A Plea to CA for a new engine instead of a soon next Total War game. DX12 may deal the cards anew for Rome 2.
Important disclaimer:
I found my thread linked and discussed on reddit. Thanks for your active discussion there (and here) and special thanks for someone submitting it on reddit. From what read on reddit, I really need to make one certain thing clear.
This thread is NOT about "a 64bit engine will fix the game's issues". It is about the need of a new engine. Sorry if this was misunderstood because I handled this certain aspect so much in the OP and feeded it with stats.
The only reason why I picked up the 64bit discussion is, because it would be technically short sighted to make a new engine still on 32bit instead of native 64bit. Basically it would be a waste of time, not optimizing new code for native 64bit compilers and performant execution. Both for his own has advantages and risks.
However the main goal of this thread is that we need a proper and new engine for titles like Rome 2 and TW games based on melee combat as Warscape is not capable to fulfill the needs and technically does not meet the todays systems, seems to use them inefficiently.
Shireknight, a well known ex-moderator on totalwar.com and old TW chap, also agreed it is time for this step in his signature.
Thank you for everyone that is supporting "the idea" of this thread.
Why did you make the decision to remove seasons?
Q&A
Edit: same reason (memory budget) was stated by CraigTW why units have much less variations in case of battle animations as Creative Assembly would like to introduce in Rome 2 and we expected them to do based on some footage delivered before the game was released. -> just think about ElephantsTrishCA: There are technical limitations in implementing seasons over such a large (and diverse) geographic area and this would have raised the memory budget (and required specs) to unacceptable levels. Depending on the design for future titles, and potentially DLC, this is certainly a feature we’d like to include.their animation is so basic.
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Dear Creative Assembly, to solve this problems you called "memory budget / technical limitations" for God sake accept that 32bit is dead and move on to 64 bit gaming. Please stop enhancing Warscape and finally make a new scalable engine working on 64bit.
71,91
Actually according to Steam stats 71,91 % have a 64 bit OS installed, which does not mean rest cannot install it by technical limitations, but likely means others are lazy to upgrade, as there is a very neglibile faction of gamers which do not have hardware to install a 64bit OS as the CPUs are compatible since ages (from 2003)!
On Steam you proudly tell us Rome 2 is offering a scalable experience regardless your rig.
You know it is not true. If not we know now and told you across thousands posts.
HOW LONG will you continue to punish us and your own passionated minds - cutting out features because you run out of memory (RAM)?
67,76 % of all players on Steam have 4 GB RAM or more installed, while you fixing an Empire based engine limited to 3,6 GB for legacy technical reasons.
Please consider this. We do not need a next TW title soon, we need a scalable modern game engine that supports the past, the now and future of hardware.
I know very good the main portion of fans do not care at all for those "details" as all they want is to play a game - as soon as possible to feel satisfied. All people having the open mind to think about short term taken decisions and their consequences may tell you the opposite.
TW is about to die on performance and features on current hardware if you keep following your path of using your aged Warscape Engine on the next 2 titles. You used it long enough. You earned hopefully enough money with Rome 2 to make it happen, if you do not spent it into crap rip offs like Shogun Battles.
As a member of the forums on totalwar.com and a volunteer for the technical and multiplayer support, I raised my voice for that when Shogun 2 was released back in 2011.
Just a half year later after you released Shogun 2, while it was still in an awful state, you came across committing that you are already working on Rome 2. Me and a lot of others felt paralysed. Your praisings of having a 40% higher budget, the promised work spent on the AI (blabla), the amazing trailers and ingame footage, the promised "scalability regardless our rigs" which is still part of your advertising on Steam, all that faked us to believe you could again make a huge leap as you did with DX11 introduction in Shogun 2. Less of that happenend. You see the mess around in all forums accross the world not only .com and TWC, or just have a look on your Facebook account or your beloved metacritics. If a journalism instance like the British Guardian needs to be the first to feel free to criticsm your game AFTER it was released, this tells many.
Only a few are willing to support this game with constructive critism, modding and whatever they could do. However regardless all hope and faith lost:
THIS vote and thread is my attempt. One out of the many to open your minds for the future of Total War, your jobs and our both beloved game.
Nearly 2 years passed since I spoke about the need of a new engine, after all the generated hype, before you released your specs I even believed you did work on a new engine.
Till today dear Creative Assembly, you hide your plans, despite you do not have any meaningful competitors you say nothing in regard of this case and any meaningful future plans, what do you fear?
