Useless Hoplites

[The_Utopian]

Can someone here explain purpose of hoplites? Especially Spartan Heroes and Royal Spartans. I mean... They can't counter anything exept cavalry, but even chepest pikemen can deal with cavalry better than they are. Plus they have useless abilities.

So please, someone explain to me, what was an idea behind making them so weak.

[Micromoron]

Well, if they fix the hoplite phalanx, hoplites will be good again, but IMO pikes own everything
I can only suggest radious battle mod, he balanced all units

[Crymson]

Well, if they fix the hoplite phalanx, hoplites will be good again, but IMO pikes own everything
I can only suggest radious battle mod, he balanced all units

The AI can and will still run its soldiers directly through your pike phalanxes. Apparently a forest of sharp, pointy objects is no deterrent to its supersoldiers.

[vietanh797]

Patch 4 they almost invincible, phalanx ability for hoplite +50% defend

In patch 3 and before they will held the enemies back until they are all exhausted then start to kill them one by one. Using hoplite -> prolong fighting the longer the battle the better chance for you to win it since hoplite have great stamina and very high defend skill. If you use them right 4 unit of hoplite attack a city can kill 200-300 legionary each by rotate them into fight and force the Legionary always fighting non stop. Just make sure you not doing to face gladiator or berserker. Even the oathsworn not able to best the rotate fighting.

Current play patch 4 they are a big trouble if you facing them without slinger or arty

[The_Utopian]

I have already 4 patch, but it didn't changed anything while I was testing units with my friend. Legionary win in 1vs1 fight every time, because they have a good abilities. Same thing with every other sword unit. Whether I am in phalanx mode or not they just win every time, especially oatshworn. They are killing Noble Spartans without loosing almost anyone, plus they have overpowered abilities, which make them the best infantry unit after pikes(sarissas).

What a brilliant mind gave to hoplites ability to run faster insted of giving some combat ability?

[The_Utopian]

I have already 4 patch, but it didn't changed anything while I was testing units with my friend. Legionary win in 1vs1 fight every time, because they have a good abilities. Same thing with every other sword unit. Whether I am in phalanx mode or not they just win every time, especially oatshworn. They are killing Noble Spartans without loosing almost anyone, plus they have overpowered abilities, which make them the best infantry unit after pikes(sarissas).

What a brilliant mind gave to hoplites ability to run faster insted of giving some combat ability?

[Osseon]

What a brilliant mind gave to hoplites ability to run faster insted of giving some combat ability?

Hey, did you know if you use the ability that runs faster, after about 20 seconds it will take your men from FRESH to EXHAUSTED. STOP USING THIS ABILITY.
Its a use in case of emergency ability, once your hoplites are exhausted they will lose like 50% of their combat effectiveness. Stop using it seriously and watch how much better hoplites are.

[The_Utopian]

Hey, did you know if you use the ability that runs faster, after about 20 seconds it will take your men from FRESH to EXHAUSTED. STOP USING THIS ABILITY.
Its a use in case of emergency ability, once your hoplites are exhausted they will lose like 50% of their combat effectiveness. Stop using it seriously and watch how much better hoplites are.

Do you really tought that I was using this useless ability? That's why I said with sarcasm. That this ability is just useless for hoplites.

[acm_no1]

Patch 4 they almost invincible, phalanx ability for hoplite +50% defend

In patch 3 and before they will held the enemies back until they are all exhausted then start to kill them one by one. Using hoplite -> prolong fighting the longer the battle the better chance for you to win it since hoplite have great stamina and very high defend skill. If you use them right 4 unit of hoplite attack a city can kill 200-300 legionary each by rotate them into fight and force the Legionary always fighting non stop. Just make sure you not doing to face gladiator or berserker. Even the oathsworn not able to best the rotate fighting.

Current play patch 4 they are a big trouble if you facing them without slinger or arty

pretty much this

I only play on Legendary and Hoplite is really really powerful, they can even hold OATHSWORN, Praetorian sucks at this

activating phalanx gives you 50% defense skill, which make your Hoplites solid wall, nothing can go through them, even Pikemen get owned when there's too many enemies but Hoplite doesn't.

[Praetorian349]

Patch 4 they almost invincible, phalanx ability for hoplite +50% defend

In patch 3 and before they will held the enemies back until they are all exhausted then start to kill them one by one. Using hoplite -> prolong fighting the longer the battle the better chance for you to win it since hoplite have great stamina and very high defend skill. If you use them right 4 unit of hoplite attack a city can kill 200-300 legionary each by rotate them into fight and force the Legionary always fighting non stop. Just make sure you not doing to face gladiator or berserker. Even the oathsworn not able to best the rotate fighting.

Current play patch 4 they are a big trouble if you facing them without slinger or arty

Trying to outlast legionaries, stamina-wise, with Hoplites? A silly move

[acm_no1]

Trying to outlast legionaries, stamina-wise, with Hoplites?

actually in game, yes, Hoplites outmatches any legionaries or Praetorian stamina-wise.

