A spearpoint

[Hoplite of Ilis]

Hello all. Is it possible to mod the Makedonian Phalanx so as to stop enemy units at spearpoint - just like RTW? It is really stupid that the enemy can walk right through...

[[N2]Kami]

Well, Phalanx is not meant to be unbeatable.

[Langer Kerl]

Well, Phalanx is not meant to be unbeatable.

Well Id say by frontal attack, they pretty much should. A pike phalanx is made to be the strongest possible frontal attack formation, while having major tradeoffs such as the vulnerability on all other sides, low maneuverability, slowness, exposure to missle fire and almost certain defeat if the formation gets interrupted. All these negative points should be enough to justify extreme frontal toughness. Currently, units such as high tier babarian units can just charge right through the front of a pike phalanx and win decisively.

[Hoplite of Ilis]

Well, Phalanx is not meant to be unbeatable.

I didn't say unbeatable! But not the Greeks nor the Romans fight as they should. Come on! Formation fighting was promised. Instead we get heavy metal pits!

[GnaReffotsirk]

Seems it's just been added into the patch 4 update. Will tell you how it goes.

[Hoplite of Ilis]

Seems it's just been added into the patch 4 update. Will tell you how it goes.

Good news! Patch 3 didn't seem to do it for me.

[GnaReffotsirk]

Only noticed the same thing Tenerife_Boy mentioned up there. But I did see units still ignore the pikes. By ignore, I mean, just pass through them without a slight choke or stagger.

[karamazovmm]

im very afraid of that small patch today

[Moody]

The problem is one of resistance - in RTW the resistance was too high and it made pikes virtual walls, we complained about this back then - in RTW2 they are non existent and provide no resistance at all, units just charge right through which is going to far

what we need is a happy middle ground where units can push through but do so slowly not straight through... as to if it is modable ... I doubt it, modders can change the formation bonuses but I don't think the resistance is something they can change

[karamazovmm]

i dont see a problem of resistance if you keep 5 rows of minimum depth they will slaughter anything in front with few casualties. basically its a matter of depth

[vietanh797]

Patch 4 beta the last update"Made it much harder for enemy infantry units to move/push through a pike phalanx."

[GnaReffotsirk]

Nope. There's nothing there still. No resistance in the patch 4 update. Units can still pass through them long spears as if the spears aren't there.

We need someone else to confirm. I did only one test. The unit disco-blob-shake-'n-pop, is still there though.

Unit: It's getting tight in here. Beam me up Scotty!

[Americanus Supremus]

Middle ground?!? That's nonsense, this is TOTAL WAR!!!!! ErrrrrrYeahhhhhh (insert Howard Dean voice here)

[GnaReffotsirk]

That's with a "gh" right there at the end of it A.S. We gotta have them "gh" man. Makes 'em all manly and all that.

So it's gonna be like, "ErrrrrrYeahhhhhhgh". Coz "ErrrrrrYeahhhhhhgh" is kinda more "gh"-ish. You know?..

[Tenerife_Boy]

What I see is every infantry regiment avoid to attack a phalanx pikemen unit by the front...wich is of common sense. Instead, they attack other units or try always to flank me (they never manage to do it )

[AgentGB]

You should try playing with pikemen this way, your realise how OP they are.

This is the traditional setup for a pike phalanx for most players,

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Below is a better setup

This is a really exploity way to beat someone, anything in front of that will be destroyed badly, so long you screen it in with some expendable troops to asorb missles. Don't select attack, just have them march from point "A" to point "B", with a large selection of enemy units in between, you will rout the army easily. The third line also acts as a rear guard, and can be pulled out of melee quite easily to cover the rear, while the flanks could be held long enough with hoplites. So longs you attack with a minimum on two units in such waves, nothing will stand long enough to be a threat or cause as much damage as your producing. With larger unit sizes, the map becomes smaller, and phalanx alot harder to flank. In vanilla, the unit sizes do make it flankable, but in a MP game, your objective is to win, or pin a section of the army in place, this formation would do the job pretty well, with cretan archers, citzen cav, and some hoplites to watch the flanks, thats a pretty unstoppable formation.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

With the first setup, its unit fighting unit still for the most part, and although you may come out on top, part of your line may break, etc, but with the phalanx being able to overlap each other, suffering from no collision, they will destroy everything in it path.

