Trouble with Pontus

[Scippio Hollandia]

Difficulty h and h

I have played before with hellenistic armies but not with rtrplatinium 1.7.
I am really having trouble finding the right tactics. What worked in RTR gold does not work that well in 1.7.
Allmost all mine victories are phyric.

Does anybody have some suggestions concerning composition and tactics of a hellenistic army in 1.7?

[LegionairosMatt]

it should be basically the same as not many units were changed between Gold and Platinum.

Try using heavy cav (or even elephants) to flank enemy phalanxes and smash them up from behind while your phalanxes keep them busy at the front.

Also use peltasts (not archers) or sligers as missile troops as they do more damage and can increase enemy kills.

[lebr]

As LegionairosMatt said, a regular phalanx battle wont get you a clean victory. Hold the enemy at line wih some Pezoi (4 - 6 units) while you get around the enemy with missile troops, i tend to use archers with flames on to let them rout sooner.
Make sure to have some light infantry to defend your missile troops, and cav to fight of the enemy missle troops.

[Scippio Hollandia]

thanx

i will try that.
Should i also make use of chariots?

[florin80]

I don`t know how much this will help, but see this thread:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=59640
The first post is about what has changed regarding units in RTRPE and the second one is a guide on how to use your cavalry correctly.

[Pre]

Personally I just pinned with Pezoi and then crushed them from sides with pontic nobles with archers far back on the large mass. If you got darth formations, the Arab-Persian Formation is great for phlanax battles.

[Maximus Lazero]

One thing to keep in mind when fighting phalanges (it happens elsewhere, but I've found it is most common with a line of phalanxes). When one unit routes, the rest will almost ALWAYS route with it. This is basically the classic Greek hoplite warfare: the two sides fight until one side gives up and runs, and THAT'S when the victors inflicted major casualties. So even if your cavalry is fighting the flank guards, or mopping those units up, if you MLR (Main Line of Resistance) holds long enough, the enemy will all flee at once, allowing you quick and easy kills. This also doesn't really require you to even begin flanking...just hold them long enough, and they WILL all break and run. If you can, send in any missile units that have exhausted their ammo. They will be fresh, and a heck of a lot faster than the armored hoplites fleeing in terror and oblivious to the world.

[Ares82]

Not much new that I have to add, my strat is similar to what was said. Use the pezoi to hold the line, then rush scirmishers behind the enemy infantry and fire into their back, their loses will be devastating, especially if the skirmishers have the armour piercing spears. If they don't route right away I almost guarantee that anything short of spartans will route if you have the skirmishers charge in the back after they exhausted their ammo. Use cavalry to provide cover.

Personally I don't use like sending in my cavalry unless it's absolutely necessary. They are expensive and retraining them is more costly then retraining skirmishers. Chariots I find useful for scaring infantry. Just having one near by will help lower the enemy infantry morale.

[Sarkiss]

Difficulty h and h

I have played before with hellenistic armies but not with rtrplatinium 1.7.
I am really having trouble finding the right tactics. What worked in RTR gold does not work that well in 1.7.

read carefully changes in the link provided by Florin. most 'problems' caused by people's expectation of a devastating outflanking cavalry blow. but to get that in PE you need to consider a few things, things that were tweaked and dont work the way they did in Gold, namely cavalry charge, melee attack bonuses.

[Scippio Hollandia]

Mine victories are better with less casualties on my side.

Tactics i am employing now are
I have about 8 pezoi units deployed in a single line with some space between 2 or 3 units. This because it helpes my skirmishers to get more quickly behind the line when attacked. The line is divided in 3 groups in order to respond better to attack from different directions. I can for instance detach one of 2 or 3 pezoi to attack emeny reinforcement. It has greatly enhanced flexibility instead of using the phalanx as an unbreakable single line.
I have 2 units of archers behind the Phalanx and some skirmishers and slingers in front. Their main obejective is to destroy the enemies missle troops and unarmoured infantry.
3 units of galatians or hoplites take care of any flanking moves or gaps. And if practicable flank the enemy. 1 cappadocian lancer deal with any enemy cavalry especialy seluecid generals. A general with a bodyguard of 40 horse can have a devastating effect. Atfer the danger of their cavalry is removed the lancers can be used for attacking skimishers or the back of the phalanxes. Don't ever ,not even a Gallic warband, charge the enemy spearunits in front. In Gold a warband was routed easily, but i assume they have better bonusses. 1 light cavalry the hunt down routed foes.

It workes well this tactic. Especialy because it is useful in different situations.

Still sometimes the Plalanx is close to breaking when a fight between two phalanxes turns into a chaotic melee. These gold seleucid phalanxes are pretty good(can't spell the name). But i ques this is more realistic.

I have conquered most of Asia minor and punished the Seleucids for there offensive behaviour wich consisted out of not giving me what wanted when i asked for. All their settlements in Asia minor.

My aim is controlling the black sea wichs seems to me rather lucrative. I must decide if i am going to attack the Ptomolies. They are my allies and i do not want to betray them....yet.

[LegionairosMatt]

If you've got enough heavy cav (use scythed chariots) keep your general near your phalanx line to rally any fleeing troops.

[Invoker]

Be sure to read the link Florin gave, I found that after learning how to use cavalry properly to get that charge bonus, I took far less cavalry casualties. This is especially important for a faction with strong cavalry, which I think Pontus qualifies for.

[Pre]

I find it too many to remember, anyone willing to summarize? Pesonally I like to always have my cav marching so their less vulnerable, so when they say I have to let them regroup and form up for 30 seconds it kinda bugs me..

[General asFallion]

Personally i use the same tactic as Pre.
but actualy other way around. Pin the enemy with Nobles and have cav charge from back.

[Maximus Lazero]

Heh, as the Bactrians, I adapted my Roman formation to them: a center made out of your regular troops (Pezoi). On the flanks I have 2 units each of elite spearmen, placed slightly behind the main line, and backed up by 2 units of infantry, light or heavy. Behind the center I have 2 units of ranged units, and on one side or another, I'll have all 5 of my Kataphractoi and my general, as I decided they work better in mass numbers. The main line can stretch or condense, and engages the main force, while the flank spearmen take on anyone on the edges. The infantry can take care of more flankers, in the event the whole line is engaged, or simply swing around and begin taking their line apart bit by bit. My cavalry's job is to swing around, crush any targets of opportunity, namely the enemy general and other cavalry, chase off ranged units, and make a huge, massed charge into the backs of the enemy. Boom, fight's over, and it just comes down to my cavalry and archers chasing down the enemy.