Shogun II Total Realism [Beta 15.10.02 released]

[Grauman]

Cool Mod.

[farazdionakbar]

why line infantry's formation so loose? it makes the regiment seem so undisciplined

[Destin Faroda]

why line infantry's formation so loose? it makes the regiment seem so undisciplined

Do you mean late line infantry? They use late 19th century tactics. Use them like skirmishers with light infantry behaviour, although they can't hide in grass.
Normal line infantry features tight formations.

[bcsath]

Hey Destin, I'm loving the mod so far. Quick question, in the Fall of the Samurai campaign my traditional units (such as the armored katana and yari samurai, the levy ashigaru, mounted samurai and the older artillery units like the mortar and bamboo cannon) are shown as the ones that appear in the Sengoku Jidai campaign e.g. the Tanegashima Samurai in the FotS campaign look like Tanegashima Ashigaru from sengoku.

Are these units placeholders for the time being or have I done something wrong. Sorry to bother you and good luck with the rest of the mod.

[Destin Faroda]

Are these units placeholders for the time being or have I done something wrong.

The Sengoku Jidai troops and Boshin troops share the same looks. Boshin troops should have a lower armour stat to reflect the downfall of armoursmithing during over 200 years of peace.

Status quo: I was busy building a Ryzen system which works like a charm. Now I have two weeks of holiday which I will use to finally make some decent progress.
The game still takes an eternity to start though... That's a real nuisance when you want to conduct some quick battle mechanic tests.

[bcsath]

That's fine. I just made a personal sub-mod for myself to use that only edited your s2tr_models.pack that makes some of the FotS traditional units look a wee bit more modern (and hopefully as historically accurate as possible). It's only really minor aesthetic changes, I might upload it at some point (only with your permission of course).

And thankyou for making my favourite mod for my favourite game

[Dead*Man*Wilson]

Glad to hear progress is still being made! Any chance of releasing a beta of what you've been working on?

Also, I know you're working on the battle mechanics first and foremost; but have you considered modding the family trees to reflect the starting year?

[Destin Faroda]

I'm still tweaking the battle mechanics as I got some inspiration from R2TR. At the moment, I'm fully concentrating on the Genpei period as it's the easiest campaign due to the small unit roster.
Currently, I'm researching armours. Apparently, the most common pieces of armour during the Genpei period were the Hara-ate (game has a small and a bigger verson), the doumaru/haramaki (I have to use the Sengoku Jidai version) and the heavy/bulky oyoroi (most likely a pure cavalry armour).
Genpei troops will fight in deep, disorderly formations and can move faster than all other infantry units as they don't have to uphold their formation. Therefore, they're harder to hit with ranged weapons and they won't lose cohesion as fast as disciplined troops of later periods, but they lack the frontal shield bonus for polearm wielders and the charge attack bonus.

Units:
- Shiganhei (only infantry)
- Shimobe (only infantry)
- Kaizoku (only infantry)
- Souhei (cavalry and infantry)
- Onna Bugeisha (garrison)
- Bushi (only cavalry)
- Saburai (garrison)

Primary weapons: naginata and daikyuu/tachi.
Special units: none. I'm thinking about giving Kantou cavalry units a slight experience bonus.

Buildings:
- Castle chain: Level 1-5
- Buddhism chain: Level 1-4
- Economy chain: Level 1-5
- Entertainment chain: Level 1-5
- Military chain: Kondei barracks
- Palace chain: Level 1-4, last one unique
- Farming chain: Level 1-5
- Port chain: Level 1-3 (trading or military)
- Region specialty: Level 1-3

Any comments/suggestions? I'm not an expert on that period.

[Eldgrimr]

Do you think it's possible to have a version with the original start date? The characters feel a bit out of place in 1570, considering the family trees are still the same.

[Destin Faroda]

Actually, I am planning to change the daimyous and officers. Thanks to Nobunaga's Ambition 14, I have access to a big database filled with hundreds of officers, not to mention that 1570 is one of the possible starting dates.

Currently, I'm still fighting with the battle mechanics. That hardcoded 50% hit chance is a pain in the ass. Either I give units an insane amount of melee defense or I could implement a resistance system like in R2TR (higher armour values, between 30-70).

[Dom9127]

Any comments/suggestions?

Great to see you still working on the mod. My suggestion for things to include, is Yari armed units for Genpei. Whilst the Naginta was more prominent they still had their place. The design was different with the staff being shorter and the point that of the Fukuro type.

https://www.japaneseswordindex.com/polearms.htm

http://realculturejapan.mods.jp/swor...rmor8)/032.gif

Another unit distinct to the period is the Oyumi similar to the Chinese style crossbows. Its a static weapon but useful for sieges and Naval combat.

http://imgur.com/lCvly5Y

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...y-crossbow.jpg

Finally the unit that I feel would add alot to the game, is a peasant unit armed with scythes, staffs and spears to represent rebellions, bandits, uprisings etc. This could also be used for all three of the campaigns.

