Pig flag/symbols?

[1Thaddeus]

Why do "most" faction have these? Even the Easterns have this.

Its really irritating to see this and is there a way to remove the pig on the flag?

Its disrespectfull (except if your celtic i guess).

[JJDXB]

It's not a pig, it's a boar. There's a difference, like there's a difference between an aurochs and a cow, or a wolf and a dog.

Other than that, I can see how it would be annoying if it was used all over the place, but I don't see why it's disrespectful?

[Humble Warrior]

It's not a pig, it's a boar. There's a difference, like there's a difference between an aurochs and a cow, or a wolf and a dog.

Other than that, I can see how it would be annoying if it was used all over the place, but I don't see why it's disrespectful?

I think the OP is talking religious-wise.

Well, OP, you can`t tell us all what is disrespectful and what is not. In some cultures, our religion believes that it`s not what goes in you, but what comes out of you that defiles you.

[AngryTitusPullo]

This thread give me an idea to make a kosher version Rome II mod (specifically for muslim and Jews). We will texture out the pigs and the boars from the game.

[1Thaddeus]

Im not talking religion wise.

Pig/boar isnt a good symbol (maybe for the Celts it does).

But why put such a thing in most tribes while it has nothing to do with them?

[Karnil Vark Khaitan]

But why put such a thing in most tribes while it has nothing to do with them?

because it was used. end thread

[Kraut]

Did I fail to notice that "most factions" have a boar/pig on their faction symbols?
Or am I victim to some funny graphics bug, which makes most of the symbols look like eagles, horses, elephants even, and many other symbols, but fails to display the many many pigs properly?

Someone please enlighten me?

[Humble Warrior]

Did I fail to notice that "most factions" have a boar/pig on their faction symbols?
Or am I victim to some funny graphics bug, which makes most of the symbols look like eagles, horses, elephants even, and many other symbols, but fails to display the many many pigs properly?

Someone please enlighten me?

To be honest I didn`t even notice anything, that`s why it seems such a small issue and I thought it must be religious. It just reminds me of working in a store once and we had some fluffy pig toys and some religious guy complained because it insulted his religion, apparently.

[Kraut]

It just reminds me of working in a store once and we had some fluffy pig toys and some religious guy complained because it insulted his religion, apparently.

Hey, that guy was ME! And I actually felt insulted because your fluffy pigs looked a lot like Joe Pesci, who is a divine being according to the Church of George Carlin which I happen to be a pious member of.
Just kidding, for the records.

However, I bothered to check the online Rome 2 campaing map for pig symbols, and guess what?
There is not a single pig/boar faction symbol east of Thracia, or south of Gibraltar, nor is there ANY faction which could only remotely be referred to as "eastern" with a "piggy" faction symbol. None. Nothing. Not a single one.
To be precise, I only saw two (2) faction symbols which I could surely recognize as boars. Your mileage may vary, though.

So, I might ask... what for holy pig´s sake is the OP about?

[AngryTitusPullo]

I think the OP means the army emblem. CA added additional emblems for patch 4.

[Karnil Vark Khaitan]

I think the OP means the army emblem. CA added additional emblems for patch 4.

hasn't had the chance to play that yet *sad face*

[Kraut]

I think the OP means the army emblem.

Oh, the little symbol on the flag pole top?
AFAIK, this can be changed with one single mouse click.
What, the flag bearer does not change it? Well, obviously he did not feel offended.

[AngryTitusPullo]

Oh, the little symbol on the flag pole top?
AFAIK, this can be changed with one single mouse click.
What, the flag bearer does not change it? Well, obviously he did not feel offended.

I don't know but I guess it is rereading the OP as I remember that with patch 4 (beta) my Parthian now be able to use Boar symbol.

Players can now customise the emblem on their Generals and Admirals banners. 32 new emblems have been added. When you select a General or Admiral on the Campaign map, and click the "Details" button, players can select a new emblem via a new user interface.

http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Total_War_ROME_II:_Patch_4

[SirRobin]

Islam wasn't even invented in the time of Roman Empire.. so nobody would be offended by pigs. Maybe the jews, but as far as I know, they are not a faction in the game.

