Shogun II Total Realism [Beta 15.10.02 released]

[Destin Faroda]

Which campaign? The Boshin one? Actually, the Boshin campaign does start without problems, but whenever I click on my town, it crashes. I need to know if this is a flaw of my mod or of my Shogun II version.
Did you add both packfiles (S2TR and Test) to the data folder?
Go to User\YourName\AppData\Roaming\The Creative Assembly\Shogun II\ and delete everything besides the scripts and maps folder. This can solve many issues and it fixed the UI.

Due to the fact that this bug prevents me from improving the campaign, I have started to tinker around with the armour system. According to JaM in his Rome II Total Realism thread, armour = chance in percent to survive a mortal blow. Therefore, the current values are way too low. To fix that, I have introduced 4 slots: head, torso, arms and legs. Armour value and agility bonus now depend on the pieces worn.
- Infantry charge attack was slightly improved
- Japanese ponies were sturdy, but slow so their speed was reduced
- Fatigue now reduces running speed (Strangely, this feature was not used in Empire Realism)

[Marcus Tullius]

Did you add both packfiles (S2TR and Test) to the data folder?
Go to User\YourName\AppData\Roaming\The Creative Assembly\Shogun II\ and delete everything besides the scripts and maps folder. This can solve many issues and it fixed the UI.

I did the first and I just did the second. I pick my faction, and it crashes on the loading screen.

[Destin Faroda]

I did the first and I just did the second. I pick my faction, and it crashes on the loading screen.

Fascinating.
- Which campaign and faction did you choose?
- What Shogun II version and DLCs do you have? I am using the European Gold version (all DLCs besides the Blood DLC) with the latest patch.
- What's the language of your Shogun II game? My mod contains English text tables.
- Do you have other mod files in your data folder? Packfiles with "movie" format are self-loading and could cause trouble.
- Are there patch/update pack files in your folder? There are none in my data folder.
- I've uploaded a new mod version without the problematic building tables: https://mega.co.nz/#!gh8TwKpb!zG0bMl...KVG6kxrs2lvEsM
Again, delete the folders in AppData before starting the game. Start a Fall of the Samurai campaign and tell me if it works.

[Marcus Tullius]

I'll try to answer these the best I can. I think I have version 1.1.0.0, I live in the US so I assume its whatever is sold here.

I have the modder content pack, shogun 2 itself, dragon war battle pack, fall of the samurai, fall of the samurai tsu faction, fall of the samurai soundtrack, rise of the samurai campaign.

dlc. I cant see any update packs, I believe I got rid of all other mod files in the date folder. I was of course playing fall of the samurai. I picked satsuma and aizu with the same result. I tried other factions earlier with the same result as well.

Ill try the new version as well.

[Marcus Tullius]

I am happy to report the new version is working so far (Ive only done one battle) I now think I made a mistake installing the last version.

so the moral levels seems decent, I personally think troops inside castles would still flee if they could find a way out though. I see you extended the ashigaru yari, but is it possible to make them longer? you probably already know this but they would be like the Macedonian phalanx in the first Rome. walls of super long pikes.

[Destin Faroda]

I am happy to report the new version is working so far (Ive only done one battle) I now think I made a mistake installing the last version.

Thanks for your help. So the campaign did work? I really don't know what I should do to fix the building tables.

so the moral levels seems decent, I personally think troops inside castles would still flee if they could find a way out though.

There is a special moral bonus for troops defending fortresses. I'll have a look at it. Fighting to the death is not something peasants would do.

I see you extended the ashigaru yari, but is it possible to make them longer?

No, unless you can make a new weapon model. According to Wikipedia, nagae yaris could reach a length of 6,5m.
By the way, I'm going to test the unused shield stat. Theoretically, it should greatly increase the frontal defense of polearm units so that you can use them to stop approaching troops. However, flank and rear attacks should negate the shield bonus. Let's see if it works.

After several tests, my new armour system doesn't work as expected. Therefore, I've switched back to the old values as they have worked very well.

Besides, I finally added Ikko-shu, Enryaku-ji, Negoro-ji and Zojo-ji sohei to the game. Now you can hire daikyu cavalry, naginata, teppo and daikyu infantry. Ikko-shu are numerous, but they are of similar quality than ashigarus. The other monks are of average quality and they have better armour than ashigarus but lower numbers. Due to their fanaticism, sohei morale is usually 2 points higher than that of troops of the same quality.

Another addition: samurai cavalry can use "guerilla deployment" as seen in Takeda 3 which is a bit more historically correct than Shogun II.

I'll also rework the arrows as they barely hit and damage anything.

