I need help sieging cities

[PunchDrunk]

How am I supposed to win sieges when I'm outnumbered 2:1? I recently tried to attack a city ( no walls, just a village ) when I had 1,200 soldiers and the village had the same amount I had. I besieged it only to find that they had reinforcements ( I'm guessing from the city ) with 1,000 soldiers. I ended up losing the engagement. What am I supposed to do in this situation? I'm playing on Hard, btw.

[Humble Warrior]

How am I supposed to win sieges when I'm outnumbered 2:1? I recently tried to attack a city ( no walls, just a village ) when I had 1,200 soldiers and the village had the same amount I had. I besieged it only to find that they had reinforcements ( I'm guessing from the city ) with 1,000 soldiers. I ended up losing the engagement. What am I supposed to do in this situation? I'm playing on Hard, btw.

Get more men.

[PunchDrunk]

Get more men.

Wow! Such great advice!

[Humble Warrior]

Wow! Such great advice!

Actually, I`m serious.

Go back, recruit at least 50% more men then return.

Most sieges (in real life) could not be won with the same or even slightly less defenders. Treat walls as like 500+ extra men for the defender. You need that many men just to make an assault to win. In reality, you needed at least 2\3rds extra men or you`d lose.

[krisslanza]

What is the quality of your troops? If the quality of troops is matched, Humble is pretty correct. You just need more bodies. Unless you have superior troops - either by simply being better troops, or experience, or upgrades or something - you'll have a hard time winning a lopsided battle like that.

What is your army make up exactly? And what are you fighting specifically? Numbers alone isn't really going to give us a good idea of your situation.

[PunchDrunk]

What is the quality of your troops? If the quality of troops is matched, Humble is pretty correct. You just need more bodies. Unless you have superior troops - either by simply being better troops, or experience, or upgrades or something - you'll have a hard time winning a lopsided battle like that.

What is your army make up exactly? And what are you fighting specifically? Numbers alone isn't really going to give us a good idea of your situation.

Im playing Macedonia and I literally just started. My army is a couple javelins, a few hoplites and about 6 levy pikemen. I'm going after Tylis and their army is just as bad as mine, quality wise. So I'm fighting barbarians basically.

[Pinkie Pie]

How did you conduct your attack and what difficulty level do you have it set on?

[|Sith|Galvanized Iron]

Get better men. A hanful of praetorians can for example kill 5000 tuaregs in a siege assault whilst losing less than 10 men without a problem.

[PunchDrunk]

Get better men. A hanful of praetorians can for example kill 5000 tuaregs in a siege assault whilst losing less than 10 men without a problem.

I know, I'm not very expirienced at combat at the moment. How so you suggest I get better?

[♠ Thomas Cochrane ♠]

well there's your problem! Tylis can be an aggressive nut to crack, but you need sword infantry to really smash the barbarians. In fact you need sword infantry for all enemies who aren't cavalry focused!
I correct myself: I think units with high defense and armour and shields are going to be the best way to beat barbarians, as they're more likely to break once they discover they can't beat you through aggression alone. That's why Principes are THAT much better than Hastati at barbarian mulching. Hastati die molto velocemente

[jkjktotalwar]

LMAO just get ALL ranged units, the AI just sits there and you can shoot them until you run out of ammo. If you can't win by then just retreat and repeat.

[|Sith|Galvanized Iron]

With Rome that is easy, you research the first 3 techs in the military organization tree, then you just upgrade your barracks in Rome and start pumping out Praetorians, they are costly to recruit, but what matters is the upkeep cost and it is barely more than for regular legionaries. With these beasts you can basicly just order them to make a frontal assault and they will come out on top pretty much unscratched. Just don't autoresolve with them as it does not do them justice.

[wulfgar610]

With Rome that is easy, you research the first 3 techs in the military organization tree, then you just upgrade your barracks in Rome and start pumping out Praetorians, they are costly to recruit, but what matters is the upkeep cost and it is barely more than for regular legionaries. With these beasts you can basicly just order them to make a frontal assault and they will come out on top pretty much unscratched. Just don't autoresolve with them as it does not do them justice.

Hopefully CA will put the unit limit on them.

[karamazovmm]

you are trying to beat tylis in the beginning, well its not hard nor impossible

at first in the campaign I just recruit what I can, given that tylis is very passive, I go for epirus first. but thats campaign choices, now for battle...

