"Imperium" trait

[Legatus Legionarii]

I noticed that a few characters - mostly Generals in the field - get the "Imperium" trait, handed over to them by the Senate (means they have full authority in their field of command, be it assigned as a military commander or governor of a province, if I remember well...) First, I would like to understand, when a character receives this trait. Is it automatically, when I put him in the field with troops or does it depend on his rank within the cursus honorum?

And second, if a General stays longer in the field and in command of an army, he receives the trait "Imperium +1", for example, and that the Senate is becoming suspicious about that General and that he has to give up the Imperium. May second question is, what are the consequences - if any - if he simply stays in command and thus ignores the Senate's concerns?

Thanks in advance for your reply!

[Aismov]

I noticed that a few characters - mostly Generals in the field - get the "Imperium" trait, handed over to them by the Senate (means they have full authority in their field of command, be it assigned as a military commander or governor of a province, if I remember well...) First, I would like to understand, when a character receives this trait. Is it automatically, when I put him in the field with troops or does it depend on his rank within the cursus honorum?

And second, if a General stays longer in the field and in command of an army, he receives the trait "Imperium +1", for example, and that the Senate is becoming suspicious about that General and that he has to give up the Imperium. May second question is, what are the consequences - if any - if he simply stays in command and thus ignores the Senate's concerns?

Thanks in advance for your reply!

It causes decreased loyalty the longer they stay in the field. Although this has never happened to me, but they could in theory rebel. That is why I have only family members command my legions. I don't trust the rent-a-generals

[CatoTheYounger]

I like the imperium but in territory with no cities to duck back into you have to capure a city to reset your imperium or head to the closest city. On far away campaigns i take a selection of leaders as some will need to ocassionaly hold you over until your top leader resets his imperium. Returning to cities with or without you army resets it. Then you canhead out again.

It would be a terror to have your ten star general get big ideas and stay in the field with his army despite being asked to check back in with the senate. We all remember what Julius Caesar did.

Historicly the Romans have their rules and laws but they did not always enforce them. Scipio Africanus received imperium for an extended time and even became Consol at 30 which was against their own rules. Seems all laws and rules were negotiable. But when they told you you had to return or relinquish power they were dead serious. They gave Consuls complete power and authority for a year to do as they pleased but there was a catch....When their time as Consul expired they could retroactively throw charges at the Consul for using his power in ways they did not aprove of. So a Consol had complete power(with the other Consul being able to Veto him however) but when your time was up you might get in trouble for things you had the power to do and did but should not have. Didn't often happen though. and the funny thing is somebody had to be bold enough to challenge the former Consul on the laws and risk a powerfull politcal enemy. Pompey was able to wage illegal wars he was not give the area of responsibility against yet nobody stood up to him and looked the other way because he brought in fabuloous riches from his conquest.

This game does a realy good job with the politcal situation overall.

[Legatus Legionarii]

Thanks for the replies... So, simply, entering and leaving a city (either by conquest or a friendly one) resets it... Thanks to the devs as well for this really interesting trait. Gives the player also a chance for some role playing...

[Aismov]

Thanks for the replies... So, simply, entering and leaving a city (either by conquest or a friendly one) resets it... Thanks to the devs as well for this really interesting trait. Gives the player also a chance for some role playing...

Yes, but you have to keep them in the city for one full turn to get a reset. The price you pay is the first turn after they have a 50% movement penalty, but then its back to normal.

[CatoTheYounger]

And you can leave them out for some time after the Senate is cautioning you. Plenty of turns. just be carefull.

[Aismov]

And you can leave them out for some time after the Senate is cautioning you. Plenty of turns. just be carefull.

Have you ever had a FM that was at max loyalty rebel on you? How many turns did it take?

[Crymson]

Have you ever had a FM that was at max loyalty rebel on you? How many turns did it take?

The game doesn't allow this. It considers the FM a manifestation of the player; were he to rebel, it would be as if the player were self-rebelling.

[CatoTheYounger]

Wow.Faction leader rebelling. That would be interesting. I havent had one turn on me becuase i generaly follow the senates orders and reset my imperium in a timely fashion. I also always send a newly elected Consul to an army and allow proconsuls to command in the field as well. Only in far away places like spain do i go alow genrals to command through imperium alone. I have the entire Scipio family in spain organizing the war there. Would be interesting if one of them took all of spain with them and rebelled against rome.

[High Fist]

I have the entire Scipio family in spain organizing the war there. Would be interesting if one of them took all of spain with them and rebelled against rome.

That would be cool as .

[High Fist]

Don't you mean the faction leader? Cause he's on about the run-of-the-mill family member.

[Aismov]

Don't you mean the faction leader? Cause he's on about the run-of-the-mill family member.

Correct, I don't mean faction leader, I meant family member (FM). Faction leader would be a bit, heh, crazy

[High Fist]

Right, well I don't think a max loyalty general can rebel at all.

Does the Imperium trait go away after one of the reforms? Generals were more professional then,weren't they?

[ur-Lord Tedric]

.............. Generals were more professional then,weren't they?

Like Varus?

Or Vitellius?

To name just a couple.....

[Crymson]

Like Varus?

Or Vitellius?

To name just a couple.....

He meant that they were career officers.

[ur-Lord Tedric]

He meant that they were career officers.

But they weren't - the Patrician class (who commanded the legions & armies) had military service as a stepping stone to their full-time civilian career. It was only some of the Equestrians (and those Plebeians who joined and made something of themselves) who made a military career their own.

During our time period, and only towards the end, Praefecti Legionis (the highest Equestrian military office) served to command the two legions in Egypt, only because the Emperor couldn't entrust the major corn supply to any Patrician. Later, after our period, legions were commonly commanded by such men - but not in our period.

[High Fist]

As in full time generals. I ask because of this:

The differences between units ranging from the so-called 'Polybian Legions' to the later 'Imperial Legions' was not just a matter of training, nor weapons, nor armor. They were also a matter of tactical progression and hardened military doctrine. Legion Generals became 'Legion Generals', not civilian Senators and Consuls who were gifted with command because of reputation, wealth, or a vote. Military tactics and the ways to handle an army were written down and taught, and the experiences of other Generals added to the 'database' of information that constantly allowed the Roman military to learn, adapt and borrow weapons or tactics. This, IMHO, is why the Legions should in some small way be better as they progress..

Plus, t'was an empire then. Did the emperors still grant generals imperium?

[tungri_centurio]

i noticed that when the general is not patrician he is given no imperium trait,so they can campaign without going into citys.

[ur-Lord Tedric]

i noticed that when the general is not patrician he is given no imperium trait,so they can campaign without going into citys.

Was this not fixed before release?

[tungri_centurio]

@tedric, i have 2 equestrian generals that dont have imperium trait, my 3 patrician generals al have imperium year 4.all of them are now 4 years in the field