[Marcus Tullius]

well I am playing as satsuma, and the campaign has worked so far. and individual armor thing might be more accurate but unnecessarily complicated, and the differences between sengoku and genpai armor was so great you would need different schemes for each of them.

the shield idea sounds good, though it should really only apply to long yari, the bonus for samurai and sohei units would be much smaller. they're strength is in melee and moral.


I know the genpai mod is a long ways off, but I did notice something big. I was using infantry like sengoku units, infantry of that time would be very hesitant to attack without theyre mounted superiors nearby. the historical record shows that infantry only beat Calvary when they had some sort of terrain advantage. and any skirmish probably would have been short.

perhaps make infantry scared of enemy calvary and give all calvary units a moral bonus for surrounding units, keeping base moral for infantry low over all for the genpai campaign

I should add that naginata of the genpai era would have longer blades, the type they are using now didn't come into vogue to later

[Marcus Tullius]

also with the arrows, if its possible, make them high in injury but low on deaths, so that many casualties would be recovered after the battle (I think the system allows this)

[Destin Faroda]

well I am playing as satsuma, and the campaign has worked so far.

However, a campaign without the new buildings, garrisons and recruitable units is worthless. As soon as I add those, the crashes return. Well, I'll try rebuilding the building tables from scratch.

and individual armor thing might be more accurate but unnecessarily complicated, and the differences between sengoku and genpai armor was so great you would need different schemes for each of them.

I've already switched back to the former system. Thanks to the non-existing documentation, it is not known how armour actually works. Some say it's a second melee defense stat, others claim it is separate and scales linearly.

the shield idea sounds good, though it should really only apply to long yari, the bonus for samurai and sohei units would be much smaller. they're strength is in melee and moral.

Only nagae yari and naginata ashigarus receive the shield bonus. Ashigarus were the only units fighting in dense formations. Samurai prefered duels (cutting heads off to collect bounties) and monks were a fanatic mob.

the historical record shows that infantry only beat Calvary when they had some sort of terrain advantage. and any skirmish probably would have been short.

Did cavalry actually engage in melee? As far as I know, the kondei troops always prefered archery over melee. The battle consisted of duels between equal buke. They announced their ancestors, waited for an equal to show up and then the archery contest began. Only when all arrows were shot did they engage in melee. That's impossible to properly recreate with this engine.

perhaps make infantry scared of enemy calvary and give all calvary units a moral bonus for surrounding units, keeping base moral for infantry low over all for the genpai campaign

I don't know if that would be a smart move. There is already a heavy moral penalty when fighting against cavalry (-15 if I remember correctly). In combination with a flank or rear attack, this usually routs lower-quality units.

I should add that naginata of the genpai era would have longer blades, the type they are using now didn't come into vogue to later

There's only one naginata model, so I have to use what's available. It's sad that nobody has added new, historically correct weapons and armours to the game. There's so much missing.

also with the arrows, if its possible, make them high in injury but low on deaths, so that many casualties would be recovered after the battle (I think the system allows this)

Arrow damage is quite low, so they're definitely not 1-shot-killers. I only need to find the right accuracy and spread values.

[Marcus Tullius]

I'll be honest, this is my first time playing the fots campaign so I didn't notice. do the units at least have the adjusted values?

I suspect the mounted samurai would pick them with arrows from a distance, I would speculate that shock infantry could not close the distance, and archers could be chanced down. you could substitute the nagimaki for the naginata, close enough.

I just think it would be best for historical accuracy sake to not have these genpai infantry fighting like sengoku massed formations, it just didn't happen.

the question of sohei is a bit more complicated than religious warriors or armed mob. the term sohei could be applied to any warrior that worked for a Buddhist temple. in many cases they were indistinguishable from samurai.

I know nothing about programing or modding itself, I can only prattle on about historical trivia. its a pity more modders are not helping you out

[Destin Faroda]

I'll be honest, this is my first time playing the fots campaign so I didn't notice. do the units at least have the adjusted values?

Of course. However, the current version uses the flawed armour system. Still, that's no big deal as modern firearms ignore armour. Melee battles might be a mess though. I've already fixed the values and might release another version to let you test the new sohei units.

I just think it would be best for historical accuracy sake to not have these genpai infantry fighting like sengoku massed formations, it just didn't happen.

Depending on the progress with the battle system, I might one day introduce the "tai". The tai was a tactical unit of the Sengoku jidai period. It consisted of 50-100 men. Implementing this lower the number of men per unit, but encourages you to use more units than before. This would also lead to lower numbers of men per Genpei unit. Boshin stays the same though.
This system would be much closer to reality. Otherwise, there's not much I can do to change Genpei troops. I've already chosen a wide formation with a space of 1,5 per units (ashigaru have 0,8 or 1) and unit space variation (disorderly placement instead of perfectly standing in line).

the question of sohei is a bit more complicated than religious warriors or armed mob. the term sohei could be applied to any warrior that worked for a Buddhist temple. in many cases they were indistinguishable from samurai.