I usually go at my first army with 4-6 slingers, 4-6 javelins, and the rest is hoplite or levy pikes I preferably go with hoplites at first with macedon, simply because they are troops that are going to last longer in the armies and you need to be very aggressive in the start battles

So, the battle plan is to divide your troops as equally as you can in 2 groups, attack using slingers first let them be dry of ammo and the move with the hoplites and the javelins

charge with hoplites and use the javelins for support, or if the enemy doesn't have ranged units anymore, just harass it with javelins

that usually results in a win.

but given that you don't have much in terms of abilities, when you are going in soon for the enemies, the best tech that you research is siege tech, yes get that workshop up and running and start pumping up to 4 ballistas in your army.

you will see that the enemy doesn't sally, and they don't have artillery so early in the game, so you have a huge advantage, and with some pikes in your army and the logical behaviour of the AI that is in open battles to attack the artillery, you have killed a lot of units before they arrive in your lines, and the pikes will make short work of the enemy units

a good rooster at the start with artie, is simple

8 pikes, 1 general companion cavalry, 4 ballista, 3 cavalry (it can be light or whatever, they are meant to kill skirmishers) and 4 hoplites

strategy is simple:

bombard from afar, when the skirmishers hit your line, start moving your pikes towards a space behind the enemy, i order them to run, before they reach the enemy lines i order them to walk, the hoplites should be moving a bit behind to avoid flanking moves, and use those guys to counter. cavalry is going for a pincer move for the skirmishers, when they are done, just hit whatever unit is still standing

for sieges, just bombard from afar and move the pikes in similar manner, they are killing machines

thats the set up of my 2 first armies, after I researched everything that is needed to boost by 200bc Im going to start to change those troops, with royal peltasts instead of hoplites or a mix of them and will substitute the units with their higher end counterparts

hellas province is the best one to produce troops, its a small province so its less waste of food and happiness

[Rights of the Individual]

Carl von Clausewitz once said that the attacker must have atleast a 3:1 ratio in numbers to make a successful assault on a prepared defensive position. You can get away with 1:1 and 2:1 in RTWII if you're a competent commander and financially squared away, but it's not recommended.

I try to use a 3:1 ratio, but if not atleast 3:2

[ikyu828]

bring artillery, ballista is good enough and can destroy wall and tower
and if possible research tech that gives 50% more ammo

[AngryTitusPullo]

Just wait out the siege. Earlier campaign usually it takes 2-3 turns.The late campaign however is different. Some take 10 turns so bring few armies and if the settlement have posts then make to sure blockade the port since it took down the time from 10 turns to maybe 5 turns.

[Buddha]

Hi. I've been playing Total War games for 13 years (since Shogun: Total War came out 13 years ago), and I own most of the Total War games. So, I have a little experience.

I see some of these replies in this thread and I have to SMH a little. Why are people telling you to make late game Roman elite infantry troops when you are playing as Macedonia in the early game?
That's just idiotic advice. Don't worry. I'll help set you straight.


Overview
When I play as Macedonia, I like to start off by conquering Epirus, Athens and Sparta first (and Crete, if it's not too much trouble).
I know you start off with Athens as your vassal and allied with Sparta, but in my most recent game as Macedon, Sparta broke their treaty with me pretty early and Athens' relations with me got lower and lower each turn,
and I could see that they too would eventually turn on me. In any case, those snobby Greeks always looked down upon Macedonians. You should teach them a lesson and just wipe them all out
Usually, I hit Epirus first since they're usually weak and you're already hostile with them anyway. Athens is a very rich city and really boosts your early game economy.
In the early game, try to conquer enemies one at a time.
You may end up at war with Athens and Sparta simultaneously, and that can get tricky.
Try to fight only 1 stack army at a time. If you see combined forces, retreat back, divide and conquer.
Those Spartan Hoplites and Royal Spartan Guards are no joke. You don't want to have to face an entire Athenian army backing up a Spartan army.
After I take care of the Greeks to the south, THEN I turn north and go for the Thracian lands (Tylis, Odryssian Kingdom, etc).

