The Campaigns Addon (for LotRTW v3.0+)

[Halvar von Flake]

Found some easter eggs! Dunlending Uruk spears, Uruk swords, Rohan spears! Very nice! Campaign is very tough! I guess I have to reduce recruiting times for Numenoreans in Fornost...otherwise we are all doomed...!

[CapnDan]

Found some easter eggs! Dunlending Uruk spears, Uruk swords, Rohan spears! Very nice! Campaign is very tough! I guess I have to reduce recruiting times for Numenoreans in Fornost...otherwise we are all doomed...!

The special Dunlending units are actually one of the very many bits of impressive attention to detail in the stock mod. They just didn't tend to turn up very often (all the more impressive that they had been made and added in the first place!),

The Numenor Capaign is challenging for sure. One of the themes I was really going for there was very limited numbers of strong units vs basically impossible odds. The single player Numenor units are kind of OP if you are able to build them quickly, their disadvantage is that they only come from one place and are slow to train. I fully intended that having an army of numenoran units is something you'd not see until the very late campaign (if at all) and by then what you'd be more likely to have is a mixed force consisting of some units from pretty well all the different 'good' peoples of Middle Earth, which fits the story of the heroic final last stand for those people's pretty well too.

I've played a couple of games through to the point of being ready to take on Mordor (takes me about 100 turns or so without cheats) and the fairly severe limits on recruitment tend to force you into needing to rely more on mercs and militias (which is why I buffed slightly num militia units in that new EDU I'd attached earlier). It also means that the units from other factions (elves and dwarves especially) become particularly valuable to the point of being almost essential.

I've also found, for the first time ever in any TW game I've played, a sense of really needing to think on and manage my limited military forces. Collecting and sending off on campaign your limited stronger units (especially at the start), is both very much a do-or-die sort of situation AND one that necessary depletes your homelands of strong defenses (which then requires a bit of care in diplomacy and the strategic side of things) and contributes to the 'race against time' thing that I'd also been aiming for.

So far I'm actually really happy with how it's all turned out. All I really need now is find someone with the skills and software to give the settlements issues a quick (well, hopefully it's quick) once-over and I'd say it's likely the true and final final version will be done.

[CapnDan]

What I mean is that the Silvan Elves look primitive. Altough I think the lotrtw team visualize that they look like primitive elves but it just doesn't fit. I find the movie silvan elves more civilized than in the mod.

I think that's mainly because the LotR-TW mod started waaay back well before The Hobbit movies were even on the drawing board. So, there's a lot in there that's based on either the books, or just plain old individual creativity. The Silvan elves, I'm pretty sure, are based on what they're alluded to being like by the books and the first three movies. Specifically that they're not exactly civilized in the traditional sense of being city dwellers - they are 'forest elves' after all..

[Halvar von Flake]

Wow, you are a strong player, CapnDan!!! I dont' know if I will take on Mordor by turn 100...
My VH/VH Numenorean campaign is very, very, very hard. Turn 53: Gondor destroyed, Rohan and Free peoples only one region left and myriades of Orc rabbles, Trolls and Dunlending hordes roaming the lost realm of Arnor...!
The only ray of hope is Elessar, Elladan and Elrohir marching for Rivendell...!


EDIT: I had a couple of crashes when loading for battle map. I am using the original V2.6 ancillaries.texts (only Anduril and Ring of Barahir modified) wondering if the Numenorean campaign is not so stable running as War of the Ring V2.2...hmm...

EDIT2: Very nice trolls can attack stone walls gates directly!! Carn Dum was taken back by orc rabbles this way...

[CapnDan]

Wow, you are a strong player, CapnDan!!! I dont' know if I will take on Mordor by turn 100...

Well to be fair I have spent what is likely an unholy amount of hours with the game. And to be even more fair, the most I ever play on is H/H - plenty tough enough for old softies like me.

Speaking of taking on Mordor though, it makes for almost a completely different campaign in later game, which I'm also pretty happy with.

My VH/VH Numenorean campaign is very, very, very hard. Turn 53: Gondor destroyed, Rohan and Free peoples only one region left and myriades of Orc rabbles, Trolls and Dunlending hordes roaming the lost realm of Arnor...!

Yup, that happens even on M/M.

EDIT: I had a couple of crashes when loading for battle map. I am using the original V2.6 ancillaries.texts (only Anduril and Ring of Barahir modified) wondering if the Numenorean campaign is not so stable running as War of the Ring V2.2...hmm...

EDIT2: Very nice trolls can attack stone walls gates directly!! Carn Dum was taken back by orc rabbles this way...

