So... pike + sword + melee cavalry = the golden standard?

[Ecthelion]

I've been working a lot of testing in custom battles and it seems that there's only a few classes of units worth their cost:

1. Pike infantry
   
2. Sword infantry
   
3. Heavy/light melee cavalry (preferably spear armed)

That's it. Armies made up of these three and only these three perform very well, assuming the enemy is using a relatively balanced force with emphasis on heavy infantry (so not against Parthia).

Pikes are basically the end all be all when it comes to anti-heavy infantry. Properly employed and supported, they will tear through any non-pike melee infantry. Just try a long levy pike line against Oathsworn with Brace on. The larger the unit sizes, the more pikes dominate.
You should avoid pike on pike confrontations, which is really the only situation where the elite pikes become justifiable. Which is why I use basic pike units to save on cost

Mix in swordsmen at a 1 to 1 ratio with the pikes and deploy them behind the pikes. As gaps open in your phalanx, pour in your sword reserves. With sword units, it does pay to have the best, unlike with pikes. But anything above the Thorax Swords level is enough usually as long as your pikes deal with the toughest enemies.

Why melee over shock cavalry like cataphracts? Cause the charge bonus is a lie. It simply doesn't seem to make a difference. The only factors that matter for a charge:

1. Speed
2. Wedge formation, unit cohesion
3. Unit mass

But the melee superiority of melee cavalry is a real thing. Even cataphracts will get destroyed by basic heavy melee cavalry like Roman Aux Cavalry (assuming no charge).

[acm_no1]

is your conclusion based on Single Player or Multi Player?

because Shock cavs are much better now, they destroy infantry in seconds

their role is to charge, pull out then charge again. I dont get the point why you assume no charge and they got killed by Aux Cavalry. They are named shock cavalry for a reason.

Cataphracts destroy everything in my Parthia campaign, even pike phalanx

[craziii]

pikes are worthless online vs smart human players. they are easily disrupted and killed off.

elite sword infantry should dominate right? just like how samurais dominate shogun battles. I don't see anything wrong here. from the cries on the forum, preatorian guards are now one of the worst ones.

thought patch 4 made shock cavalry viable? a tip, use the cavalry mod in the mods forum I think it isn't compatible with patch 4 just like alot of the mods.

[vietanh797]

The only reason I choose melee cavalry is because the enemy have too many missile units where a shock cavalry will get kill if I try to use it charging those guys.
Shock cavalry is better when facing barbarian or hellenic factions. Eastern and Nomadic factions are much more troubllesome

[Heinz Guderian]

The only reason I choose melee cavalry is because the enemy have too many missile units where a shock cavalry will get kill if I try to use it charging those guys.
Shock cavalry is better when facing barbarian or hellenic factions. Eastern and Nomadic factions are much more troubllesome

Even though the stats are a bit rubbish, Light Cavalry is great against skirmishers both foot and horse. Also can sweep up over 500 men in a rout easy.

[vietanh797]

I have seen my Thessalian cavalry get eliminated by a few unit of acher in patch 3 so now I use a lot of melee cav when I go attack any eastern/nomandic factions

[Heinz Guderian]

I have seen my Thessalian cavalry get eliminated by a few unit of acher in patch 3 so now I use a lot of melee cav when I go attack any eastern/nomandic factions

in Rome 2, speed makes a big difference when being targetted by ranged units. Light cav will take much fewer casualties than Thess cav because they will be moving faster. They are quick enough to charge in and disrupt a skirmisher line and then gtfo before the enemy spears move in. That one charge will save your infantry about 100 casualties from enemy slinger/archer fire later.

[Ecthelion]

Shock cavalry was buffed in Patch 4 and 3, yes, but only in terms of how many casualties they take when pulling out. And they still don't pull out properly (there is a trick to this: order them to attack another unit in the direction of pull out and they will pull out much faster).

But they're not any deadlier in a charge. People think that way cause they only consider cataphracts, which have no melee version. And the reason why cataphracts are so devastating is due to their "Super Heavy" unit mass, not their charge bonus. And you can engage them with lighter melee cavalry by intercepting them as they charge, since they're slow.

Try this test:

Companion Apis cavalry charges hoplites
Companion cavalry charges hoplites

Repeat the charges untill you break the unit, pause to count the casualties after each charge.

There's basically no difference in the casualty pattern.

And yes, pikes are not as useful in multiplayer, too much micro, and too slow. But the game balance is too messed up now for good multiplayer.

[crunchyfrog]

I haven't tried with melee cavalry, but my Macedonian shock cavalry can annihilate infantry squads in one charge

[vietanh797]

If I not mistaken light cav only available for Pontus and Egypt

[neoptolemos]

Macedon also has light cavalry. So far my elit phalanges didn't have a significant problem in crushing enemies except maybe elite swordsmen but you have to be very careful not to expose the flanks of the phalanx,