Income of Cities won't increase with population / development?!

**unseendeath** · October 14, 2013, 01:53 PM

I have been playing my current game of MTWII with objective of creating a rich empire, which includes cities that produce large incomes. However, I am having trouble with couple of cities just not increasing there income. At the end of my post I attached the income that have decreased/stuck after 14 turns.

I have increased population in those cities, build economic buildings (grain/markets, roads, ports, farms, etc) but the income isn't budging. Take Leon for example, in 14 turns it get new stone wall (city level uped), population up by 65% / 4,000, yet the income decreased by almost $100. Shouldn't it be going up?

Only thing that went down a bit was public order to 120. So I did test and added a Governor to another city (Cordoba) even with increased public order and population the income is down.

This is making no sense to me. Seems like I am spending tons of $$$ building these cities up but am not getting an income boost out of it!!!

**unseendeath** · October 14, 2013, 01:54 PM

Forgot to mention I am playing Vanilla version. Any suggestions on how to fix this? Thanks!

**Aeratus** · October 14, 2013, 10:11 PM

Here are the most likely explanations I can think of:

1. You went to war with some of your neighbors, which halted sea trade going into and out of your ports to the faction you're warring against. I can see that your cities are coastal cities with sea trade.

2. Bandits/rebels spawned on your roads, thereby disrupting the trade routes in and out of your provinces. Iberian cities have this problem because the place is so large for rebels to spawn.

3. Your governor adopted bad tax traits. In the vanilla version, it is very easy for governors to get bad tax traits if the tax rates remain low for an extended period of time.

**unseendeath** · October 14, 2013, 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by Aeratus

Here are the most likely explanations I can think of:

1. You went to war with some of your neighbors, which halted sea trade going into and out of your ports to the faction you're warring against. I can see that your cities are coastal cities with sea trade.

2. Bandits/rebels spawned on your roads, thereby disrupting the trade routes in and out of your provinces. Iberian cities have this problem because the place is so large for rebels to spawn.

3. Your governor adopted bad tax traits. In the vanilla version, it is very easy for governors to get bad tax traits if the tax rates remain low for an extended period of time.

Thanks for the info.

So if all factors stay the same and population increase, theoretically my income should increase right? I wasn't sure exactly how my income was getting calculated.

Also, I have all by cities at "Growth Policy" or "Low Tax Rate" to grow them for now.

**Emperor of The Great Unknown** · October 16, 2013, 10:25 AM

We could get a better idea of whats happening if you posted the settlement details scroll. Also corruption has a part in ungoverned towns and in larger empires.

**Aeratus** · October 17, 2013, 02:03 AM

If your population increases, then income also increases. However, the influence of population alone is not that significant compared to factors like trade routes.

**Yayattasa** · October 19, 2013, 09:38 AM

Just asking, are you sure you don't have a ton of armies laying around? IIRC, the income already decuces the upkeep (or is it the FMs/Generals paying?)

**Aeratus** · October 20, 2013, 01:17 AM

For big cities that are well-developed, trade generally constitutes 70%+ of income. Taxes (if on low) usually only amounts to 10% of the income. Population does affect trade income, but is not as important as the number of trade routes and the trade buildings that have been built in the settlement.

Originally Posted by Yayattasa

Just asking, are you sure you don't have a ton of armies laying around? IIRC, the income already decuces the upkeep (or is it the FMs/Generals paying?)

Actually, army upkeep cost is not displayed in the city income in M2TW.

This differs from RTW in which upkeep cost was actually subtracted from the city income (which meant that cities in RTW could have a negative displayed income).

**Yayattasa** · October 20, 2013, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by Aeratus

For big cities that are well-developed, trade generally constitutes 70%+ of income. Taxes (if on low) usually only amounts to 10% of the income. Population does affect trade income, but is not as important as the number of trade routes and the trade buildings that have been built in the settlement.

Actually, army upkeep cost is not displayed in the city income in M2TW.

This differs from RTW in which upkeep cost was actually subtracted from the city income (which meant that cities in RTW could have a negative displayed income).

I stand corrected

What about the generals paying? Does the same applies to them?

**Vipman** · October 19, 2013, 10:18 AM

Population increase gives insignificant increase to trade and tax income. Population is important only to get to upgrade your cities/castles. Otherwise it's useless and gives a lot of squalor. Trade, particularly sea trading by building merchant's wharf/warehouse building and from paved roads is the most important source of income in the game. Once you get to huge city keep taxes at very high. For landlocked regions you can put them even earlier, from minor city, unless you can get good units later from them.

**Scipio236** · November 17, 2013, 10:20 AM

The markets and trade routes are important

**Spartan999** · November 17, 2013, 06:49 PM

you can change some files to get more money, but that would be heresy (AKA:cheating) and you shouldn't do it

**TheWanderer** · November 19, 2013, 05:31 PM

I'm playing as Turkey, I've got several cities with the population of over 25k so keeping them happy has become quite a problem. I gave Baghdad to the Germans as a present and since no German troops appeared when they received it, I re-conquered it right away exterminating the population. Miraculously the income increased.

**UndrState** · November 19, 2013, 09:31 PM

Yup, that reduce your squalor problems to IIRC

**SirRobin** · November 28, 2013, 06:16 AM

I know that taxes are only a small part of the city income, but the more people in the city, the bigger trade income, right? If you have 2 cities on the coast trading with each other, the profit increases with their individual sizes. Bigger market, more income, isn't that correct?

**Nzg** · November 28, 2013, 11:13 AM

You are correct.

**Vipman** · November 28, 2013, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by SirRobin

Bigger market, more income, isn't that correct?

Problem is that each markel level gives the same increase to trade income but it's cost increases. In cities with highest trade income (from sea trade) market gives between 150-300 more florins. Only in such cities I build up to level 3 market, level 4 being low priority, if I have money to spare.

**SirRobin** · November 29, 2013, 03:39 AM

Originally Posted by Vipman

Problem is that each markel level gives the same increase to trade income but it's cost increases. In cities with highest trade income (from sea trade) market gives between 150-300 more florins. Only in such cities I build up to level 3 market, level 4 being low priority, if I have money to spare.

I'm not sure you're right about this. If trade income is dependent on your neighbouring trading partners' city sizes, their road links and their own levels of markets...