As for the crashes, the campaigns sub-mod has been very much a cumulative bit of work that should also be an improvement in stability over all previous versions as well as over the stock LotR-TW mod. It is possible that your edited Anduril may be the source of crashes as there are actually several scripts in the mod based on the anc and who holds it.

[Halvar von Flake]

Well to be fair I have spent what is likely an unholy amount of hours with the game. And to be even more fair, the most I ever play on is H/H - plenty tough enough for old softies like me.

Speaking of taking on Mordor though, it makes for almost a completely different campaign in later game, which I'm also pretty happy with.

I guess you deserve to be pretty happy!! Your modifications made LotR-TW even more thrilling and exciting!!

Yup, that happens even on M/M.

I think I have to fight for Gondor in one of my next campaigns watching the AI Numenoreans with spies...

Idea: The surviving forces of Gondor might go north to fight under Elessar's banner after Gondor's defeat...! This could result in lower recruiting times for Numenorean units or Gondorian militia units could be available in Fornost or something like that...

As for the crashes, the campaigns sub-mod has been very much a cumulative bit of work that should also be an improvement in stability over all previous versions as well as over the stock LotR-TW mod. It is possible that your edited Anduril may be the source of crashes as there are actually several scripts in the mod based on the anc and who holds it.

Do more ancillary scripts exist than "export_ancillaries1.txt", "export_ancillaries.txt", "export_descr_ancillaries.txt"??

REPORT: Legendary death of Elessar!!! Elessar was killed by an orcish arrow 5 seconds before victory at Rivendell!!!!! "History became legend. Legend became myth. And for two and a half thousand years, the flame of the west passed out of all knowledge..."


(Only Elladan and Elrohir badly wounded at the Battle of Rivendell knew about...)

[CapnDan]

I guess you deserve to be pretty happy!! Your modifications made LotR-TW even more thrilling and exciting!!

Thanks!

I think I have to fight for Gondor in one of my next campaigns watching the AI Numenoreans with spies...

Idea: The surviving forces of Gondor might go north to fight under Elessar's banner after Gondor's defeat...! This could result in lower recruiting times for Numenorean units or Gondorian militia units could be available in Fornost or something like that...

AI Numenor doesn't do much (that you can see ) other than just survive for 60-80 turns or so. But, the Gondor campaign is definitely something special all to itself. Both the Gondor and Rohan campaigns are very 'last stand'-y and have significantly altered victory conditions and scripting from the original base mod. Plenty of epic defending needed in both of those. Mordor actually managed to take Minas Tirith from me fair and square this one time.

Do more ancillary scripts exist than "export_ancillaries1.txt", "export_ancillaries.txt", "export_descr_ancillaries.txt"??

Well not Ancillary scripts per-se but rather campaign scripts based on the presence/existence and location of the ancillaries, as well as some of the character traits (naval command and electability if I remember correctly) caused by those ancillaries. Anduril, the one ring, and a couple of others actually have quite a bit of hidden coding attached to them.

REPORT: Legendary death of Elessar!!! Elessar was killed by an orcish arrow 5 seconds before victory at Rivendell!!!!! "History became legend. Legend became myth. And for two and a half thousand years, the flame of the west passed out of all knowledge..."

Haha, epic!

[Halvar von Flake]

Thanks!
AI Numenor doesn't do much (that you can see ) other than just survive for 60-80 turns or so. But, the Gondor campaign is definitely something special all to itself. Both the Gondor and Rohan campaigns are very 'last stand'-y and have significantly altered victory conditions and scripting from the original base mod. Plenty of epic defending needed in both of those. Mordor actually managed to take Minas Tirith from me fair and square this one time.
Well not Ancillary scripts per-se but rather campaign scripts based on the presence/existence and location of the ancillaries, as well as some of the character traits (naval command and electability if I remember correctly) caused by those ancillaries. Anduril, the one ring, and a couple of others actually have quite a bit of hidden coding attached to them.

Haha, epic!

Elessar's death was epic indeed! When I attacked Rivendell I was especially worried about the reinforcements standing next to the city because I had only a small army in field. I thought a quick strong stride and Imladris would be mine before the orc reinforcements arrived. I suffered heavy losses by missile fire and strong melee defense but made it to the centre of the city realizing that I had to capture the bridge for victory! Thus, Elessar and a few surviving Numenoreans ran back to hold the bridge but orc reinforcement had made it close to it meanwhile. Elessar and his bodyguards were in the lead and got under missile fire and the other Numenoreans tried to guard him but i was too late...a black arrow found his way into Elessar's breast. He never really had recovered from his wounds he carried away from the black gate and his frail body was too weak to compensate this vital blow...

