Scrap 'Capture the Flag' for siege battles too?

[Dunadd]

It seems like 'Capture the Flag' is a problem not only in the minority of field battles that involve it, but in siege battles too. The attacking AI throws units towards the flag in sieges without taking into account how they will be destroyed by defending units in their way.

Even in the original Rome Total War it also never made sense to me that defending units couldn't escape by leaving from a map edge, but were destroyed even if they did so. Could that be modded/patched too, so it was possible for units to escape from a city that was being assaulted?

[Humble Warrior]

It seems like 'Capture the Flag' is a problem not only in the minority of field battles that involve it, but in siege battles too. The attacking AI throws units towards the flag in sieges without taking into account how they will be destroyed by defending units in their way.

Even in the original Rome Total War it also never made sense to me that defending units couldn't escape by leaving from a map edge, but were destroyed even if they did so. Could that be modded/patched too, so it was possible for units to escape from a city that was being assaulted?

This would go 50% of the way of fixing sieges, however, how they use siege engines and get on the wall (without forgetting what they were doing) would still need to be fixed. Once they get over the wall, just let the siege AI go into field battle mode and attack any remaining defenders.

It`s CA insistence on keeping those Flags which is part of the broken siege AI that is causing them massive problems.

[wulfgar610]

It`s CA insistence on keeping those Flags which is part of the broken siege AI that is causing them massive problems.

No it isn't! That's just your invention, because you need things to complain about.

[Jofoblie]

I think flags in siege battles make a lot more sense. They offer a focal point, and stop the defenders from just giving the attackers the old runaround. The fault is not with the mechanic itself per sé, but with the AI that prioritizes it before removing the obstacles in the way.

[Bobz]

What would you replace it with? Just having a fight to the last man instead?

[Humble Warrior]

What would you replace it with? Just having a fight to the last man instead?

What do you want a working siege or not?

You prefer the AI standing still outside your walls until the Timer runs out? THINK.

At least this way, you get a fight for the city and are a lot more realistic to boot.

[Bobz]

What do you want a working siege or not?

You prefer the AI standing still outside your walls until the Timer runs out? THINK.

At least this way, you get a fight for the city and are a lot more realistic to boot.

Thank you for the attitude when I was simply inquiring what Dunadd's proposal was.


The issue isn't the flags per se, but current problems with the siege AI. There is no guarantee the AI will perform any better if it had to chase the units all around the map, and the issue with people gaming the system to avoid defeat in multiplayer shouldn't be forgotten.

[|Sith|Galvanized Iron]

Bad proposal, what would the logical alternative be? A manhunt through every single street? Siege battles have always been boring, at least the flags give you the option of ending them quickly. Also if it was about killing the last enemy it could easily be exploited by simply running your cavalry around the map until the timer expired.

[Dunadd]

Bad proposal, what would the logical alternative be? A manhunt through every single street? Siege battles have always been boring, at least the flags give you the option of ending them quickly. Also if it was about killing the last enemy it could easily be exploited by simply running your cavalry around the map until the timer expired.

yeah, you could be right there. I always turned the time limit for battles of in the original Rome, but if Rome II is going to include multiplayer campaigns (?) then i suppose that wouldn't be an option really. The Rome I siege AI was considerably more effective than the Rome II AI is - i think maybe because all armies could build siege towers and rams in it from the start so they'd included AI for using them from the beginning? don't know

[krisslanza]

Bad proposal, what would the logical alternative be? A manhunt through every single street? Siege battles have always been boring, at least the flags give you the option of ending them quickly. Also if it was about killing the last enemy it could easily be exploited by simply running your cavalry around the map until the timer expired.

This is pretty much like flags exist in siege battles. It prevents the defender from using cheese tactics to run out the timer, or if the game is set to unlimited, to just doing a game of cat and mouse until the attacker gives up in frustration.

Same for land/navy battles with the defender having a navy - if there was no flag, they should just leave their ships in the water and run the timer down.

Total War is a game first. It's supposed to be fun, not an annoyance.

[Fallen Phalangite]

Bad proposal, what would the logical alternative be? A manhunt through every single street?

Yes.

[|Sith|Galvanized Iron]

I do however think that attacks on minor settlements should be actual field battles with the settlement in the background as we were promised from the start. But with a capture flag present as it would otherwise be too tempting to cheese out when there is a whole settlement at stake.

[♠ Thomas Cochrane ♠]

I would like to see ALL flags need to be captured to take the city. This way you would actually fight all the way to the citadel sometimes. I never go up there, as the defenders are all dead by the time I get there. CA was trying to stop the AI and player from camping the citadels, but this is exactly what would have happened IRL.

[✠Ikaroqx✠]

What happened to their claim that cities like Carthage would have multiple capture points, where you have to capture parts of the city, rather than just the centre to win? Has that been implemented at all?

[krisslanza]

What happened to their claim that cities like Carthage would have multiple capture points, where you have to capture parts of the city, rather than just the centre to win? Has that been implemented at all?

This is already in place. What they meant was rather then every city having a single "Plaza" capture point, larger settlements have 3 capture points. You have to hold at least 2 of the 3 to start ticking down to victory.

I'm not sure if you can have more then 3 - I haven't finished a campaign still to see the capture points of a Level IV city.

[wulfgar610]

It seems like 'Capture the Flag' is a problem not only in the minority of field battles that involve it, but in siege battles too. The attacking AI throws units towards the flag in sieges without taking into account how they will be destroyed by defending units in their way.

I think this ones a myth. From what I've seen the AI only takes a great interest in the flag when you position troops there. I've seen two stack AI occupy the city without going near the flag.

[✠Ikaroqx✠]

Total War has always had flags in siege battles, it gives the defenders something to defend and the symbolises the attacker taking the city. Flags should remain in siege battles, the AI has coped (more of less) with them before.

[Jonoleth Irenicus]

Whatever CA does, it better be good.

In the previous titles, Sieges had one central point that the AI would attack towards, i.e. : the town centre and that is where you would make your final stand, to the last man.

It worked very well.

Presently replaying MTW 2 and the AI has no problems using Siege equipment or heavy weapons to batter down defences, it then advances into the centre of town and the final fight ensues.

It may not be highly sophisticated, but it works, and to be honest right now with RTW 2 I would settle for "it works", but to date the Siege AI continues to be a major issue that has yet to be resolved.

No intention of resuming play while this state of affairs persists.

[Takizama]

Whatever CA does, it better be good.

In the previous titles, Sieges had one central point that the AI would attack towards, i.e. : the town centre and that is where you would make your final stand, to the last man.

It worked very well.

Presently replaying MTW 2 and the AI has no problems using Siege equipment or heavy weapons to batter down defences, it then advances into the centre of town and the final fight ensues.

It may not be highly sophisticated, but it works, and to be honest right now with RTW 2 I would settle for "it works", but to date the Siege AI continues to be a major issue that has yet to be resolved.

No intention of resuming play while this state of affairs persists.

CA doesnt see your post, better email them. Boycotting wont help, assist on fixing the problems. Get hired by Ca or learn to mod the game or do some modding to help fix it.

[Jonoleth Irenicus]

CA doesnt see your post, better email them. Boycotting wont help, assist on fixing the problems. Get hired by Ca or learn to mod the game or do some modding to help fix it.

I know, posting in an Internet Forum to complain about a game has about as much effect and use as ... well use your own best analogy for something utterly pointless. Learned that when MOO3 was published.It does, however, provide the occasional opportunity for levity, and passing the time while RS 2 downloads.