[Carl Jung was right]

How is it disrespectful? AFAIK, certain cultures in that era revered the boar for its stubborn aggressiveness that befits a warrior society.

[Uncle Jugashvili]

The wild boar was a particularly prestigious symbol in Celtic cultures; even as early as the bronze age, we have found boar tusks in burials, and we have found a large number of boar figurines that were used in standards and as helmet crests; here are a few examples:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

(Boar figurine found in Bibracte, France)

(Boar standard found in Soulac-sur-Mer, France)

(Boar figurines found in the Hounslow mound, UK)

It was also widely used in Carnyces (Celtic war trumpets) for the head piece:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

(Tintignac Carnyx)

(Deskford Carnyx)

(Scene with carnyx players, from the Gundestrup Cauldron)

Finally, it was also often used on Celtic, and particularly Gallic coinage:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

(Gallic bronze coin with a boar and the inscription AOYE, struck by the Cavares)

(Gallic coin bearing the inscription DVBNOREX, representing a man with a helmet and a boar standard)

(Gallic coin with a cavalryman bearing a boar standard, inscription illegible)

(Gallic coin with the inscription DUBNOREIX, with a man in chainmail carrying a carnyx and boar standard in his right hand)

Boar emblems such as these have been found from the British Isles to the Balkans. Theories range from them being a rempresentation of strength and courage to it being the companion animal or avatar of a Celtic deity.

[Kraut]

Theories range from them being a rempresentation of strength and courage to it being the companion animal or avatar of a Celtic deity.

For the Gauls of modern France, the theory is more about "being delicious".

[Faris ad Din]

DUH

NOT JUST CELTS.

I found some info on Wikipedia but as some people find the sources on that site questionable at best, I went to some more "academic" source.

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...Militaria.html

SIGNA MILITA′RIA (σημεῖα, σημαίαι), military ensigns or standards. The most ancient standard employed by the Romans is said to have been a handful of straw fixed to the top of a spear or pole. Hence the company of soldiers, belonging to it, was called Manipulus [Exercitus, p500B.] The bundle of hay or fern was soon succeeded by the figures of animals, of which Pliny (H. N. X.4, s5) enumerates five, viz. the eagle, the wolf, the minotaur (Festus, s.v. Minotaur.), the horse, and the boar. In the second consulship of Marius, B.C. 104, the four quadrupeds were entirely laid aside as standards, the eagle being alone retained. It was made of silver, or bronze, and with expanded wings, but was probably of a small size, since a standard-bearer (signifer) under Julius Caesar is said in circumstances of danger to have wrenched the eagle from its staff and concealed it in the folds of his girdle (Flor. IV.12).

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

From the Wikipedia article linked below on the wild boar:

"At least three Roman Legions are known to have had a boar as their emblems: Legio I Italica, Legio X Fretensis and Legio XX Valeria Victrix."

Holy crap, the FIRST legion by number, THE Legio I Italica had the boar as its emblem? I'll have to go back into the campaign and change that proud eagle to the rough and earthy boar until later in the campaign when I may change what I like all to aquilae.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

You're also calling it a PIG... that's pretty inaccurate as other people in this thread have mentioned, like calling a WOLF a simple puny dog or a mountain lion/puma or jaguar a cute little house cat. As an aside, from one Daoist scholar and priest, an alternate translation for the general term for a Chinese astrological sign oft translated as "pig" is "boar," as "pigs" are considered just food animals in China, compared to the vital and powerful boar. For all you boarn in the appropriate lunar years approximately 1983, 1971, 1959, 1947, et cetera... (a typo there for "born," since I was typing the word "boar" so many times, but I decided to leave it as a cheesy pun. )

Its really irritating to see this and is there a way to remove the pig on the flag?

Its disrespectfull (except if your celtic i guess).

(disrespectuL with one "L," and It's with an apostrophe. Was just irritating me too.)

Pig/boar isnt a good symbol (maybe for the Celts it does).

FIE! An insult to the Romans! Deny the Romans the historically-accurate boar, too?

Go try hunting/fighting with a wild boar. You will see just how incredibly dangerous and strong and aggressive those huge beasts are.