By the way, did you change the missile mechanics? Missiles appear to be more deadly for me in V2.6...I attacked, for instance, a orc rabble hunter skirmisher unit standing on walls with four Numenorean spear units and all of them suffered heavy losses...hmm...

And I still have CTDs in the Numenor campaign although I use unchanged V2.6 ancillary.texts. I think there might be a problem with the gondorian buildings in the free peoples cities...hmm...something is not running smoothly...but maybe you have another explanation...?!

Maybe I go for a Gondorian last stand campaign next week, so I can figure out if I suffer more, less or no CTDs with this faction in the Numenor campaign modus...

Another question/idea...is it possible to increase the chance of troll armies attacking a city directly? This would be great fun and in many cases more challenging!!

And I still think it would be nice to have the choice with the Numenor faction to recruit Rangers of the North...

[CapnDan]

Any new CTDs you're experiencing are most likely due to additional modifications fighting each other or problems with the installation (you're sure you installed into a clean RTW - LotR-TW install and then patched to lotrtw 3.02, and then Campaigns addon?). Like I said before, the campaigns pack includes bugfixes to the base mod. But that being said, there are still some issues with the settlements from the stock mod (but not so many that you'd be constantly seeing CTDs), it's basically the last thing I'd like to have done to make the project totally complete but I just don't have the skills or software to do the last round of polishing on the settlements unfortunately.

Also, do you have "show_err" enabled on your shortcut? Knowing which error (if any) the game gives you when it crashes will be useful to help identify the problem.

As for missiles, they are unchanged from previous versions.

[Halvar von Flake]

I made a clean reinstall of RTW-TW and LotR-TW before I installed your V2.6 addon but I could have forgotten the "lotrtw_3.02_Bugfix.zip"...
...so, I will make up the leeway...copy the 3.02-Bugfix into the lotr-folder and then V2.6.! Thanks a lot!

[Halvar von Flake]

Everthing is fine now! I forgot the 3.02-Bugfix! No crashes anymore!

Now, I can continue my Numenor campaign without worrying about multiple AI-attacks!

Suggestion: Hobbit Archers, Hobbit Militia, Hobbit Stonethrowers (and Free Peoples' Hunters would be nice either) available for Numenor faction! It's such a fun to defend the Shire!! And, as you know it belongs to the lost realm of Arnor...

[Halvar von Flake]

Little Report Numenor campaign, turn 78: I toggled fog of war for a moment and saw that Southrons have taken all Gondorian territories. Shaman leaders look very nice but appear to be as powerful as mumakils as far as the strat map is concerned...

[CapnDan]

Everthing is fine now! I forgot the 3.02-Bugfix! No crashes anymore!

Suggestion: Hobbit Archers, Hobbit Militia, Hobbit Stonethrowers (and Free Peoples' Hunters would be nice either) available for Numenor faction! It's such a fun to defend the Shire!! And, as you know it belongs to the lost realm of Arnor...

Glad to hear it and maybe something to think about I guess.

Little Report Numenor campaign, turn 78: I toggled fog of war for a moment and saw that Southrons have taken all Gondorian territories. Shaman leaders look very nice but appear to be as powerful as mumakils as far as the strat map is concerned...

Nope, that's totally intentional and is the regrouped/remaining umbar pirates actually attacking from the West while Mordor attacks from the East. Like I, and the campaign description says, the Gondor campaign is very much a desperate last stand. In the Return of Numenor campaign, the AI will regularly and almost without exception trounce Gondor by about turn 35 or so. The trouncing is totally fair, by design, and in my estimation at least, epic to play.

[CapnDan]

Elessar's death was epic indeed! ... (Elessar)never really had recovered from his wounds he carried away from the black gate and his frail body was too weak to compensate this vital blow...

Oh, also maybe worth mentioning as this is a feature of the Campaigns addon that's easy to overlook; but I've actually fixed the entire LotR-TW trait system so that it now pretty well works as was originally intended. So, wounded characters who stay in a settlement (especially one with healing structures) will slowly recover from wounds over time.

[Halvar von Flake]

Glad to hear it and maybe something to think about I guess.


Nope, that's totally intentional and is the regrouped/remaining umbar pirates actually attacking from the West while Mordor attacks from the East. Like I, and the campaign description says, the Gondor campaign is very much a desperate last stand. In the Return of Numenor campaign, the AI will regularly and almost without exception trounce Gondor by about turn 35 or so. The trouncing is totally fair, by design, and in my estimation at least, epic to play.

