Gaining Gravitas

[RakeinWaiting]

Hello all!

Well, I am doing my best to ignore the choppy graphical rendering and play my way through a campaign as Macedon.

Its going well, Im steadily advancing into Asia. Ive noticed however that im steadily losing control over the Court Nobles. I though I could gain more influence and authority by winning wars and battles, opening up trade and promoting culture, but it is steadily slipping away to some other random guy outside the family doing nothing but sitting in port.

How can I gain more gravitas? More importantly, what happens when you lose all of your support? Civil war?

Cheers!

Rake

[karamazovmm]

the CW may happen for several reasons one of them is having too much support or too little

for you to get more gravitas one strategy is to remove gravitas from the other factions, by spreading rumours, sending their generals to die (you dont need to assassinate just send him alone in a suicide mission)

to gain gravitas, your generals need to have good victories and when they actually are useful, replace them with generals from your faction, repeat. this way you can rank them up in gravitas and as statesman they will gain a lot of influence

[Kraut]

to gain gravitas, your generals need to have good victories and when they actually are useful, replace them with generals from your faction, repeat. this way you can rank them up in gravitas and as statesman they will gain a lot of influence

I think this is the main point which is often misunderstood (if I understand the political system, of course):
You need statesmen to translate gravitas into gaining influence.
So character X from your family should first be used as an active General, gaining victories and this way levelling up his gravitas (with a promotion here and there), but once he has a strong gravitas level, he then must be replaced from the army and work as statesmen (i.e. "do nothing, sit in capital") so his gravitas will actually gain influence for your family.

You won´t get much influence from a high gravitas General still active in the field!

On the other hand, character Y from the "other family" should not be left sitting as statesman in the capital - because this way, he will collect influence for your opposition! Of course, he should not lead your victorious main armies, either. Instead, use "other family" characters as Generals for the quiet parts of your empire, just sitting ther, recruiting troops, keeping up the order. While an army is still building up forces, it shall be lead by Y from the other family. Once this army goes on a conquering campaign, replace Y with X from your family, and let him collect the victories.

[hippacrocafish]

I think this is the main point which is often misunderstood (if I understand the political system, of course):
You need statesmen to translate gravitas into gaining influence.
So character X from your family should first be used as an active General, gaining victories and this way levelling up his gravitas (with a promotion here and there), but once he has a strong gravitas level, he then must be replaced from the army and work as statesmen (i.e. "do nothing, sit in capital") so his gravitas will actually gain influence for your family.

You won´t get much influence from a high gravitas General still active in the field!

On the other hand, character Y from the "other family" should not be left sitting as statesman in the capital - because this way, he will collect influence for your opposition! Of course, he should not lead your victorious main armies, either. Instead, use "other family" characters as Generals for the quiet parts of your empire, just sitting ther, recruiting troops, keeping up the order. While an army is still building up forces, it shall be lead by Y from the other family. Once this army goes on a conquering campaign, replace Y with X from your family, and let him collect the victories.

Well, crap. I didn't know any of that. Thanks for the tip(s).

[karamazovmm]

thats basically what I said, but without generals the other factions only have the statesman as their gravitas center

so you can limit the gravitas generation by simply not using any of the other factions generals unless they are the statesman of the said faction

[Kraut]

thats basically what I said

Yes, absolutely. But I felt the need to point that out, because while YOU obviously understand the mechanics, I think many others do not, or are mistaken to some degree.
At least, I remember reading a lot posts like "I never use any other family Generals, but they still have more influence WTF" on several forums, so it seems these mechanics are not fully understood quite often.

However, just wanted to point that out, the credit for mentioning/explaining it all belongs to you!

[Demetrios of Messene]

The statesman status is something I've been wondering about. Is it explained in the encyclopeadia or is it based on your observations that statesmen increase their gravitas by default?

[karamazovmm]

so far observation, they are more effective in gaining influence when left as statesman after a good run in the military life, I havent read the encyclopaedia or if there is any entry regarding that

here is what it says about gravitas

http://dsi0fanyw80ls.cloudfront.net/...rch?q=gravitas

tutorial on power

http://dsi0fanyw80ls.cloudfront.net/...Politicalpower

[Demetrios of Messene]

+rep for taking the time to reply with links

In general, I observe that Generals to whom I have secured promotions tend to increase their gravitas while on the field. I do not normally let them be statesmen, so I cannot tell if the increase will be even greater if acting as statesmen. I am also unsure if their provincial bonuses apply to the capital when they are statesmen...