EDIT: I just can't seem to get the YouTube embedding to work after multiple tries. Here's the link, relevant part time-linked to 10:03:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2VnoDgCf2E#t=10m03s

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

King Robert Baratheon: "I want the funeral feast to be the biggest that the kingdoms ever saw. And I want everyone to taste the boar that got me."
"King Robert Baratheon... murdered by a pig!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_boar

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Generally speaking, native Eurasian boars follow Bergmann's rule, with smaller boars nearer the tropics and larger, smaller-eared boars in the North of their range. Mature sows from Southeast Asia and southern India may weigh as little as 44 kg (97 lb).^[10] The Manchurian wild boar (S. s. ussuricus), the largest subspecies typically weighs between 70 and 180 kg (150 and 400 lb).^[12] In central Italy, their weight usually ranges from 80 to 100 kg (180 to 220 lb) while boars shot in Tuscany have been recorded to weigh up to 150 kg (331 lb). An unusually large French specimen shot in Negremont forest in Ardenne in 1999 weighed 227 kg (550 lb). Carpathian boars have been recorded to reach weights of 200 kg (441 lb). Romanian and Russian boars can reach weights of 300 kg (661 lb), while unconfirmed giants reported in early Russian hunting journals have reportedly weighed up to 320 kg (710 lb).^[9][10] Adult males develop tusks, continuously growing teeth that protrude from the mouth, from their upper and lower canine teeth. These serve as weapons and tools. The upper tusks are bent upwards in males, and are regularly ground against the lower ones to produce sharp edges. The tusks normally measure about 6 cm (2.4 in), in exceptional cases even 12 cm (4.7 in). Females also have sharp canines, but they are smaller, and not protruding like the males' tusks.^[13][14] Tigers hunt boars, but avoid tackling mature male boars. In many cases, boars have gored tigers to death in self-defense.^[7] Wild boars can be dangerous to humans, especially when they have piglets.


When dealing aggressively with a human, boars will charge at them. Sometimes, these may be bluff charges but, in other cases, violent contact will be made. While the impact of the large, hard-skulled head may cause considerable damage itself, most damage is inflicted by the boar's tusk. When ramming into a person, the boar will slash the tusks upwards, creating sizeable open lacerations on the skin. Due to the height of the boar relative to a human, most wounds are inflicted to the upper legs. Some attacks are provoked, such as when hunters wound a boar which then counterattacks. Male boars become most aggressive during the mating season and may charge at humans at such times. Occasionally, female boars will attack if they feel their piglets are threatened, especially if a human physically comes between them and their young. Although a majority of boar attack victims recover with medical treatment, fatalities do occasionally occur.

In Medieval hunting the boar, like the hart, was a 'beast of venery', the most prestigious form of quarry. It was normally hunted by being harboured, or found by a 'limer', or bloodhound handled on a leash, before the pack of hounds was released to pursue it on its hot scent. In The poem Sir Gawain and the Green Knight^[49] a boar hunt is described, which depicts how dangerous the boar could be to the pack hounds, or raches, which hunted it.^[50] Medieval hunters used special boar spears (along with polearms and various swords) to hunt wild boar. The distinguishing characteristic of the boar spear is a wide cross guard behind the spearhead to prevent the boar from charging up the haft and goring the spearman.
The ancient Lowland Scottish Clan Swinton is said to have to have acquired the name Swinton for their bravery and clearing their area of wild boar. The chief's coat of arms and the clan crest allude to this legend, as is the name of the village of Swinewood in the county of Berwick which was granted to them in the 11th century.^{[citation needed]}
Wild boar are still occasionally hunted, especially where not legally protected. The minimum safe calibre for shooting wild boar is generally considered to be .243 Winchester with 85 grain or heavier expanding projectiles, with larger calibres being recommended. Repeating action shotguns loaded with solid shot can also be used. Wild boar are strong, solidly built animals with sharp tusks and a willingness to defend themselves vigorously.^[51] Boar are known to charge the hunter after a missed shot or a wound that is not immediately lethal; because of this, some of the earliest bayonets were actually used by boar hunters rather than military forces.^[52][53]

(Hahaha... we know a 'Swinton'...)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

http://cubiclebot.com/pictures/tilda...rifying-image/

In case you still don't recognize her, she's the "Witch" from the new "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe."

