Starving, small AI factions - mid and late game a waste of time - and ideas to aid AI faction growth

[karge068]

For me the above issues are the main problems with Rome Two.

Mid to late game I would love to face at least one faction with more than 5-6 cities, that isn't starving. A bonus would be if the major factions weren't wiped off the map pretty much every game (Greek States excepted)

it would also be great if at the start of a campaign there was a "activate major faction buff" option that helped the major factions chances of staying in a powerful position - maybe by increasing income or unit quality?

If barbarians made confederations more often that would definitely help, is this an option

Failing this, may a few counterfactional scenarios or different start ups, say starting a map with some of the major factions already having absorbed nearby minor factions, so as to be more of a challenge

With these improvements the game would be so much more enjoyable imho, its frustrating getting to mid campaign and suddenly realising there will be no further challenge coming

these issues don't seem to be getting commented on much so Im keen to see what others think and hopefully get CA's attention

[krisslanza]

I don't think major factions need some kind of "buff", some of the most interesting parts of the "Everything is a faction" thing is it leads to really crazy situations.
However, the CAI does really need some tweaking with how it builds and how it expands. The AI seems far too cautious and willing to sit around and turtle. Plus its build orders, as someone has pointed out to me, are static - it does not build its cities in according to what it needs, but to a set plan. This results in the common starvation/rebellion issues because the AI loses a city that was helping keep those in check, and it won't change its cities to adapt.

[karge068]

I don't think major factions need some kind of "buff", some of the most interesting parts of the "Everything is a faction" thing is it leads to really crazy situations.
However, the CAI does really need some tweaking with how it builds and how it expands. The AI seems far too cautious and willing to sit around and turtle. Plus its build orders, as someone has pointed out to me, are static - it does not build its cities in according to what it needs, but to a set plan. This results in the common starvation/rebellion issues because the AI loses a city that was helping keep those in check, and it won't change its cities to adapt.

I agree some people love the random "what if" element to total war games and love random minor factions becoming major. However there do seem to be a few who want the major factions to be just that, major. Hence it would be nice to toggle a major faction buff on or off at the start of a campaign

[krisslanza]

I agree some people love the random "what if" element to total war games and love random minor factions becoming major. However there do seem to be a few who want the major factions to be just that, major. Hence it would be nice to toggle a major faction buff on or off at the start of a campaign

Honestly that's the kind of thing modders are around for. They can make the little tweaks like that - and as someone has said, seems some already have!
Personally giving Carthage all of Libya and Nova Carthago just sounds like it makes them WAY too large and powerful, but...

[karge068]

Honestly that's the kind of thing modders are around for. They can make the little tweaks like that - and as someone has said, seems some already have!
Personally giving Carthage all of Libya and Nova Carthago just sounds like it makes them WAY too large and powerful, but...

Sounds good, will keep my eyes peeled for mods

[dturtle1]

I don't think major factions need some kind of "buff", some of the most interesting parts of the "Everything is a faction" thing is it leads to really crazy situations.
However, the CAI does really need some tweaking with how it builds and how it expands. The AI seems far too cautious and willing to sit around and turtle. Plus its build orders, as someone has pointed out to me, are static - it does not build its cities in according to what it needs, but to a set plan. This results in the common starvation/rebellion issues because the AI loses a city that was helping keep those in check, and it won't change its cities to adapt.

This, less on the turtling more on the inability to adapt its build queues. I just did a quick check through my current campaign saves, not one of the A.I had destroyed/rebuilt or even flipped(curious, i had hoped it would least do that, i use it a lot to re balance. I figured it was put in to help the AI, god knows the player has got enough tools to tweak/micromanage) between the same archetype.

[Jihada]

Look on the Steam Works pages. There's plenty of mods now to help with food and reducing minors' importance. They improve the game a lot. There's also a mod that gives Carthage Libya and Nova Carthago at start.

[karge068]

Look on the Steam Works pages. There's plenty of mods now to help with food and reducing minors' importance. They improve the game a lot. There's also a mod that gives Carthage Libya and Nova Carthago at start.

Thats awesome thanks. Now if only someone would make an Egypt mod and a "barbarians love to confederate" mod....

[Jihada]

The original mod for Carthage was either Libya or N. Carthago or both but on SW it's now both at start added to Carthage. It doesn't make things easier on higher levels however as Carthage has the same money and only a couple small armies extra to defend a much larger area.

[krisslanza]

The original mod for Carthage was either Libya or N. Carthago or both but on SW it's now both at start added to Carthage. It doesn't make things easier on higher levels however as Carthage has the same money and only a couple small armies extra to defend a much larger area.

Ah, I see. Yeah that would make it slightly more fair... though it still gives Carthage a pretty good advantage. Carthage starts with 4 settlements normally, I think? And Nova Carthago and Libya... I'm not actually sure there.

[Dresden]

If you want a different version of the Carthage mod, I just uploaded an optional version that just gives Libya to Carthage: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?623393

Just to warn you, currently other factions don't have chapter objectives. It is a byproduct of the way the mod is made (currently switching starting regions is an extremely long and complicated process).


Also, if you want a simple AI food fix I have this mod: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?624571

It simply gives the AI a food bonus based on difficulty level. You shouldn't see factions starving unless they have no cities left.

[wulfgar610]

They need plagues to cut their population fast? Epidemics and bad nutrition went hand in hand in ancient times. Years of bumper harvests would see population swell, only to be cut down by the immune deficiency arising from slow starvation. In the modern affluent world we don't experience this anymore. The Roman Empire may suffered from over population by 200 AD, with the price of grain outpacing labor wages. Another factor in the many factors that contributed to Romes decline.
Modern estimates claim Switzerland could only hold about 200k with the Agriculture of time with the living standards we might find agreeable. But the Helvetian migration saw a recorded 350k leaves Switzerland for fresh pastures.

