Just what is 'orthodox' Christianity?

**Zenith Darksea** · September 22, 2006, 05:30 PM

This is something of a splinter from the thread 'Jesus Camp', and I thought it would make an interesting little talking point. I have my own opinions on this matter, but I'm sure that many other people will have interesting things to add. Incidentally, the word in the title is 'orthodox'*, not 'Orthodox'**.

What makes a Christian denomination 'orthodox'? Here is my own opinion on the matter. My opinion is formed somewhat from history, somewhat from the New Testament. Christ promised that the Church would be, "the pillar and bulwark of Truth" (1 Tim 3:15), and of course that "The Counsellor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you." (John 14:26).

It makes some sense to believe then that, when Christianity started to come under threat from doctrines that some considered heretical, the Church that was founded by the Apostles at Pentecost would come together to clarify things and indeed be guided "into all truth" (John 16:13). This happened in 325 AD, with the first of the seven Oecumenical Councils. This, to me, signifies one of the most important events in Christian history. It is wrong to say that these councils formulated doctrine, but they clarified it for all to see and rejected overwhelmingly (whatever lies Dan Brown happily spreads abroad) all thoughts alien to Christianity. Thus, it makes sense to me that the Church that follows the conclusions of the seven Oecumenical Councils is the Church that is to be considered 'orthodox'. Those denominations (eg. Anglicanism, Roman Catholicism et al.) that are deeply rooted in these Oecumenical Councils but which have, through accidence or design, fallen away from some of the findings or naughtily added some more, can be considered 'heterodox'. Those that knowingly reject these councils can be considered 'heretics'; however, there are not too many of these about.

Some will say that they don't take the Oecumenical Councils as being a measuring stick, but rather the Bible itself. What better way of deciding whether or not you're orthodox than seeing how closely you match up to the Bible? Marvellous! Except... it's not that simple. Thousands of varying denominations all claim that they match up most closely to the Bible. How can this be? Clearly there is more than one way of interpreting the whole thing. But wait, let's back track a little. The Bible may be difficult to interpret, but wasn't the Holy Spirit supposed to guide the Church into the truth?

The thing is of course that though these particular individuals think that, by taking the Oecumenical Councils as my measuring stick, I am in effect ignoring the Bible (unlike them!), that is of course entirely untrue. The people who sat on the Oecumenical Councils were not unconnected with the Bible. They were the same Church as founded by the Apostles and their disciples, the men who actually composed the New Testament, and as Christ promised that not even Hell would triumph against His Church (Matt. 16:18), it is not unreasonable to think that it is the same Church. The Church at the Oecumenical Councils was engaged in clarifying and interpreting the Bible and the word of God - therefore an appeal to the Oecumenical Councils is not to ignore Scriptures anymore than someone who prefers not to consider how the Holy Spirit guided the Church into all truth (and would like a stab at it themselves).

Thus I believe that the Church that holds to the conclusions of the Oecumenical Councils is the most 'orthodox' Christian denomination. What a happy coincidence then that the 'orthodox' Church turns out to be the Orthodox Church! That's not bias - that's historical fact, and undeniable.

I look forward to hearing others' views on this issue.

* Meaning 'right thinking', from the Greek orthodoxeia, as opposed to 'heterodox' ('different thinking') and 'heretical' (literally 'heresis' means 'choice', though it signifies a deliberate choice that goes in the opposite direction from the orthodox position).
** The name commonly attributed to Churches in the Sees of Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, Jerusalem and Moscow. Can also apply (separately) to the Church of Armenia and the Coptic Church, and sometimes to others (rather loosely).

**carl-the-conqueror** · September 23, 2006, 06:47 AM

the only thing i know about it is that it split from the catholic church, because it didnt beleive in purgatory, and the praying involved. imo the catholics are furthest from what they preach, poverty is golden (which religion has its own bank) paying for confessions etc and much more beside and almost all other christian denominations spring out from roman catholisism.

**Kara Kolyo** · September 23, 2006, 07:16 AM

carl as far as i remember the Orthodox church believes in the purgatory. we didn't actualy split of from the catholics. it was by mutual consent, which went together with mutual anatemas. there is option in the orthodox for confessions, but its not practiced so much and we don't believe that giving money to the church will grant you paradise. we have more lents and our priests can get married once

**nadjib** · September 23, 2006, 07:51 AM

Originally Posted by Kara Kolyo

carl as far as i remember the Orthodox church believes in the purgatory. we didn't actualy split of from the catholics. it was by mutual consent, which went together with mutual anatemas. there is option in the orthodox for confessions, but its not practiced so much and we don't believe that giving money to the church will grant you paradise. we have more lents and our priests can get married once

That's cool. Poor catholics priests

can't even have wife and children :'(

**Sammur-amat** · September 23, 2006, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by nadjib

That's cool. Poor catholics priests

can't even have wife and children :'(

you mean poor boys from church quire? (note;fact no offense plz)

considering topic: if any book can be interpreted on thousand ways, thats Bible..and different views lead to divide among all human not just clerics(see Sunni/Shis divide, Roman Catholic/Protestant, budhism/Lamaism..etc)..

**Zenith Darksea** · September 23, 2006, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by Kara Kolyo

carl as far as i remember the Orthodox church believes in the purgatory.

On the contrary, the doctrine of purgatory didn't appear until the nineteeth century, and Orthodoxy does not believe in purgatory. There is the place called 'Hades', but it doesn't say what happens there.

However, that wasn't actually the point about the topic. What I was asking was what people thought was the basis for calling a denomination 'Christian'. One of the points I made was that the Bible can be interpreted many ways, but that there was a series of definitive statements clarifying doctrine - the Oecumenical Councils.

**Dromikaites** · September 23, 2006, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by Zenith Darksea

On the contrary, the doctrine of purgatory didn't appear until the nineteeth century, and Orthodoxy does not believe in purgatory. There is the place called 'Hades', but it doesn't say what happens there.

Yeah, the 'Hades' the Orthodox don't define could be used to reconcile the Catholic notion of purgatory in case a reunion of the two churches ever happens. But that would require the Pope to accept he's just one of the leaders of the church, not the leader. The other option (the Orthodox Patriarchs acknowledging the Pope as their leader) has no historical grounds as the Pope never had any authority over Alexandria, Antioch, Constantinople, Jerusalem etc. OK he did have authority over Antioch and Jerusalem when the Crusaders were there, but not before the Great Schism. This makes the second option highly unlikely.

**Zenith Darksea** · September 25, 2006, 07:17 AM

Doesn't seem like many people want to debate the rather provocative and hardline position I laid out in my first post here. Where are the world's 80 million Evangelicals when you want a fight? Does nobody take issue with my definition of correct belief within Christianity?

**Kara Kolyo** · September 25, 2006, 09:02 AM

Probably they are busy fighting with the muslims

since i'm Orthodox i agree with you about the truth beiing revealed by the councils and it's hard for me to believe that a man could be infallable. not much of a dispute, but i'm not much of a theologist.
by the way i checked some Orthodox online enciclopaedias, which state that some of the Orthodox churces share the idea of purgatory, that the Catholic church has. unfortunatelly the things i saw were in bulgarian/russian so i don't provide the links here, but i'll keep on searching