It seems like you are brand new to the game, so I just want to let you know that whenever you attack a city,
not only do you face the enemy army you see on the campaign map there, but you also face the city garrison army as well (and also, naval support, if it's a port city).
The size and quality of the city garrison army depends on the level of the city itself (in the beginning the cities are usually level 1 or 2),
and also the buildings in that city (for example, a military building will add a couple of units of troops to the garrison, usually of higher quality)

Early Game Army Composition
You said that you're attacking a village without walls, so this is not really a siege. You're basically fighting a normal battle that happens to have a bunch of buildings on the battlefield.
Early on, the quality of troops will be low for everybody, and there's not a lot of variety of troops to choose from, so you basically have to win with numerical superiority for the most part.
I'm guessing this early in the game, you do not have ballista yet. Later on in the game, I always have ballista around.
They have pretty awesome long range attack, a fire bomb attack option which just decimates massed troops, plus you can use them to destroy walls and gates (use the regular shots for destroying bulidings due to higher accuracy)

So instead of ballista, use lots of slingers. Slingers are really, really good. They are better than javelins. I never use javelins with any faction. They're kind of pointless.
Javelins are hybrid troops. Half range/half melee troops. The thing is, they're not that good at either role. They do have a few very specific uses where they really shine (like against elephants), but in general, they are not worth it.
Slingers have the longest range out of all missile troops and they have a ton of ammo. Don't be fooled by their cheap cost and low quality.
Just don't let them do any hand to hand fighting. They will be annihilated.
In some of my battles, my slinger units have 150-250 kills each. Most of my elite infantry units don't get that many kills.

So early on, you want your army to be slingers (like 6 of them), a roughly even mix of hoplites and levy pikemen (maybe 6 each) and your general (i usually pick cavalry generals), and an extra cavalry unit if you feel like.
Cavalry, generally speaking, aren't as useful in city battles, although you can dismount them now unlike in Rome 1.
So, 6 slingers, 6 pikemen, 6 hoplites and 1 cavalry, plus 1 general = full stack 20 units.
If you already conquered Macedonia and Hellas provinces first like I recommended, then you can afford this army.
If you didn't and just have your starting lands, then you probably can't afford this army. If so, then have a little less infantry and cavalry, but try to still have 6 slingers.

Remember, this is only an early game army.
Later on, when I get better stuff, I replace 2 slingers with 2 ballistae and upgrade infantry, cavalry, etc.

Hoplites are pretty nice troops that most early barbarian troops cannot match. They will serve you well into the mid-game.
The only thing about Hoplites is that they wear very heavy armor and tire out very quickly. Try not to have them do a lot of running.

Levy pikemen: Basically, they are only effective when in pike phalanx formation (and even then, you have to make sure their sides and rear are protected).
When they are out of phalanx formation, they're pretty crappy and will get torn apart by average infantry troops.
Their morale is pretty low so they will break very quickly if things get a bit hairy.
Also, when in phalanx formation they move pretty slow, so it limits your tactical flexibility.
But when everything is done correctly, the pike phalanx is super deadly, especially in city battles.


The Battle:
I want to start off by saying, it's not very rewarding to get into big city battles (whether they are sieges or not) early on in the game.
You're just going to end up taking a lot of losses. Instead, I prefer to draw the enemy army out into the open field and defeat them away from their city.
After I win, then I march on their city which only has a garrison army left.
If you have a full stack army and they only have a garrison army, you will crush them easily and not even have to really bother with fancy tactics.

The thing about city battles (whether they have walls or not) is that they will sit in the middle of their city.
You will have to go to them. They will not come out to you.
This can be an advantage because you can start the battle from far away.
Usually, in a small town battle, your army will be facing a side of town that has either 1 road leading to the town center or 2 roads.
I generally pick the 2 road approach since there is sometimes the possibility of a flanking maneuver later on in the battle.

Have slingers in front at the farthest possible distance away and start firing away.
If they have slingers too (or archers), then fire at those first since they can fire back. Then, I would start hitting their javelin troops. Then any cavalry that might be present.
It's kind of a waste of ammo to shoot at heavy infantry because of their heavy armor and shields. Better to kill off a lot of their support troops rather than just a few of their heavy troops.
Also, killing a lot of guys on the field will create morale penalties for the other units around them.
The way the AI plays most of the time in city battles, they'll just sit there and take the beating while you fire at them.
But have your infantry right behind your range troops just in case they try something.
When you're out of ammo, just send your slingers to the back and out of the way. You probably won't use them again for the rest of the battle.