[Jonoleth Irenicus]

They need plagues to cut their population fast? Epidemics and bad nutrition went hand in hand in ancient times. Years of bumper harvests would see population swell, only to be cut down by the immune deficiency arising from slow starvation. In the modern affluent world we don't experience this anymore. The Roman Empire may suffered from over population by 200 AD, with the price of grain outpacing labor wages. Another factor in the many factors that contributed to Romes decline.
Modern estimates claim Switzerland could only hold about 200k with the Agriculture of time with the living standards we might find agreeable. But the Helvetian migration saw a recorded 350k leaves Switzerland for fresh pastures.

Indeed the history of the Roman Empire can in many ways be viewed as a continuing quest for land and grain.

Once it's borders maxed out, decline was inevitable.

[AusHaching]

IIRC it went like this: In 1.0 and 1.1, minor factions would do nothing but camp. Under patches 2 and 3, minor factions would sometimes go on rampages and leave their home region completely undefended. With patch 4 and 5, we are back to 1.0.

In my last campaigns, minors with 1 region would all build 3 Stacks, fill them completely with tier 1 units and camp. In fact, factions with more than 1 region are easier to conquer, as they spread their armies out somewhat.

It isn´t that the game is much harder for that. If you have ten or more regions and six full stacks of mid to elite units, you will trample 3 crap Stacks and the garrison army without loosing a single unit. But it makes the game tedious, as you have to grind armies of levy spearmen and novice slingers time and again.

True wars against rival factions are so rare that they might as well be considered a myth. Except if you play as Egypt and the three nubian faction unite against you, then you are done for.

[peoplescavalry]

There does to be some sort of X factor going on here as I am playing Vanilla patch 5 VH and the A.I. Is both aggressive and upgrading its troops. not complaining though,makes the game worth playing.

[Used2BRoz]

Might the problem be down to having too many factions in the game ?
Perhaps the game would be improved by having just one faction per province to start with ?
If a province has 4 settlements perhaps 1 or 2 could start as rebels - to give the AI factions something to attack without going to war with other factions from the start ?
There would have to be other improvements to encourage the AI to build better units - such as -
removing negative bonuses for buildings;
allowing upgrades to buildings to occur that don't require demolition of existing buildings due to culture changes;
reducing range of religious buildings;
increasing the number of building slots per settlement;
greater income from trade to promote trade relationships
greater income for slaves so they rebuild settlements they capture

fewer factions should also mean shorter time between turns.

[krisslanza]

Might the problem be down to having too many factions in the game ?
Perhaps the game would be improved by having just one faction per province to start with ?
If a province has 4 settlements perhaps 1 or 2 could start as rebels - to give the AI factions something to attack without going to war with other factions from the start ?
There would have to be other improvements to encourage the AI to build better units - such as -
removing negative bonuses for buildings;
allowing upgrades to buildings to occur that don't require demolition of existing buildings due to culture changes;
reducing range of religious buildings;
increasing the number of building slots per settlement;
greater income from trade to promote trade relationships
greater income for slaves so they rebuild settlements they capture

fewer factions should also mean shorter time between turns.

The Squalor on higher level buildings has already been significantly reduced. The CAI just has to be changed to be able to adapt to changes in its build order.
Also Total War has gotten rid of the concept of the world being ruled by Rebels until the game starts, in the hope to make the campaign more interesting, rather then it always being dominated by the major powers.

[Used2BRoz]

I'm playing Patch 5 and there are still level 4 buildings with -10 public order (squalor)
CA are unlikely to change the CAI algorithms until the next expansion - to do so might mess up too many other things.
It's a lot easier to change and test existing variables than to re-write the CAI.
I didn't say anything about about a world ruled by rebels - only the possibility that some provinces might start with 1/2 settlements under rebel control.
As it is during games its not uncommon to see rebels (ie minor factions) controlling several settlements, why not start that way ?
I've had a look at mods and there are some moving in the direction I mentioned, but I'm not installing any mods until CA has finished releasing patches.

[fws2468]

I don't see the need for buffing AI factions up in terms of money unless it's to differentiate between difficulty levels. I also do not see most minor factions starving in the late game and some even expand up to 4 or 5 settlements. Playing Rome late game, I am obviously too powerful for them but even then, the patch refining of the agent system allows the AI to slow down my expansion through sabotage and assasinations. More alliances of small factions as protection against major factions would also be nice. In fact, with each AI faction agent spamming, imagine the number of agents deployed against my empire from the alliance of small factions! The bigger issue is the need to improve AI behavior. Like not standing around doing nothing in a siege battle while its units get shot to pieces by my onagers, and more intelligent AI campaign map behavior where the AI will not abandon its capital in exchange for conquering a useless small island just because it's undefended.

[karge068]

I don't see the need for buffing AI factions up in terms of money unless it's to differentiate between difficulty levels. I also do not see most minor factions starving in the late game and some even expand up to 4 or 5 settlements. Playing Rome late game, I am obviously too powerful for them but even then, the patch refining of the agent system allows the AI to slow down my expansion through sabotage and assasinations. More alliances of small factions as protection against major factions would also be nice. In fact, with each AI faction agent spamming, imagine the number of agents deployed against my empire from the alliance of small factions! The bigger issue is the need to improve AI behavior. Like not standing around doing nothing in a siege battle while its units get shot to pieces by my onagers, and more intelligent AI campaign map behavior where the AI will not abandon its capital in exchange for conquering a useless small island just because it's undefended.

4 or 5 settlements? dont you think that is way too easy? Wouldnt it be awesome to fight a united Gaul? Or Germania? Or an expanded Egyptian Empire? It would make the late game interesting in my opinion, versus just steamrolling small factions. Just my opinion.