Pikemen are very OP if used this way.

[Hoplite of Ilis]

You should try playing with pikemen this way, your realise how OP they are.

This is the traditional setup for a pike phalanx for most players,

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Below is a better setup

This is a really exploity way to beat someone, anything in front of that will be destroyed badly, so long you screen it in with some expendable troops to asorb missles. Don't select attack, just have them march from point "A" to point "B", with a large selection of enemy units in between, you will rout the army easily. The third line also acts as a rear guard, and can be pulled out of melee quite easily to cover the rear, while the flanks could be held long enough with hoplites. So longs you attack with a minimum on two units in such waves, nothing will stand long enough to be a threat or cause as much damage as your producing. With larger unit sizes, the map becomes smaller, and phalanx alot harder to flank. In vanilla, the unit sizes do make it flankable, but in a MP game, your objective is to win, or pin a section of the army in place, this formation would do the job pretty well, with cretan archers, citzen cav, and some hoplites to watch the flanks, thats a pretty unstoppable formation.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

With the first setup, its unit fighting unit still for the most part, and although you may come out on top, part of your line may break, etc, but with the phalanx being able to overlap each other, suffering from no collision, they will destroy everything in it path.

Pikemen are very OP if used this way.

It's not that I can't win using phalanxes. It's the visual of it. The breaking and tearing...

[AgentGB]

It's not that I can't win using phalanxes. It's the visual of it. The breaking and tearing...

That kinda only happens when its individual units fighting, when you stack them like that, your bringing more spears to bare on a concentrated front, were ever it engages, it will hold and destroy, any men that aren't engaged along the line, although there comrades from the same unit, will continue to advance regardless chasing of skirmishers in the back between gaps of the line, while also causing a rout. There like zombies, but in a one on one fight, yeah the formation begins to break down quickly, due to the high death rate of vanilla.

Im more worried about this exploit, since its going past the realism of the first 5 rows of a phalanx being able to fight, instead you can make it between 10 - 15 potential spears, due to no collision of units when in the brace formation, meaning anything they engage like that, in that formation won't be able to stand up to it, unless facing other pikemen deployed the same way. If you increase the HP, of units, your see they hold there formation longer, and better, but in vanilla, things are happening alot quicker.

[karamazovmm]

That kinda only happens when its individual units fighting, when you stack them like that, your bringing more spears to bare on a concentrated front, were ever it engages, it will hold and destroy, any men that aren't engaged along the line, although there comrades from the same unit, will continue to advance regardless chasing of skirmishers in the back between gaps of the line, while also causing a rout. There like zombies, but in a one on one fight, yeah the formation begins to break down quickly, due to the high death rate of vanilla.

Im more worried about this exploit, since its going past the realism of the first 5 rows of a phalanx being able to fight, instead you can make it between 10 - 15 potential spears, due to no collision of units when in the brace formation, meaning anything they engage like that, in that formation won't be able to stand up to it, unless facing other pikemen deployed the same way. If you increase the HP, of units, your see they hold there formation longer, and better, but in vanilla, things are happening alot quicker.

have you only assaulted a city and only made a single point of entrance? put 6 phalanx in there and watch the enemy get mauled badly, its even more effectiveif you use artillery to snipe the units in the back

[karamazovmm]

That kinda only happens when its individual units fighting, when you stack them like that, your bringing more spears to bare on a concentrated front, were ever it engages, it will hold and destroy, any men that aren't engaged along the line, although there comrades from the same unit, will continue to advance regardless chasing of skirmishers in the back between gaps of the line, while also causing a rout. There like zombies, but in a one on one fight, yeah the formation begins to break down quickly, due to the high death rate of vanilla.

Im more worried about this exploit, since its going past the realism of the first 5 rows of a phalanx being able to fight, instead you can make it between 10 - 15 potential spears, due to no collision of units when in the brace formation, meaning anything they engage like that, in that formation won't be able to stand up to it, unless facing other pikemen deployed the same way. If you increase the HP, of units, your see they hold there formation longer, and better, but in vanilla, things are happening alot quicker.

have you only assaulted a city and only made a single point of entrance? put 6 phalanx in there and watch the enemy get mauled badly, its even more effectiveif you use artillery to snipe the units in the back