why is it?

[Hawkeye74]

I am barred from knowing who is trading with who?
I am barred from knowing the progress of other factions against my own?
I can in no be way secretive about the money I give to factions?
I cannot setup regular tribute to factions?
My generals die off within seven or eight turns?
that it takes 10 years to sail from Portugal to Italy?
That I cannot know how many people there are in a settlement?
That if my army is sitting in an enemy region and raiding it does not cause devastation or effect any aspect of the region?
That all of the assets of a region are situated in the town? From a historical point of view this is stupido, Ca got it right in previous titles, but have taken a step back...the real question is why.



I see a lot of people on here harping on about those who are complaining about the quality of the release, and I address this to those who are happy with Rome 2 as it stands.

This is much like the original Star Wars and the recent movies....you can tell a fan of these movies because they hate George Lucas, in principle it's the same kind of thing. I would also say, if you've never played the original Rome, go have a look at it, maybe the graphics aren't what you are used to, but back then even the best software engines weren't that good because of the technology available, but what was available and what made CA titles cutting edge back then was gameplay, and the kind of depth that forgave the 'cutting edge' graphics' that very few could afford and made do with the mid range systems.

Now we got the technology and the fantastic graphics, it may be that pretty pictures is what it's all about these days, and if so then my days as a gamer are numbered, because like most gamers my age that's those in their 30's we grew up with kak visuals and knew a good game when we saw one because it held our attention, not because of the pretty picture but because of the game play.

And I refer to another old title that still has a strong community, that is the Close Combat series, graphics minimal, but gameplay that has until today never been surpassed.

I'm sure this has all be said before, and I'm sure the lovers and the hater with put their oar in, but honestly I'm kinda tired of it too. Rome 2 is a huge disappointment there is no getting away from it, but at the end of the day that is just my opinion, which I am entitled to.

Don't get me wrong I've put the hours in and there is a lot to be said for what CA have done, but Shogun it is not, Rome it is not, Medieval it is not, and only because of the campaign itself, and that is a damn shame. I suppose at some point some of us have to admit to ourselves that 'we' are no longer the demographic, just the % that makes up the 'will buy anyway', whereas the rest of the buying public are.

I would say if this is a portent of things to come, what with the games workshop title in the works doing what's been done here threatens to alienate a wider more fanatical community and drive CA further into the ground in terms of its reputation. After bouncing back like Rocky Balboa from Empire with Shogun 2, is Rome 2 CA's BA Baracas, if so, then there is still hope.

Once we spoke CA's name in breathless whispers, now for the most part all I hear is contempt.

But we all do wish in our heart of hearts, those who care, that with the coming patches we may see a u turn on some of the included features, and the inclusion of some features that have been sadly left out, and again hope that unlike Empire, Rome is not abandoned.

Peace.

[Bethencourt]

I hope they believe it is unfinished and change many things as the ones you have said and more, no just patches to fix bugs. And I hope they really créate a good Rome II because their future depends of it. This is an iconic, using their word for the Iceni faction, game for them, they cannot abandon it so easily. That would be their second great mistake.

[krisslanza]

I am barred from knowing who is trading with who?

If I had to guess, because it's not that important in the grand scheme of things? I recall knowing this in Shogun 2, but it's not really all that important is it?

I am barred from knowing the progress of other factions against my own?

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Do you mean progress to them winning or something? Because the AI can't win - you can just lose.

I can in no be way secretive about the money I give to factions?

Fairly certain this has been the case in every TW. Any diplomatic action you do, the entire world knows. Diplomacy has never been a strong suit, or a focus, of Total War.

I cannot setup regular tribute to factions?

I believe if you are their Client this happens automatically.

My generals die off within seven or eight turns?

They must be getting assassinated or something. Or you have awful luck and your generals are being spawned in their 60's or something. Characters seem to start dropping dead of old age in the late 50's, I think. The youngest I've seen is a 14 year old general, I think. It's possible to just have generals spawn in at an old age.

that it takes 10 years to sail from Portugal to Italy?

One turn per year. 300 year long campaign. About the only way to have the game in a reasonable pacing.

That I cannot know how many people there are in a settlement?

because it's not important. Growth is the only value you have to know, and it's an abstract representation of the regions population.

That if my army is sitting in an enemy region and raiding it does not cause devastation or effect any aspect of the region?

Mechanical effects only. Probably removed graphically as it's not really that important. It looks nice, but it also gives away a hidden army because the region looks ruined by their presence even if you cannot actually see the army.

That all of the assets of a region are situated in the town? From a historical point of view this is stupido, Ca got it right in previous titles, but have taken a step back...the real question is why.

The way it looks it's because the main settlement produces those goods. The settlement is assumed built close enough to the resource to work it, rather then assuming they transport it from some other location. Alternatively, the settlements just represent the good they produce, but the materials are not important and thus not shown anywhere. It's assumed they reach the settlement to be turned into proper trade goods.