QUOTE from the gravitas link:
" [Gravitas] gradually increases over time through military victories and his actions during missions or as the subject of dilemmas. When a certain level is reached, and a character is important enough to take part in Roman political life, they appear in the important characters section of the faction panel."

What missions? Do individuals have missions?
Also what is the important characters session? All individuals who have been generals (plus a few more at the start of the campaign) appear in the faction panel. I do not remember any character popping up in other cases; maybe I am not paying enough attention?

Ahhh, I miss the huge detailed manuals of old so often.

[Kraut]

In general, I observe that Generals to whom I have secured promotions tend to increase their gravitas while on the field. I do not normally let them be statesmen, so I cannot tell if the increase will be even greater if acting as statesmen.

Attention: Yes, gravitas is increased by Generals gaining victories in the field. But to (significantly) translate this gravitas into senate influence for your family, they need to act as statesmen in the capital.

[Jbillybrack]

What missions? Do individuals have missions?
Also what is the important characters session? All individuals who have been generals (plus a few more at the start of the campaign) appear in the faction panel. I do not remember any character popping up in other cases; maybe I am not paying enough attention?

Ahhh, I miss the huge detailed manuals of old so often.

I believe the "missions" are the "your family member is being blackmailed, pay money or lose gravitas" or the faction dilemmas marked by a "!" on your faction icon.

[RakeinWaiting]

Thank you all for the informative responses!

I admit, I do enjoy the struggle of political power, but CA could have made it way easier to understand.

My influence has dropped below 30% now, so civil war is not far away.

Another question: Can you only have one civil war? I remember CA saying you could only have one (I was pretty upset about the historical inaccuracy of this until I saw screenshots of full Rebel stacks!)

But ive read a few threads of people who have had more. any help?

[♠ Thomas Cochrane ♠]

well I've certainly learnt something! Why wasn't this explained to us in the tutorial!?

[priam11]

Well I'll be......

[Tsarsies]

The encyclopedia doesn't say anything about a general compared to a statesman in as to which grants more influence for a party... But then, the encyclopedia isn't exactly complete now either...

There are special character missions you get from time to time (in a sense anyway, more like choices to make for them or about them). Like when your general becomes attached to that fawn, and u can choose to kill it, let him keep it, or do nothing. Or Like when your sister is called a witch and whether u should burn her, let her go free or let the people decide... I have had many of these such incidents. And each time they appear in you faction panel waiting for u to make a decision in what to do.

But i think what it means by 'during missions' is what the character does during missions. does he sit in town, or is he the one who takes back the capital, or the one who faces the army in the field or whatever the 'council; mission was ...

But in general the faction panel only has ur generals and statesmen. Which includes family members for each of the families/parties.

[Wicked Moose]

stuff like this, or the cunning/zeal/... thing should be explained in the tutorial imho

[Marus312]

stuff like this, or the cunning/zeal/... thing should be explained in the tutorial imho

If you mouse over them under your general's portrait it will tell you what each one does. The higher the level the more special abilities each trait provides, as well as an increased passive effect. Each trait is focused around a specific thing, ie zeal increases the strength of your general, and authority increases the strength of your armyBut anyway, I had no idea statesmen were supposed to be used like that, I always made them generals because I thought they were more effective in that regard

[Boicote]

delete please

[Slaists]

I tend to rotate the generals of my faction in and out of the capital (statesman positions) as needed. If there is action (read: battles): I put them in the field (victories gain them extra influence). If there's a period of peace/maneuvering I put my good generals in the city and use substitutes from "the other faction" to lead the maneuvers/training while my statesmen gain influence for the party.

As to promotions: beware that promotions can actually result in diminishing influence for your party since they cost influence points outright. Better to promote high ambition generals (with high gravitas to start with) since ambition works as an amplifier for gravitas (you get more for the bang [influence spent on the promotion]) and leave the 1 ambition generals un-promoted. Also, do not over-recruit from your own faction. Each recruitment (general) will cost you influence which might or might not be compensated by the gravitas of the freshly recruited general.

As suggested before, try to keep the statesmen of the opposition busy in quiet places of your empire. If the opposition has a high ambition general/statesman, you might find it profitable for that general to start leading reckless charges. It does not cost any influence to throw a javelin in that general's back in the field, but it will cost you a lot of influence and cash to assassinate/or adopt him. Try not to get your own good generals killed: a good general of your own faction biting the dust during a battle can cost a lot of influence.

As to too much/too little influence. There is a distinction between republics and monarchies. In monarchies, more influence is better (for stability). In Republics, you have to find a balance (too much is bad, too little is bad).

[Demetrios of Messene]

This has been a most informative thread! Thank you, Kraut, Tsarsies and Jbillybrack! and Slaists