But why put such a thing in most tribes while it has nothing to do with them?

This I may agree with for regions of the Rome 2 world where boar were not revered as symbols of ferocity and strength, or where they just... wait a second...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Western races (scrofa group)

• Common wild boar Sus scrofa scrofa: The most common and most widespread subspecies, its original distribution ranges from France to European Russia. It has been introduced in Sweden, Norway, the US and Canada.^[9]
• Iberian wild boar Sus scrofa baeticus: A small subspecies present in the southwestern Iberian Peninsula.^[9] Probably a junior synonym of S. s. meridionalis.^[37]
• Castillian wild boar Sus scrofa castilianus: Larger than S. s. baeticus, it inhabits northern Spain.^[9] Probably a junior synonym of S. s. scrofa.^[37]
• Sardinian wild boar Sus scrofa meridionalis: A small, almost maneless subspecies from Corsica, Sardinia and Andalusia.^[38] Possibly extinct now in its island range.^{[citation needed]}
• Italian wild boar Sus scrofa majori: A subspecies smaller than S. s. scrofa with a higher and wider skull. It occurs in central and southern Italy. Since the 1950s, it has hybridised extensively with introduced S. s. scrofa populations.^[9]
• Sus scrofa attila: A very large, long-maned, yellowish subspecies from eastern Europe to Kazakhstan, northern Caucasus and Iran.^[38]
• Barbary wild boar Sus scrofa algira: Maghreb in Africa. Closely related to, and sometimes considered a junior synonym of, S. s. scrofa, but smaller and with proportionally longer tusks.^[2] Now quite rare.^{[citation needed]}
• Sus scrofa lybica: A small, pale and almost maneless subspecies from Caucasus to the Nile Delta, Turkey and the Balkans.^[38] Possibly extinct now.^{[citation needed]}
• Sus scrofa sennaarensis: From Egypt and northern Sudan. Former presence in these countries, where became extinct around 1900, is linked to ancient introductions by man, and S. s. sennaarensis is probably a junior synonym of S. s. scrofa.^[2][37] "Wild boars" now present in Sudan are derived from domestic pigs.^[2]
• Sus scrofa nigripes: A light-coloured subspecies with dark legs from Tianshan Mountains, Central Asia.^[38]

Indian races (cristatus group)


Wild boars (Sus scrofa affinis) in Sri Lanka



Indian wild boar (Sus scrofa cristatus) at Ranthambore National Park

• Indian wild boar Sus scrofa cristatus: A long-maned subspecies with a coat that is brindled black unlike S. s. davidi.^[38] More lightly built than European boar. Its head is larger and more pointed than that of the European boar, and its ears smaller and more pointed.^[39] The plane of the forehead straight, while it is concave in the European.^[39] Occurs from the Himalayas south to central India and east to Indochina (north of the Kra Isthmus).^[38]
• Sus scrofa affinis: This subspecies is smaller than S. s. cristatus and found in southern India and Sri Lanka.^[38] Validity questionable.^[37]
• Sus scrofa davidi: A small, long-maned and light brown subspecies from eastern Iran to Gujarat; perhaps north to Tajikistan.^[38]

Lessee... Iberian, Barbary/Maghreb, Nile Delta, Turkey, Caucasus, Iran, Tajikistan...

In Hindu religion:

In Hindu mythology, the third Avatar of Vishnu was Varaha, a boar.

Time period... oh dang...

Varaha was originally described as a form of Brahma, but later on was crystallized as the avatar of Vishnu.^[1] The earliest Varaha images are found in Mathura, dating to the 1st and 2nd century CE.^[1]

(Which probably means that the actual mythology by oral tradition and other less-permanent art depictions predates that.)

most tribes ... nothing to do with them?

May merit a second thought. That was with just 10 minutes of Google search.

[SirRobin]

Impressive amounts of information being "boar to bear" in this thread.. I myself am not at all boar'd