Rome 2 is good that it doesn't force me to reform, so i can keep my triariis

[chrono672]

I hate to lose my best spearmen back in rome1, they are better than the normal hoplites with ridiculous armor.

[Humble Warrior]

I liked how the reform was in RTW 1 because it didn`t always happen exactly when you`d expect.

I believe if CA were really smart they`s make reforms come but allow the PLAYER the option on whether to allow the reforms, deny them or delay them. This would be realistic too as, at the end of the day the leader would ultimately decide whether to allow Marius` idea to go ahead or not.

Options- can`t fail.

[Rittsy]

Options- can`t fail.

They kinda did that, didn't they? You can delay the research, stagger the research or ignore the reform entirely.

[karamazovmm]

your choice before was to not have a 24k pop city in italy, if you reached that, next turn would be reforms.

not to mention you lost the ability to replenish your armies

[EternalSilence]

Or you just could make a lot of Triarii before the reforms begin. Station them in 3 - 4 armies and distribute them after te reforms to the other armies.
do not update every barrack.

[chris10]

I liked how the reform was in RTW 1 because it didn`t always happen exactly when you`d expect.

your choice before was to not have a 24k pop city in italy, if you reached that, next turn would be reforms.

Actually you are both not correct.
The reform in RTW was entirely predictable and manageable by the player if you knew the mechanic behind it
and it was not having a 24k city in Italy only...
the reform event trigger was tied to the imperial palace build in Italy..of course you could only build it once you reached 24k population but you could always opt
to not build the palace so you wouldnt get the reform

[karamazovmm]

Actually you are both not correct.
The reform in RTW was entirely predictable and manageable by the player if you knew the mechanic behind it
and it was not having a 24k city in Italy only...
the reform event trigger was tied to the imperial palace build in Italy..of course you could only build it once you reached 24k population but you could always opt
to not build the palace so you wouldnt get the reform

you are correct it was tied to the imperial palace, cant believe I forgot that

[Humble Warrior]

Actually you are both not correct.
The reform in RTW was entirely predictable and manageable by the player if you knew the mechanic behind it
and it was not having a 24k city in Italy only...
the reform event trigger was tied to the imperial palace build in Italy..of course you could only build it once you reached 24k population but you could always opt
to not build the palace so you wouldnt get the reform

All these years and I never cottoned on to that! I just thought it was random to within a period.

But then, when I`m happy with a game I tend not to get too into the intricacies and just play.

[AngryTitusPullo]

All these years and I never cottoned on to that! I just thought it was random to within a period.

But then, when I`m happy with a game I tend not to get too into the intricacies and just play.

Actually you are not quite wrong. While as someone said you could hold of reform on your part, if you're playing vanilla and your fellow roman factions achieved that condition then you'll get the reform message too. What you think is random is maybe when your playing Julii, the Scipii manage to take Carthage which already have near huge cities.

The hidden resource Italy that triggered the event is not only located in Italian cities. Can't exactly remember though since I haven't touch vanilla RTW files for quite some time.

On-topic : In Rome II when you had the reform, is it true that you can convert your existing units like Triarii to Legionaries ? I haven't played Rome yet but if it's true than this is a very cool feature. Have tried to script this in RTW mods but never successful.

[Kissaki]

Actually you are both not correct.
The reform in RTW was entirely predictable and manageable by the player if you knew the mechanic behind it
and it was not having a 24k city in Italy only...
the reform event trigger was tied to the imperial palace build in Italy..of course you could only build it once you reached 24k population but you could always opt
to not build the palace so you wouldnt get the reform

It was tied to 3, 4 or 5 (can't remember which) imperial palaces in Italy, regardless of which Roman faction, so you couldn't really control it: if the other Roman factions built them, that would set off the reforms as well. And why should I wish to delay upgrading to imperial palace just to delay the reforms? What I did was to edit the building file so that the Marian forms had minimal effect: new troops available but no troops obsolete.

[GnaReffotsirk]

Reforms should also impact things beyond what units we can recruit.

[Rittsy]

It'd be cool if it were tied to Generals rather than research or buildings. I think Europa Barbarorum did something like that...based on settlements held, battles won and generals' traits. I think. I never played it all that much, usually stuck with Rome Total Realism/Imperator II, so please correct me if I'm crazy.

