A Plea to CA for a new engine instead of a soon next Total War game. DX12 may deal the cards anew for Rome 2.

[alQamar]

Indeed, but I think they have a plan for it all, for again animation isn't my biggest fear.
Still think they can pull it of :3

That's for sure. Based on the information we got from the Modding Summit in 2014, they admit that they are looking into 64bit technology, but not directly said that they are already working on it, nor confirming they are working on a complete new engine for that, nor even giving a vague date or game that would use it. So it is all kept secret, as usual.

[Karnil Vark Khaitan]

That's for sure. Based on the information we got from the Modding Summit in 2014, they admit that they are looking into 64bit technology, but not directly said that they are already working on it, nor confirming they are working on a complete new engine for that, nor even giving a vague date or game that would use it. So it is all kept secret, as usual.

That would not surprise me, but I do hope they succeed in making it happen just as much as for a update for the current mod tools.
That makes me wonder; I do not hope they a spread out to thin!

[Dago Red]

Clearly, they are going to milk this sacrificial cow known as Rome 2 to the bitter end. I can't believe how little has changed in yet another new major expansion that's being billed as a stand alone title. Atilla doesn't fix anything from the broken warscape engine (but does add more hideous cartoon effects and icons). The future of Total War gaming, at least for the next few years, is in the past, on the M2TW engine -- the last great game CA made out of the box.

[alQamar]

It's time for a new engine Attila sets new records in LOW FPS at maxed out settings (granted it has MSAA now), even on enthusiast configurations.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1#post14358391

[Butan]

Even big video game reviewers were letting it through that the battles were kind of laggy and overall poor performance. But really, poorer than Rome 2 is a record...

[alQamar]

Yes I saw this on the list of cons at gamespot. Definitely they have reached the limits with Attila and this engine. Only DirectX 12 could solve this for Rome 2 and Attila, if they implement a basic support at least.

[General Maximus]

Did they use multiple cores this time?

[alQamar]

Hello Maximus, multi core was actually supported quite well in Rome 2 as I've posted some examplary results with several CPUs, cannot find this buried thread now.

Here is an example of an early test I've made:


and according to these pre-release benchmarks also Attila offers MC support and as it seems even better HT (hyperthreading) support.

[alQamar]

Very unfortunately I have to admit that I have to stop this thread. Due to a wrong documentation of Microsoft Recovery Partition Creator I lost the file, containing all the data, and there is no backup that allows a reconstruction.
Thank you for your long term support!

[alQamar]

potentially bad news for those waiting for DX12.

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrac..._support_dx12/

Creative Assembly stated in interviews "they are looking into it" when they are asked wether they plan to bring DX12 to Warhammer (or not), not even to speak about existing games. Meanwhile and in my opinion MS is also to blame because they presented DX 12 as a technology that would not need new hardware to be "supported" but the definition of "supports" seems now to be revealed. For me it does not look like DX12 can be just implemented by a piece of software (drivers or patches for a game).

Time will tell the full truth.

[A Barbarian]

For me it does not look like DX12 can be just implemented by a piece of software (drivers or patches for a game).

DX12 has many potential features. There is currently no GPU which supports all of them in hardware, that's true. But it's absolutely not necessary for software to use the complete DX12 feature set. Each game will use the subset of features which make most sense for its requirements.

And of course it would be possible to utilize the multi-threading command queuing feature of DX12 in the TW engine (in order to reduce the single core CPU bottleneck in TW games). That's one of the most basic DX12 features which essentially every GPU produced in the last 4 or 5 years supports.

[alQamar]

So then lads, I don't expect that Warhammer - even though its more complex graphics compared to Rome 2 and Attila - will have a 64bit engine.
The complexity I refer to, is naturally based on what we can see in the ingame trailers:

- more complex models and huge units (polygon intensive), flying units
- fire and effects

It took me some time to update my stats and they clearly indicate that CA and SEGA are punishing a large majority of fans and players by not introducing a 64bit engine finally.




The impact of poor optimisation is given:

I had a 6th gen core i7 6700HQ (3.5 GHz) laptop along with a GTX 970M at hand and ran the Attila benchmark with Extreme preset at 1080p = 20 fps average
My computer with an 2th gen core i7 2600K (5.2 GHz) with a GTX 970 delivers 33 fps at the same resolution and quality.

If I run 3DMark Firestrike 64bit extreme on both computers the performance gap is much more evident, whereas my computer is about TWICE as fast as this laptop.

The quite small gap (about 1/3) compared to the gap in 3Dmark shows the very bad optimization of the Warscape engine for high end computers.

Since Attilas release there is NO performance change despite patches, Windows 10 optimisations (tested on beta back then) and many Nvidia drivers that have passed.

The performance in Attila today is exactly the same as I measured it when it got released. Rome 2 improved performance a bit over time.

The potential influence of DX 12 has been debunked. In opposite what Microsoft said back then, DX 12 does not necessarily need new hardware but it needs a massive rewrite and optimisation of code, to make noticeable changes. Also not all features of DX12 that influence performance are automatically supported by DX10.1 and even current DX11 cards, that means that in the end some featureset of DX12 are going to be unlocked by DX 12 cards, that are yet to come. Means the previous statements are just the half truth.

[Frimon67]

Thank you alQamar for your thread and your plea to CA. Even though I bought all TW portfolio up to Rome 2, I have decided not to buy any one else game until CA does not release a 64 bit engine. I think if they stay in such position they will lose their customers and finally they will close their development studio. It is a shame because I love their games, but I cannot support their current strategy. If you do not invest in the IT industry, you're dead.

[wangrin]

We can only hope that next "Historical" TW engine will be x64 architecture.
Since CA will have some more years to develop it (Attila engines are very close to Rome 2 one and the new Warhammer title will certainly use a modified version of Attila/Rome 2 engine, so it keep room for a 2017 or 2018 new TW title), it is maybe possible.

At least, CA was well aware about the limitations of x32 architecture as pointed out during 2014 Modding Summit.

[alQamar]

We can only hope that next "Historical" TW engine will be x64 architecture.
Since CA will have some more years to develop it (Attila engines are very close to Rome 2 one and the new Warhammer title will certainly use a modified version of Attila/Rome 2 engine, so it keep room for a 2017 or 2018 new TW title), it is maybe possible.

At least, CA was well aware about the limitations of x32 architecture as pointed out during 2014 Modding Summit.

Well that's for sure. When I was on the Arena event I talked to Gabor and a developer about this topic. I think we all concur that it is a must have to migrate but it is uncertain when it will happen. No one seem or do not want to share any timelime. I will try to keep this thread updated, not sure if I will do this on a monthly basis though.

[alQamar]

Hi everyone,

our dream has come true. TW Warhammer will be first TW title to support a 64bit engine and more over CA makes quite clear statements about which hardware is needed to expect which kind of framerate, also setting up recommended specs for 60+ fps experience. source: http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Total_War_WARHAMMER_Specs

This is truely amazing. My pessimistic fears about this would not happen for Warhammer, have been proven wrong, but I wonder why they actually have hidden this amazing fact about TW:WH, which might be even the most interesting detail to me, for such a long time and so short till release. Perhaps they wanted to assure that the 64bit code works fine prior before announcing anything that might be troubled after launch.

NOW I am excited and will likely continue the works on a seperate benchmark thread for Total War: Warhammer.

[NostalgiaFan]

Nevermind got my answer.

[wangrin]

I didn't expect such good news for Warhammer:TW.
I was wrong thinking that CA will not release a 64bit engine before the next historic. Ca prove to be more reactive than I though, an excellent news.