Right now, Enryaku-ji, Negoro-ji and Zojo-ji monks have good armour and average skills (2 levels below samurai, 1 above ashigaru), but lower numbers than ashigaru. The Ikko-shu have higher numbers, but in terms of equipment, they are comparable to ashigaru. The former monks can be hired by the owner of the appropriate province as long as he is a Buddhist. Ikko-shu units are reserved to the Ikko faction.
I'm playing with the idea of adding the different Buddhist sects (Jodo, Jodo Shinshu, Nichiren etc.) to the game to make things more interesting, but I'd like to hear your oppinion on that before doing so.
Another problem is the fact that Ikko-shu units only have ashigaru-quality troops. In the campaign, this could be problematic. As far as I know, their armies consisted of peasants. Some samurai were mixed into the formations, but not enough to justify an increase in quality. The Sakai Ikki favored pure teppo armies, so they should be the anti-samurai unit.
Did temples have sohei of different qualities? Maybe rabble to fill the ranks and some elite sohei? The temples did have good workshops and training facilities. A Christian priest visiting Negoro-ji was surprised about their capabilities.

I know nothing about programing or modding itself, I can only prattle on about historical trivia. its a pity more modders are not helping you out

Indeed. I'd be happy to have a helping hand, but the realism modders (except for DaVinci) have mostly ignored Shogun II and are now concentrating on Rome II Total Realism. Their concept sounds promising though.
Kaunitz was tinkering around with the game, but was plagued by constant crashes after battles which has probably demotivated him.

Now I still have to add sohei to the Genpei campaign. Besides, Sakunin and Gesakunin (ashigaru possessing land) are still on the to-do-list.

[Sigmar Heldenhamer]

in all do fairness though , shogun 2 is near perfect when compared to Rome 2, which is where i believe all the modders should be working on lol , such a sad time the Darth retired though, but i will still be following this mod none the less

[Destin Faroda]

in all do fairness though , shogun 2 is near perfect when compared to Rome 2,

Both games are highly flawed and extremely ahistorical.

which is where i believe all the modders should be working on lol ,

Wrong. It's actually smarter to wait till the game is finished (CA considers a game to be finished when it has reached 90%. Then, they will ignore the last crashes, errors and sound bugs.) and a gold version has been released. Otherwise, you constantly have to rebuild your mods.

such a sad time the Darth retired though, but i will still be following this mod none the less

Darth now works on his own game which deals with the boring American Civil War. Besides, his Darthmods were always way too arcadish for fans of realistic gameplay.

Thanks to JaM, I might have found a way to greatly increase gate and building burning time.
Besides, he told me the game actually uses m/s for ship top speed, so I had to convert my knot values. This means ship speed was reduced by 50%. I also increased artillery reloading time and cannon damage. Japanese ships should now sink faster while the Boshin ships received more hitpoints. For some strange reasons, copper plated ships had no armour, so they received half as much armour as iron plated versions. There's still lots to do to improve naval battles.
Moreover, I've further increased melee defense and charge damage. This allows me to lower the unit sizes of Sengoku and Genpei units to historical values (40-100). Now I need to test these "tais".

[Sigmar Heldenhamer]

yeah lost all interest in this mod, peace out

[weirdoascensor]

Copper Plating were never intended to increase the ships resilience against Cannons - the thin copper plating prevent marine life such as barnacles and worms from sticking or burrowing on the ship's hull; hence less maintenance, less rotting, better hull longevity, better hydrodynamics, faster speed, and better maneuverability. It also have unintended effect of making the bottom hard to be drilled or latched with explosive mine charges.

[Destin Faroda]

Copper Plating were never intended to increase the ships resilience against Cannons - the thin copper plating prevent marine life such as barnacles and worms from sticking or burrowing on the ship's hull; hence less maintenance, less rotting, better hull longevity, better hydrodynamics, faster speed, and better maneuverability. It also have unintended effect of making the bottom hard to be drilled or latched with explosive mine charges.

So copper plating was primarily introduced to prevent fouling and it increases performace. Still, a small armour bonus shouldn't hurt, should it? Lower maintenance and faster speed etc. can easily be accomplished.

[IlluminatiRex]

Are you guys still interested in looking for a native English speaker to help with the unit descriptions?

[Destin Faroda]

Of course! Please send me a PM if you're interested.

[SD_Man]

yeah lost all interest in this mod, peace out

Live long and prosper.

@Destin: Has the "army camp" problem been resolved yet?

[Destin Faroda]

@Destin: Has the "army camp" problem been resolved yet?

Unfortunately, no. I'll try it again tomorrow. If it still doesn't work, I'm forced to try my luck with another campaign, preferably Genpei.