[karamazovmm]

It'd be cool if it were tied to Generals rather than research or buildings. I think Europa Barbarorum did something like that...based on settlements held, battles won and generals' traits. I think. I never played it all that much, usually stuck with Rome Total Realism/Imperator II, so please correct me if I'm crazy.

you are not crazy, one of the roman reforms was tied to this. I dont remember but I think it was the augustus reform or the one before that, or both

the seleucid reform was tied to this as well, if Im not mistaken it was to lose a battle against catas and your general should die as well.

there may be others, but basically it was a pain to get those reforms and the script did bug a lot of times, there were several fixes for it and mods that removed that completely at the end there was a date limit so that you could have those reforms, but it didnt matter much, since you had already finished your game long before the late reforms, specially for the 3rd reform that demanded that you had basically a lot of the map already

[|Sith|Galvanized Iron]

the seleucid reform was tied to this as well, if Im not mistaken it was to lose a battle against catas and your general should die as well.

Another reason why EB sucked. Having a reform based on silly things like losing a battle against the exact right unit is too unintuitive too make for good gameplay.

[karamazovmm]

Yes, EB did have some reforms based around those conditions. In addition, many of the reforms required a certain number of turns/years played, which I found to be unfortunate: if you were the type of player who expanded more quickly than normal and achieved all of the requisites bar time played for a reform well ahead of the required date ... well, that was simply frustrating.

you know EB is the mod I played the most, and you could never ever expand at the same rate as the reforms, specially if you were rome.

the reforms for the romans can be triggered by an end date, and have to be triggered by an initial date, doesnt matter that you have the X number of provinces, and the right ones, you also have to be at the specific date, with the specific character traits

most of the reforms, were basically the standard one of imperial palace in italy, like macedon for example. the rest was

Another reason why EB sucked. Having a reform based on silly things like losing a battle against the exact right unit is too unintuitive too make for good gameplay.

well it isnt that non intuitive, the problem was to actually trigger it, meaning you have to spare that said faction, and they have to have developed to the certain level that allows for catas, and your general has to die and you have to lose that battle, now if you met all the conditions, it may not trigger, it was a common bug in the script

Now while I do enjoy the rtw mods, I dont see how can people not see the improvements, nor how rome 2 actually took the mods as a good example to be

the mods are limited, because the engine was limited

[DaciaJC]

It'd be cool if it were tied to Generals rather than research or buildings. I think Europa Barbarorum did something like that...based on settlements held, battles won and generals' traits. I think. I never played it all that much, usually stuck with Rome Total Realism/Imperator II, so please correct me if I'm crazy.

Yes, EB did have some reforms based around those conditions. In addition, many of the reforms required a certain number of turns/years played, which I found to be unfortunate: if you were the type of player who expanded more quickly than normal and achieved all of the requisites bar time played for a reform well ahead of the required date ... well, that was simply frustrating.

[Rittsy]

Thanks for the confirmation, nice to know I didn't just dream that. Mmm, maybe research is just an outright simpler way to do it for the base-game. It will be cool to see what modders do with it if they get the chance.

[Uncle Jugashvili]

It would be nice if the reforms had deeper consequences and implied a significant choice for the player -- getting better troops but empowering rogue generals and sowing the seeds of the destruction of the Republican form of government, or keeping an inferior citizen army but maintaining the power of the Senate and People of Rome.

Also, it would be nice if the reforms emerged from a blend of the right conditions and a national shock -- the Marian Reforms were largely sparked by the defeats at Noreia and Arausio against the Cimbri and Teutones combined with the war against Numidia -- instead of simply researching tech.

[Buddha]

Triarii are nice, but a full stack of late game legionaries are pretty much unstoppable. You don't even really need to employ tactics. I just send them to auto-attack and then go make a sandwich. Triarii are kinda obsolete by then.

[Crymson]

I hate to lose my best spearmen back in rome1, they are better than the normal hoplites with ridiculous armor.

The reforms in RTW reflected the radical military transformation that transpired in the Republic as the result of severe socioeconomic problems. R2TW removes this neat feature by absurdly making the reforms dependent upon research.

As far as triarii went, the Marian and Imperial armies did very well without them, as did the average player in RTW.