A Plea to CA for a new engine instead of a soon next Total War game. DX12 may deal the cards anew for Rome 2.

[sgthunter]

Future Total War games will be limited by console capabilities not PC capabilities

[Jade Falcon]

Future Total War games will be limited by console capabilities not PC capabilities

I agree with this assessment. Its getting increasingly obvious CA's ultimate goals don't involve catering to PC gamers. Their future is the console market and they will probably get a lot of mileage out of rehashing warscape.

[DramaBelli]

SGHUNTER, definitive sentence, ironic and true if nothing arrives to shut up us in terms of concrete demonstrations we're wrong. I agree with this thread. Despite of the 32/64 bit OS, the main fact is that the engine is weak and old also for medium rig users. Engine-game limitations are related NOT to a lack of hardware support by many users (official CA forum is full of guys with decent rigs having unacceptable issues and all with good OS and RAM support...and what about fanatics with 32gb ram?)) So, not only the warscape is old, BUT it's ALSO bad optimised. I'm not a skilled informatic but by my experience I've seen how smoothly can run a well optimised game on my old rig (I mean shogun).

I had this doubt also during summer, when some people explained me that more cores and ram would not guarantee me Majestic performance since Rome 2 is based on the old engine.

What I say now is: if you CA must no develop a new expensive engine cause of economical reasons related to many aspects well, fly down and leave the new features for a game incoming in some years and at present time, follow a safe course looking for the old glorious features from other games.

Less and better.

[Jade Falcon]

Whos to even say that SEGA will even allow them to waste development time and money on a new engine? Rome II has already proven that with a clever (dubious) PR marketing campaign you can sell anything no matter how flawed it actually is. Why bother when they can churn out TW clones based on Rome II's model for their newly aquired fanbase that will happily buy shallow and unfinished products for years. Besides the flaws of warscape have been pointed out to them numerous times and they never took a blind bit of notice.

While we might think warscape is useless and needs replacing. Do CA and SEGA really feel the same?

[Humble Warrior]

Whos to even say that SEGA will even allow them to waste development time and money on a new engine? Rome II has already proven that with a clever (dubious) PR marketing campaign you can sell anything no matter how flawed it actually is. Why bother when they can churn out TW clones based on Rome II's model for their newly aquired fanbase that will happily buy shallow and unfinished products for years. Besides the flaws of warscape have been pointed out to them numerous times and they never took a blind bit of notice.

While we might think warscape is useless and needs replacing. Do CA and SEGA really feel the same?

This. They`re going to use Warscape and keep using modified versions until it`s a dried husk. Making something new costs time and money. Doing it for the something better? The love of it? Is gone. It`s all bare bones cash now.

[krisslanza]

This. They`re going to use Warscape and keep using modified versions until it`s a dried husk. Making something new costs time and money. Doing it for the something better? The love of it? Is gone. It`s all bare bones cash now.

"Now"? It's ALWAYS been about money. Only indie devs can really afford to make games "for fun". Any corporation of CA's size is making games for the money. They all have families to feed and bills to pay. It's always about making a profit. You make a good game, and you get fans. You make a good SERIES, and you get more fans.

But then all it takes is for them to make one game that some people don't like, and now apparently they're as bad as EA.

[alQamar]

"Now"? It's ALWAYS been about money. Only indie devs can really afford to make games "for fun". Any corporation of CA's size is making games for the money. They all have families to feed and bills to pay. It's always about making a profit. You make a good game, and you get fans. You make a good SERIES, and you get more fans.

But then all it takes is for them to make one game that some people don't like, and now apparently they're as bad as EA.

Good morning Kriss. You are very right with that, but what happens when you have only one cow and overmilk it for cash till the udder is purulent. This is what CA does. They are clearly and visibly to cut off the tree they are sitting on and once they dropped and people are distracted to buy an technically aged game which works utterly bad on current hardware there is no cash to get. Then their families should be concerned about the situation.

[krisslanza]

Good morning Kriss. You are very right with that, but what happens when you have only one cow and overmilk it for cash till the udder is purulent. This is what CA does. They are clearly and visibly to cut off the tree they are sitting on and once they dropped and people are distracted to buy an technically aged game which works utterly bad on current hardware there is no cash to get. Then their families should be concerned about the situation.

I think it's been pointed out many times that Rome 2 was a pretty huge commercial success. Long-time fans may have disliked it, but money is money.

Anyway, as I said earlier, with a new console generation around the corner, it is likely they are considering a new engine at this point. The original engine that Rome 1 used was used in Rome 1, Shogun 1, Medieval 1 and Medieval 2, right? Warscape is on Empire, Napolean, Shogun 2/Rise of the Samurai/Fall of the Samurai, and now Rome 2. It's probably reached the end of its expected usage so I would expect another engine for the next Total War, and if not, the next one after that.

Rome 2 has kind of shown they are really reaching the limits of a 32-bit engine, if they want the game to be as large as Rome 2. If they keep it smaller though, it can keep up.

[alQamar]

While I think you are both right we should at least try to show them it is interesting to begin with.

I claimed the same in 2011 as Shogun 2 was released, I got backuped by some .com tech mods and others but never though we could get into that serious problems we have in Rome 2 so quickly.

If we manage to get those 2200 people voted here like on the family tree on .com this thread should end up useful and perhaps they leave us a feedback on this thread aswell, regardless the content. (I honestly doubt that because of the poll restrictions for guests and new members)

On .com there are 3 or 4 main threads for performance issues and non of them yet have been answered properly, at least they changed the status so it seems they are looking into the issue now, but that is just a rumor. I will not believe anything until I do not see the results on my screen.