For more information the works of Karl Friday and Anthony J Bryant, would probably be useful.

https://ospreypublishing.com/store/m...ai-ad-200-1500

[Destin Faroda]

My suggestion for things to include, is Yari armed units for Genpei. Whilst the Naginta was more prominent they still had their place. The design was different with the staff being shorter and the point that of the Fukuro type.

I presume the genin and the shimobe would use such a weapon? As far as I know, the Bushi prefered to stay on horseback with their bulky oyorois.

Another unit distinct to the period is the Oyumi similar to the Chinese style crossbows. Its a static weapon but useful for sieges and Naval combat.

I thought they didn't use that weapon anymore during the Genpei period. However, the first Warscape game with crossbow support is Attila, so there's probably not much I can do about that.

Finally the unit that I feel would add alot to the game, is a peasant unit armed with scythes, staffs and spears to represent rebellions, bandits, uprisings etc. This could also be used for all three of the campaigns.

A special rebel unit? That's a great idea.

[farazdionakbar]

Do you mean late line infantry? They use late 19th century tactics. Use them like skirmishers with light infantry behaviour, although they can't hide in grass.
Normal line infantry features tight formations.

Ah, i tought it was like a bug or something cause it still in beta phase lol. Anyway dou your best, i really love your mod and i will wait for the final release!

[Dom9127]

I presume the genin and the shimobe would use such a weapon?

Yes, it seems to be a weapon for foot soldiers.

I thought they didn't use that weapon anymore during the Genpei period.

Here is an interesting interview with Karl Friday. Bear in mind it seems to be a ballista rather than a crossbow, so its utility would have been limited in an era with few sieges.

http://www.theshogunshouse.com/2009/...ssor-karl.html

A special rebel unit? That's a great idea.

It always seemed odd to me, to see that the rebels always spawned as fully armed and trained Ashigaru and Samurai. Peasant revolts and banditry were also very common.

Are you still planning to reintroduce the tech-trees? If so I found some interesting academic papers about technological development during the Sengoku era, that might interest you.

[Destin Faroda]

Are you still planning to reintroduce the tech-trees? If so I found some interesting academic papers about technological development during the Sengoku era, that might interest you.

Yes, I would like to add some real techs and reforms. So far, I only have some simple techs like cupellation or some kind of poetry that was introduced during this era.

[Hazzard]

I thought they didn't use that weapon anymore during the Genpei period. However, the first Warscape game with crossbow support is Attila, so there's probably not much I can do about that.

I know Morning Sun has Crossbow Units now, I think they work like firearms. If you do add crossbows, perhaps take a look there?

Yes, I would like to add some real techs and reforms. So far, I only have some simple techs like cupellation or some kind of poetry that was introduced during this era.

Perhaps have two paths for a military tree? I like the idea of having to choose between focusing on your samurai, which improves social order, or focusing on the peasantry, at the risk of making provinces easier to control short term, but harder long term, making your faction more fragile, as a result of an armed population.

[Cheomesh]

Cool looking mod! I somehow did not see this was around when I was real into Shogun 2 a few years back.

I have a few questions:

Do you have a summary of specific changes? I flipped through a few pages of this thread but did not see it - just references to some various changes.

Is ranked/kneel fire ever coming back? It seems kind of weird that rear rows would be blasting through the guys in the front (all fire).

What kind of changes do Traditional campaigns in Fall have? I've done Vanilla campaigns but never did a full Traditional one (even if I keep traditional units around). I was originally going to start my own mod to improve that kind of campaign, but never really had the time to. It would be nice if they were more diverse and interesting (and if they were more available early game! It felt weird having to "tech up" or "build up" to units that have been around for hundreds of years at this point).

Is there a new version coming out in the near future? I downloaded but did not install the current one, was wondering what kind of "state" it was in at this point.

Thanks,

M.

[Destin Faroda]

Do you have a summary of specific changes?

The mod introduces better combat mechanics, lots of new units, different building effects and even some new building chains.

Is ranked/kneel fire ever coming back?

In my test version, you can use both.

What kind of changes do Traditional campaigns in Fall have?

You can recruit all traditional units right from the start and they are better in melee (due to higher armour values). However, you won't stand a chance in ranged combat.

Is there a new version coming out in the near future?

I'm still working on the Genpei campaign and have started adding the first Sengoku Jidai units. Due to work and train driving, I don't have as much spare time as I used to.

[Aryev]

The Skill Tree is empty on Sengoku Jidai?

[sorinel1991]

Yes, he said he is working on the skill tree. Remember this is a work in progress !