAURYAN EMPIRE

[General Maximus]

I know this isn't what you're talking about, exactly, and you likely have already gave it a try, but what's your opinion on this game if you have? Its one of few mods I've yet played.

Rome 1 mod, Forum: Res Gestae: Total War

MAURYAN EMPIRE

Yep, I already know about that mod. Thanks for the link, mate.

Also, this reminds me - has anyone noticed how Rome II map is so improperly scaled, with such ugly Arabian peninsula among a lot of other things? Persia looks tiny, Britain is huge. Africa is giant, while the Gujarat part of modern-day India, Anatolia and the Black Sea are so tiny.

Even vanilla RTW at least had a properly scaled map.

[BroskiDerpman]

Yeah, when I mentioned Indus Valley civilizations I meant the smaller kingdoms around it.

About Mauryan.

Drats I got my terms mixed up. Been playing too much BI time frame mods. What I always wanted was more details put into these factions; Sort of like how EB attempts to give all factions an even amount of effort. Playing as a steppe factions was just as satisfying as playing as Rome in EB1. (EB2 is coming in a few months, alpha version)

I think CA could've included one of the kingdoms around the Indus, would add more variety at least. Not like I really care any more as I lacked interest in Rome 2 as soon as I saw the ui. (At least in Napoleon the ui though modern looking kept the same scheme, Rome 2 is like a clusterbomb.) The ui mods do look hopeful but the intuitive of the ui severely is lacking.

[General Maximus]

Yeah, when I mentioned Indus Valley civilizations I meant the smaller kingdoms around it.

About Mauryan.

Drats I got my terms mixed up. Been playing too much BI time frame mods. What I always wanted was more details put into these factions; Sort of like how EB attempts to give all factions an even amount of effort. Playing as a steppe factions was just as satisfying as playing as Rome in EB1. (EB2 is coming in a few months, alpha version)

I think CA could've included one of the kingdoms around the Indus, would add more variety at least. Not like I really care any more as I lacked interest in Rome 2 as soon as I saw the ui. (At least in Napoleon the ui though modern looking kept the same scheme, Rome 2 is like a clusterbomb.) The ui mods do look hopeful but the intuitive of the ui severely is lacking.

Well, here is a map hinting of the most major kingdoms and states (and tribes to the south) in India during the Alexandrian Empire timeframe. Three of them are around Indus that could be represented. This can make for a lot of interesting factions.

Almost all of them were steamrolled and ROFLstomped within 2-3 decades after Battle of Indus/Hydaspes River.

On everything else, I agree. UI especially, it burnt my eyes whenever I saw it.

[Darius_D]

My suggestion is to make some order in the OP and to group the features (Campain gameplay, Campaign graphics, Battle gameplay, Battle graphics, etc). Will be easier to compare and add missing things.
Maybe no one mentioned missing classic roman testudo from Rome1


What I like in Rome 2 is the actual adoption of creative features pioneered by modders of RTW and M2TW (in mods like SPQR, EB and others) that turned out to add a lot of immersion to the core game, like:
- named historical legions
- legion composition trying to emulate historical one (within 20 available stack constraint of course)
- different kind of control over conquered land (from lose ally to partly romanized province to core province)
- navigable rivers,
- knowledge of the map at the start of the game was limited according to geographical place and historical contacts, require discoveries and travels
etc.

So kudos at least for that.

I truly miss city walls, sapping, classic testudo, battle cohesion, meaningful campain scenario. Too many things to list ....
But I don't miss multiple building tree - this feature is a bad game design, repeated in so many "strategy" games. As a ruler, you don't just build another building on and on (difficult to follow the tree), instead you make decisions. Long way to go, thou.

[GussieFinkNottle]

My suggestion is to make some order in the OP and to group the features (Campain gameplay, Campaign graphics, Battle gameplay, Battle graphics, etc). Will be easier to compare and add missing things.
Maybe no one mentioned missing classic roman testudo from Rome1

I'll do that when next I have time

[OpusDei]

Thanks folks. Because of some reactions I took a look at Europa Universalis, played the demo, bought the game and have been playing all night and day, addicitive!

[stackero]

Thanks folks. Because of some reactions I took a look at Europa Universalis, played the demo, bought the game and have been playing all night and day, addicitive!

Normally I would be saddened to hear someone bought another game over a new TW title. But believe me, you saved yourself alot a grief not buying R2, and buying a game you're enjoying, not wondering when the rest of the game will arrive and reaches a finished state.

Although to be fair, there are people who like Rome2, maybe you would of been one of them. But I think you made the wiser choice.

Good gaming