I can understand companies like Apple and Samsung doing this, living from the hype and secrets. While you do not have to fear - yet- any other game in case of RTS including realtime battles, why aren't you willing to
let happen what you often enough acclaimed? Working with your community.
Not all of our demands and ideas can be heard and implemented as we all have limited time and ressources. Reasonably.
But some of those are worth to be answered, but not like "we consider this for a next game" or "the forums are a great source, but [...] we are paid to have own ideas".
The poll attached will hopefully be an indicator for you, if people are willing to wait for next game. Same as other polls showing some reasons for their disappointing
Thank you very much for listening and "implementing" and schedule this project finally.
Yours sincerely,
al Qamar
This should not turn out as another of the thousands rant threads. Please post your thoughts but keep it civil. I am looking forward to your replies and will honestly try to answer your questions timely.
Moderation disclaimer: Eventhough this thread is very technical it does not belong to the tech section at all as it plays vital role for the whole community now and in future. Thanks for keeping it here in the main.
A Sticky would be cool.
Questions & Answers
Q: Do you really think CA can handle this, as they are quite a small studio, and SEGA as their quite only shareholder is in fincancial troubles?
A: This is why I asked you if you are willing to wait for a next TW, probably even 2 or 3 years, I do not know how many ressources and men/womenpower CA has. However they seem to have good relations to vendors like AMD and Intel which may help them the same way they did for DirectX11 implementation and iGPU implementation former.
Q: How can you expect that making a 64bit native engine will solve the problems we have in case of performance and other warscape issues like pathfinding etc?
A: I never said having 64bit is the key but if you see the market it would be a waste of ressources to begin development of a complete new engine, and still construct it on 32bit, as 64bit programming needs complete different skills and ressources. So most of all I would like to see the majority of gamers fighting here for a new engine, a new beginning to iron out the flaws we accept since decades now and which is running natively 64bit as a welcome addition. However to achieve a reasonable performance it need to be done more or less FROM THE SCRATCH.
Q: What about the people which does not have a 64bit OS, why should CA decide to switch and leave a potential 30 % behind?
A: The first 64 bit CPU capable was introduced in 2003 so BEFORE Rome 1 was released. AMD did manufacture a 64bit CPU with the AMD FX 64, a single core CPU, Intels Pentium 4 Prescott followed up in 2005.
If we take the people into account that could upgrade their current Windows for free without any cost (explained later), we have only 12% percent left (Windows XP 32bit) and not 30% anymore.
I doubt that there is any computer out there that runs Rome 2 without the technical capability to run a 64 bit OS. This is quite a fact as the computer must be older than from 2005, which would unlikely be able to run R2 at all. The most people that still run a 32bit OS do not upgrade due to limited RAM (less than 4 GB) or because of even simple laziness.
Q: The upgrade from a current Windows Vista / 7 / 8 to a 64bit version would cost me additional money
A: That is not true. If you have a legit Windows Key you are allowed to use it either for a 32bit or 64bit installment. So all you need is a DVD for the installation, which is easy to get for free.
Q: Upgrading to a 64bit OS still gives me a lot of work and I need to redownload the Steam Games over my (slow) internet connection.
A: It is true that you cannot directly upgrade and need a reinstallation of Windows. However it is very easy. Microsoft offers the Easy Transfer Assistant for simplifying this procedure. Windows settings and data, aswell as Steam can be moved to a external HDD or another large enough partition and back later without a lot of problem and the hassle of redownloading your Steam games.
Q: Is a 64bit OS a benefit when I have less than 4 GB RAM
A: No, the 64bit environment needs a little more RAM than the 32bit does, also for realtime emulation of the 32bit application environment. However 4 GB are well enough to serve the most basic technical needs for Windows Vista, 7 and 8 and gaming. And aslong you do not have DDR1 RAM an upgrade is reasonable and cheap.
Q: Do I need more / additional hardware than a 64bit capable CPU to install a 64bit OS.
A: bascially not. The internal driver support of Windows is very good even if your OEM does not originally offer 64bit drivers for your hardware.
Reply With Quote
Originally Posted by krisslanza
as this engine is..... what matters is optimize this engine, thats the big issue of this engine is they somewhat keep ignoring it..... so dont see the point of make a new engine that will have the same flaws....just for the sake of wasting money in a new engine..... they dont need new engine, they need is NEW STAFF THAT CAN DEAL WITH THIS ENGINE LIKE A PROFESSIONAL.....