Keep up the fire... (not for the gates)

[M2TWRocks]

"A new engine?! Hahahaha! Why would I do that?"

[KingCrr]

If I wait and I am going to get a top notch game, like MTW2, then I would seriously be willing to shell out more than $60. I bought MTW2 for $20 with all the DLC and expansions. I got hundreds upon hundreds of hours playing that game for $20 and free MODS. I would have paid $60 and then some, maybe $80. But now I can't trust CA and TW any more. I would prefer to wait a few years to get a new engine and then wait another year or 2 for it to be optimized and modded and price reduced 80%.

[BroskiDerpman]

Gen.Maximus sums up most of my thoughts on Warscape. Heck it can't even authentically display gunpowder warfare.


There's no denying the plebs love Rome 2 though...

I think CA is going to keep Warscape for a while, they can still sell games off it so why not save some effort.

[TheCenturion24]

Agreed, agreed again and triple agreed. The engine, in my opinion, is what really brought down Rome II. It worked in Empire, Napoleon and Shogun. People are complaining about optimization, again I really don't understand where this is coming from, and people posting images of the low end LOD models is getting old. The bare mechanics need rebuilding, not the little things.

[Rittsy]

The way they talk about Rome II, I wouldn't be surprised if this was a long-term supported game (3 years-ish) until the next new Total War is released. By the time of the next potential release the engine would be around about 5-6 years old, so would either require a significant update or to be re-written completely. There's a good chance Rome II will be the last Warscape game, but I don't think we'll see another Total War for 3-4 years.

[General Maximus]

The thing is, they are lazy. Creating a new engine, even though it is REALLY needed now, requires enormous amount of time (maybe years), money and skilled employees. CA and SEGA are with that quick cash-cow tendency. They won't develop a new engine until they have squeezed every last bag of coin they can with this engine.

[krisslanza]

The thing is, they are lazy. Creating a new engine, even though it is REALLY needed now, requires enormous amount of time (maybe years), money and skilled employees. CA and SEGA are with that quick cash-cow tendency. They won't develop a new engine until they have squeezed every last bag of coin they can with this engine.

Well that's just good business sense. Why make a new engine if the old one is still usable? It's better to make a new one when you just flat out can't make a new/better game without making a new engine. Engines aren't cheap to make. There's a reason a lot of companies just buy the license to use someone else's engine, rather then make their own.

[retarded_strong]

Well that's just good business sense. Why make a new engine if the old one is still usable? It's better to make a new one when you just flat out can't make a new/better game without making a new engine. Engines aren't cheap to make. There's a reason a lot of companies just buy the license to use someone else's engine, rather then make their own.

Well, if Sega and CA aren't at least THINKING about developing or licensing a new 64-bit engine for their next major release they'd be shooting themselves in the foot. Especially now when we got the Xbone One and PS4 just around the corner - I think 64-bit gaming will start to heat up (ex: Battlefield 4 will be 64 bit only). Anyway, I'm definitely not an expert on the subject, but I would think it takes a fair amount of time to simply LEARN how to develop on a fancy new engine. If that's the case and Rome II is the extent of Warscape's capabilities... it might be time for a 64-bit engine. I mean, think about it, the only thing the Total War series has going for it is graphics - it sure as hell isn't (LOL) gameplay.

[Rittsy]

The thing is, they are lazy. Creating a new engine, even though it is REALLY needed now, requires enormous amount of time (maybe years), money and skilled employees. CA and SEGA are with that quick cash-cow tendency. They won't develop a new engine until they have squeezed every last bag of coin they can with this engine.

Lazy? Very few game developers are lazy. Engines are expensive to develop and time consuming. There's a reason why you see so many developers licencing them rather than build there own. Chances are the major failures of this game are due to project management (ie. time) and publisher demands rather than the engine. Wasn't the game originally slated for an October release which is Q4 (fiscal quarter 4)? But then brought forward to September (Q3)? Seems more likely they ran short on time so Sega could have a better looking Q3 to investors.

[krisslanza]

Lazy? Very few game developers are lazy. Engines are expensive to develop and time consuming. There's a reason why you see so many developers licencing them rather than build there own. Chances are the major failures of this game are due to project management (ie. time) and publisher demands rather than the engine. Wasn't the game originally slated for an October release which is Q4 (fiscal quarter 4)? But then brought forward to September (Q3)? Seems more likely they ran short on time so Sega could have a better looking Q3 to investors.

Actually they may have aimed for Q3 release because Q4 is also Christmas. There's a LOT of competition around that time. They probably figured it'd be better to release a quarter early and fix the problems between then and there, then risk releasing in Q4 and having those same issues. KOTOR2 was practically killed for being rushed a Q4 release and no one has ever forgiven them for that.

[perifanosEllinas]

Agreed.A new functional engine is needed for the next title.Warscape has proved dysfunctional so far,even for the game it was designed for,Empire.

...The engine, in my opinion, is what really brought down Rome II. ...The bare mechanics need rebuilding, not the little things.

Deep inside we all knew that this engine was wrong for Rome 2,but most of us tried to stay positive until release.I totally agree that the bare mechanics need rebuilding and that the engine brought down TWR2.The bad news is that I also agree with this

The thing is, they are lazy. Creating a new engine, even though it is REALLY needed now, requires enormous amount of time (maybe years), money and skilled employees. CA and SEGA are with that quick cash-cow tendency. They won't develop a new engine until they have squeezed every last bag of coin they can with this engine.

That's also my impression mate.They don't seem willing to move from this engine until they have squeezed every last bag of coin they can.