Once your ammo is totally spent, send in the infantry.
If you are approaching via 2 roads, then split your infantry into 2 groups.
Have your levy pikemen in the center with hoplites at the sides. Do the same for the other group.
Make sure your levy pikemen are in a deep formation resembling a square or a chubby rectangle.
It's a big mistake to use any pike unit in a long, skinny line. Your line will be broken easily that way.
Nice, dense, deep formations make the most effective phalanxes. They hold the line much, much better.
With pikemen in proper depth, you'll be able to spread 2 or 3 units across to almost cover the width of 1 entire road.
When your troops get close, put your pikemen into phalanx formation, and keep them right next to each other, no gaps in between.
I usually don't click attack with pike formations. Instead, I pretend as if they're going to keep marching right past the enemy and use the move command instead.
Even though you didn't click attack, they will automatically engage when they meet the enemy.
The reason why you don't want to click attack is because each pikemen unit will then turn to face the enemy you clicked attack on,
and having a bunch of pike units facing different directions at funny angles will ruin your line.
You want your line straight as possible. Pikemen, while they can be very deadly, require a lot of micromanagement to get the most out of them.
Let your pikemen engage the enemy first, THEN send in your hoplites at the sides, and maybe keep one held back in case a gap appears in your line.
The reason why is you want the pikes to establish the line, and then your hoplites (in regular formation) will act as your support melee infantry at the flanks.
If you do the opposite and send in hoplites before pikes, then your hoplites will crowd out your pikes and then a lot of your pikes won't even be hitting the enemy and be wasted.
Let the pikes do most of the work.

Keep your general right behind the line. Troops fighting near the general fight better. If your generals has special abilities don't forget to use them.
The ones I use the most are Second Wind (removes fatigue from a unit), Inspire (buffs fighting ability and morale), and War Cry (morale debuff for enemy).
Using Inspire and War Cry in tandem (Inspire for your unit and War Cry for the enemy that your unit is fighting) is particularly effective.
I see that a lot of people here like to stack a single general stat (Authority/Cunning/Zeal), and I do that to some extent too,
but I like to at least have the 1st special ability of each category.

Pike battles are kind of slow, but if you did everything right, you'll just need to wait a bit.
Eventually, the enemy will lose morale and start to run away like a bunch of 5 year old girls.
Take all units out of phalanx formation and just chase them down and slaughter them.
Congratulations. The city is now yours.

Conclusion:
Using pike phalanxes take a bit of practice, but they can be great troops.
After all, Alexander used them to build one of the largest empires in world history.

I just have to say I disagree with the guy who says to use Hellas as your military province.
I disagree. I prefer Thracia as my military province.
Why? Because it's a 4 city province unlike Macedonia and Hellas.
With 4 cities, you have enough free slots to put all your military buildings and military buffing buildings (like Temple of Ares) in one province.
I don't know if this was changed in the latest patch or not, but multiple Temples of Ares' effects stack with each other, (and with 4 of them in 1 province, you can get a nice, big fat bonus)
so I just build only Temples of Ares in Thracia, along with my infantry building, armorsmith, blacksmith, horse farm, etc.
Remember, only the province capital can have Culture buildings (the yellow ones) and they're pretty useful, so leave space for them.
Some people here like to split up their military buildings into 2 adjacent provinces (ex: recruiting troops in 1 province and sending them to the other for armor/weapon bonuses).
I like to keep things simple so I don't do that. It's up to you.

I use Macedonia as a food producing region and Hellas as a money making region.

If you followed this guide, then you now control 3 provinces: Macedonia, Hellas and Thrace.
With 3 provinces under your total control, the world is now your oyster.
You can now afford to field 2 full stack armies of high quality and you'll probably be a lot stronger than any of your neighbors.
Also, by now a lot of other factions will be willing to trade with you because you are strong.
So make a couple dignitary/spy/hero units and send one west along the Mediterranean until you wrap around and go north towards Britain and Scandinavia,
and send the other one east around the Black Sea and back down to the Mediterranean until you wrap around and head west towards Carthage and eventually, the Pillars of Hercules (the part where Africa almost touches Spain).
You want to cover the coasts first because you can trade by sea.
By this time in my last Macedon game, I recall that roughly 40% of my income came from trade each turn.
That's a lot, so don't neglect trade. It makes a lot of money.
I don't trade with nearby factions because, well, I'm going to kill them soon

Remember to keep your food surplus at 20 or slightly above. Food surplus gives bonuses to city growth and troop replenishment.
The bonuses max out at 20 food surplus, so it's not worth it to have the surplus too high.
City growth is one of the most important things in the game. Growth = more buliding slots = better everything.

That's it for now. Good luck!

[Forward Observer]

removed

[ikyu828]

@Buddha
actually rather than Thracia for military province might as well go for galatia et capadocia
it's better than Thracia because one of it's region has wine
region that has wine, dye or gold once upgraded boost public order
Syria, Italy and Mauretania also has one of those and all of them have 4 regions