[Americanus Supremus]

Impressive Krisslanza, you just never quit... Bravo...

Agree with most if not all of what OP says. The game is lacking severally in depth in all areas. A lot features and things that provided depth and immersion value were either left out or stripped out. Things like man power were EXTREMELY important back then due to the basic fact people didn't live long and the population was so small. That though is always dismissed by the arcade crowd as being to mircomanagie. No longer do you need your population to recruit and train units, they come out of nowhere just like the transport boats. Decimation of a region, through over recruitment or sacking which was represented in RTW 1 and ADDED gameplay challenge was left out here in RTW2, for the sake of the adhd arcade crowd who cant manage it. To that I say that is what this series is all about, MANAGING your empire and all that entails. Those like Krisslanza enjoy the fact it has been dumbed down in all facets of the game, enjoy the eye candy and the brain numbing ease of this game. The OP, myself, and the hard core players of this series just cant stand it. I hope and pray the next expansion/game in this series goes back to the TW roots, if not CA (not that they care) will lose another supporter that has been playing since Medieval 1...

[kronpas]

Information presented must be of value somehow, or else they risk cluttering the game's interface. Why do you need to know a town's population where it serves absolutely nothing? It takes like 5 turns with forced march from Portugal to Italy. Army does cause harm to the legion its raiding, but visible devastation effect aint a must. All of region's assets focused in the settlement is for gameplay's sake with the way smaller regions are presented now. Farm raiding has never been fun to me in S2 (no i wanst annoyed by it, merely a 'meh'). etc.The way you insist on old graphical featurse like raiding devastation texture and population number shows that you hasnt got past "Rome I" mindset yet. Rome II failed not just because it was buggy as hell, but its severely lacking in grand-scale immersion (its actually VERY good if you bother to zoom in to watch your boys fighting, but sadly noone does so - including me :\). HOWEVER, immersion !# everything-in-Rome-I-must-be-present-in-Rome-II. A franchise never grows up if it stubbornly sticks to its old agenda.

[kronpas]

On a side note, why the hell I cant format my posts like breaking the line by pressing enter?

[GnaReffotsirk]

Population when in the game, has a lot of potential to make things a little more deep. A faction with one town for example who has a relatively small population, cannot field armies more than levies as a result, will have to submit to your authority or be subjected to slavery.

Just imagine the possibilities. Food surplus, man power, Empire-wide food distribution and costs, taxation, industry, culture effects and affects, public building upkeep, labor force and construction times, farming output, research speed, etc etc.

I'm not asking for an EU or CK2, but somewhere in between. Then add automation options for newbs and people who just want to fight battles.

[Americanus Supremus]

Population when in the game, has a lot of potential to make things a little more deep. A faction with one town for example who has a relatively small population, cannot field armies more than levies as a result, will have to submit to your authority or be subjected to slavery.

Just imagine the possibilities. Food surplus, man power, Empire-wide food distribution and costs, taxation, industry, culture effects and affects, public building upkeep, labor force and construction times, farming output, research speed, etc etc.

I'm not asking for an EU or CK2, but somewhere in between. Then add automation options for newbs and people who just want to fight battles.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Population is already in the game. Both in the db files for use during recruiting. Example being recruit a unit that many people are no longer in your population/recruiting pool as it were.
Funny, the family tree mechanics are all there too. So is a slot for another dignitary type character. A governor agent maybe??? There are more I am sure as I am just a novice when it comes to poking around the db files and the startpos file.

All I want is something that had the depth and immersion of the beginning of the series and the graphics of what we have now. And if I had to choose one over the other I would pick the depth and immersion, because its why we freaking play games to begin with. If I wanted mind numbing easy I would go play checkers or solitaire. Give us back what Total War was, or give us something better than this or its the last title I am buying of the series.

(Mashes Fast March Button) to quickly get to bed. Love me some fantasy magic button pushing before night night....

[Hawkeye74]

It's not a rome mindset, it's the progress that was made, that has been abandoned in this title.

Rome 2 campaign map is dead, or unfinished or whatever you wish to call it. All of the information is necessary in some way or other, if only for immersion's sake.

[krisslanza]

It's not a rome mindset, it's the progress that was made, that has been abandoned in this title.

Rome 2 campaign map is dead, or unfinished or whatever you wish to call it. All of the information is necessary in some way or other, if only for immersion's sake.

I have played Rome I. Most of that stuff is unimportant and not really needed. (You must have changed your post or something, because I quoted something else entirely)

Immersion is nice, but it's not needed to sell the game.

Also making population needed to recruit troops, just means you imbalance the game - those who have huge cities are at a distinct advantage over those with small. It's a gameplay decision to eliminate that (which has been gone from the series ever since Medieval 2, hasn't it?) so that way factions are on a more equal footing. I never did like that population growth much in Rome I, since you just ended up spending your time recruiting peasants and disbanding them elsewhere to buff up cities - and mainly to avoid the inevitable rebellions brought on by squalor unless you could overtax the settlement enough to stop it from growing.