Yes, indeed, it is epic to play! And it will take outstanding efforts to repell the forces of evil out of Rohan and Gondor...!! Some ranger and hobbit units could help doing so...

Elessar was cured for several rounds in Fornost with a medium fountain of healing inside but the frail body trait never left...Earendur now leads the Dunedain of the North with Sting into battle...!

Narya was found with Thranduil in Mirkwood! What happened to Mithrandir?!? Maybe he will accompany Elessar in the fire ball unit outfit to Fornost in the next version of this awesome addon...?!

[Halvar von Flake]

Report, turn 116:

The lost realm of Arnor now extends from Kibil Dum to Gundabad and from Lunelaith to Rivendell. Mordor armies march on Gundabad and Dunlending attacks increase significantly whereas Orc Rabbles struggle with extinction. The Elven factions, Dwarves and Dalian men still own 3 to 5 territories in average and Eomer holds Woldberg as the last Rohirric retreat. A Numenorean and Noldor army is going to cross the misty mountains at Kydrol Sym pass to chase an Easterling warlord sighted by a spy in Thoronburg carrying the One Ring…

Suggestions:

- Catapults recruitable at Fornost
- Gondorian Miltia Archers recruitable for Numenor in Gondor
- simply take all Free Peoples` units as militia for Numenoreans including special units like ents and beornings, rangers and hobbits as the Free peoples territories cover more or less the lost realm of Arnor - this would be even awesomer!!!

[CapnDan]

Gandalf is gone, missing perhaps, but gone since the battle at the Black Gate.

As for other units:
-a limited selection of hobbits of Numenor seems reasonable and probably just an oversight that they're not there already
-Eoryn I will likely also be back in a next version if one comes (also kind of an oversight)
-Catapults I kind of felt were against the theme of the desperate and disparate army (of heroes basically) so they're not there
-rangers, ents, and beornings aren't available for numenor both for story and gameplay reasons. Usually they don't fit the story for the faction/campaign and/or the intended design for the feeling of being limited when you play this faction.

[Halvar von Flake]

I guess Gandalf will come back to us at the turn of the tide...maybe as an easter egg...?!?

I understand you have a slightly different interpretation of the Numenor campaign than me. Although I think ents and beornings would help Elessar with his disparate army when facing the hordes of darkness... ...and catapults could have very long recruiting times...! I generally prefer when you have the choice...and by the way catapults make a lot of fun! And you will need them after the defeat of Mordor against Southrons, Isengard and Easterlings...

[Halvar von Flake]

Some more suggestions:

- make a choice of mercenary units available consisting of units of a destructed faction for allied factions, i. e. if Gondor is destroyed make some Gondorian troops available as mercenaries for Rohan, Dale or Free Peoples etc. on Gondorian territories (for instance catapults or mounted knights). Or if Orc Rabbles is destroyed Mordor, Isengard can hire hill or cave trolls or other orc rabbles units as mercenary units in former orc rabbles' regions.

- use the spy model if possible as strat map model for ranger units and smaller weathertop models as watch towers for free peoples and ranger captains for free peoples units - some older suggestions by me...just to remind you...

Nice you made spies available for free peoples! And very nice rangers of the north are recruitable and used as general units!!!

[CapnDan]

Some more suggestions:

- make a choice of mercenary units available consisting of units of a destructed faction for allied factions, i. e. if Gondor is destroyed make some Gondorian troops available as mercenaries for Rohan, Dale or Free Peoples etc. on Gondorian territories (for instance catapults or mounted knights). Or if Orc Rabbles is destroyed Mordor, Isengard can hire hill or cave trolls or other orc rabbles units as mercenary units in former orc rabbles' regions.

- use the spy model if possible as strat map model for ranger units and smaller weathertop models as watch towers for free peoples and ranger captains for free peoples units - some older suggestions by me...just to remind you...

The first suggestion you have is actually already implemented, hidden away in the game code.
Although it's not actually as mercenaries as the precise suggestion you've made is not really possible, but most factions can recruit a limited number of non-factional units if they control the right regions and/or have the right buildings to training those unit types. Generally it's lower tier units though (and rightly so I'd say).

As for stratmap models, these are tricky, tied to the culture type (which numenor is sneakily sharing with gondor in the game code and dealing with that is a whole other bag of worms completely), and for me personally, I don't think these changes would add anything to the game. I've grown rather attached to the idea of the Free Peoples militia being just farmers and townspeople, and it fits with the story lore to boot.