Also not to mention that since population growth was % based, it meant a huge city grew massively every turn which doesn't really feel right - a small settlement takes forever to grow, a huge one will be ready to 'level up' in a fraction of the time due to the percentage based modifier. That doesn't feel all that realistic to me or immersive. You can of course, feel free to disagree, it's just an opinion after all.

[Humble Warrior]

Hawkeye74

Well said, Hawkeye, well said. Exactly how I`ve felt for a while. And this workshop, Steam workshop I presume ? Is possibly going to be the worse thing for the freedom of modding ever.

I`ve had people on the Civ5 website refuse to release their Mods anywhere except in the Steam workshop, because they so want everyone forced into Steam. The Steam workshop I tried once so I knew what it was like - You have to register every Mod. Why? then it sometimes works or sometimes doesn`t. then it vanishes for no reason.

I found someone who didn`t like Steam and did standalone Steam-free Mods and I manually installed them and I`ve had no problems with them vanishing or anything, even when a Steam patch came in unexpectantly.

[krisslanza]

Hawkeye74

Well said, Hawkeye, well said. Exactly how I`ve felt for a while. And this workshop, Steam workshop I presume ? Is possibly going to be the worse thing for the freedom of modding ever.

I`ve had people on the Civ5 website refuse to release their Mods anywhere except in the Steam workshop, because they so want everyone forced into Steam. The Steam workshop I tried once so I knew what it was like - You have to register every Mod. Why? then it sometimes works or sometimes doesn`t. then it vanishes for no reason.

I found someone who didn`t like Steam and did standalone Steam-free Mods and I manually installed them and I`ve had no problems with them vanishing or anything, even when a Steam patch came in unexpectantly.

The Steam Workshop mods are actually rather convenient to install. At least with Shogun 2, a big issue was if your copy was modded, you couldn't really play the MP side of things unless someone had your exact version - so they needed all your mods. And many mods overwrote other files, meaning you could not just go and remove them. The mods installed via the Workshop however, can be disabled and enabled without any problem.

Never had any problems with the mods not showing up once I had subscribed to them however, that may have been a personal problem.

[stackero]

I am barred from knowing who is trading with who?
I am barred from knowing the progress of other factions against my own?
I can in no be way secretive about the money I give to factions?
I cannot setup regular tribute to factions?
My generals die off within seven or eight turns?
that it takes 10 years to sail from Portugal to Italy?
That I cannot know how many people there are in a settlement?
That if my army is sitting in an enemy region and raiding it does not cause devastation or effect any aspect of the region?
That all of the assets of a region are situated in the town? From a historical point of view this is stupido, Ca got it right in previous titles, but have taken a step back...the real question is why.



I see a lot of people on here harping on about those who are complaining about the quality of the release, and I address this to those who are happy with Rome 2 as it stands.

This is much like the original Star Wars and the recent movies....you can tell a fan of these movies because they hate George Lucas, in principle it's the same kind of thing. I would also say, if you've never played the original Rome, go have a look at it, maybe the graphics aren't what you are used to, but back then even the best software engines weren't that good because of the technology available, but what was available and what made CA titles cutting edge back then was gameplay, and the kind of depth that forgave the 'cutting edge' graphics' that very few could afford and made do with the mid range systems.

Now we got the technology and the fantastic graphics, it may be that pretty pictures is what it's all about these days, and if so then my days as a gamer are numbered, because like most gamers my age that's those in their 30's we grew up with kak visuals and knew a good game when we saw one because it held our attention, not because of the pretty picture but because of the game play.

And I refer to another old title that still has a strong community, that is the Close Combat series, graphics minimal, but gameplay that has until today never been surpassed.

I'm sure this has all be said before, and I'm sure the lovers and the hater with put their oar in, but honestly I'm kinda tired of it too. Rome 2 is a huge disappointment there is no getting away from it, but at the end of the day that is just my opinion, which I am entitled to.

Don't get me wrong I've put the hours in and there is a lot to be said for what CA have done, but Shogun it is not, Rome it is not, Medieval it is not, and only because of the campaign itself, and that is a damn shame. I suppose at some point some of us have to admit to ourselves that 'we' are no longer the demographic, just the % that makes up the 'will buy anyway', whereas the rest of the buying public are.

I would say if this is a portent of things to come, what with the games workshop title in the works doing what's been done here threatens to alienate a wider more fanatical community and drive CA further into the ground in terms of its reputation. After bouncing back like Rocky Balboa from Empire with Shogun 2, is Rome 2 CA's BA Baracas, if so, then there is still hope.

Once we spoke CA's name in breathless whispers, now for the most part all I hear is contempt.

But we all do wish in our heart of hearts, those who care, that with the coming patches we may see a u turn on some of the included features, and the inclusion of some features that have been sadly left out, and again hope that unlike Empire, Rome is not abandoned.

Peace.

Good post. rep ya