[vonDuus]

Hoplites outlast legionaries. The key word is "rotation". Perhaps you should learn how to read other peoples posts?

[Praetorian349]

Hoplites outlast legionaries. The key word is "rotation". Perhaps you should learn how to read other peoples posts?

Hoplites do not outlast legionaries. Don't make such broad generalisations when you don't include the "key word" in your own sentence.

Hoplites were not commonly known for rotation as opposed to legionaries, anyways. You are talking about player decisions, not unit aptitude.

[vietanh797]

Hoplites do not outlast legionaries. Don't make such broad generalisations when you don't include the "key word" in your own sentence.

Hoplites were not commonly known for rotation as opposed to legionaries, anyways. You are talking about player decisions, not unit aptitude.

We are talking about the game not real life. People ask that why this unit so useless and I just tell them how to use that unit effective.

[daelin4]

Organized melee tactics don't really work in Warscape because the engine still uses 1-v-1 animations. This is what makes blobbing particularly frustrating, because warfare in this time and theatre were not based on such tactics. And no, feudal Japan was not really portrayed well.

What happens in places like sieges is that 1-v-1 animations dictates everything, but if a group of men are cramming themselves through a particular part of an enemy formation, the game literally has no other recourse but for the men who are not engaged to go through.

And the real kicker is that even if there are men not already engaged in 1-v-1 animations, they don't "seek" opponents to fight, or even try to keep walking through: the game still relies commands and movement on a unit-wide basis, so you'll find soldiers either standing there waiting for the rest of the unit to move again, or outlier troops to go back into the fray because a sizable portion (or sometimes just a few men) were attacked by the enemy, disrupting your original commands and making that cavalry unit to turn back on that horde of spearmen.

And FFS, it's not like they HAD this problem before either, you' think these things they'd have already figured out. I honestly don;t even bother with tactics in paces like sieges, I just counter-blob. In many cases you will just not have enough men so they still march past you. The only good thing about it is once their general dies, the rest just Shatters...and since CHASING units is also horribly broken (routing units can run through places your own men cannot be positioned in) I don't bother with that phase of battle mode either.

God, didn't they say they waned to minimize auto-resolve? That's all I want to do in this game.

[mcantu]

please state what battle difficulty level you are using when comparing units. all unit comparison/testing should be done on Normal

[The_Utopian]

please state what battle difficulty level you are using when comparing units. all unit comparison/testing should be done on Normal

Well, most of the units we tested with my friend online, and no, on normal your units are stronger than AI's units. Try to test same units 1 vs 1 few times.

[vietanh797]

Using that ability only when you are marching and having time to spent so your hoplite can rest after march. Using it in middle of battle is suicide. I only play in Very Hard Campaign with battle difficult set at Legendary but I don't think Rome 2 give AI troops any buff in battle at all so it doesn't really a matter. And like I said you have to rotate your units and always have a fresh hoplite to face the enemies. It is stupid to use a Hoplite to face a late unit like Oathsworn in a 1 vs 1, you can never win if you think like that.

Hoplite isn't super unit and Oathsworn are currently one of the best unit in game. You have to learn what is the strong point of your units and use it to take advantage in battlefield. A battle is never 1 vs 1, Hoplite is similar to a pikeman unit, good at keeping enemies busy until you able to flank them, as an assault troops they aren't good but they can wear down enemies with the super stamina and defend skill. When the enemies tired or exhausted they start to kill and they kill a lot of them. I did have battle where one of my Spartan hoplite unit kill over 600 enemies. (took me 47 minutes to complete that battle, really a long one)

In open field battle they are a flexible force that you can position at flank to counter the enemy cavalry, because they are faster and better in defend they can hold themselves even if the enemies able to hit their back. Your pikeman will rout very fast when their back took hit.You should also reserved one hoplite behind the pike line since if something stupid happen to the pike line you can use that hoplite to fill the gap and trust me that gap never open again till you win or lose the battle.

btw after patch 4 I notice that Spartan hoplite now stronger than normal hoplite. It is great because before patch 4 they are weaker while being cheaper than normal hoplite. May be I should start another Sparta Campaign.

[The_Utopian]

Using that ability only when you are marching and having time to spent so your hoplite can rest after march. Using it in middle of battle is suicide. I only play in Very Hard Campaign with battle difficult set at Legendary but I don't think Rome 2 give AI troops any buff in battle at all so it doesn't really a matter. And like I said you have to rotate your units and always have a fresh hoplite to face the enemies. It is stupid to use a Hoplite to face a late unit like Oathsworn in a 1 vs 1, you can never win if you think like that.

Hoplite isn't super unit and Oathsworn are currently one of the best unit in game. You have to learn what is the strong point of your units and use it to take advantage in battlefield. A battle is never 1 vs 1, Hoplite is similar to a pikeman unit, good at keeping enemies busy until you able to flank them, as an assault troops they aren't good but they can wear down enemies with the super stamina and defend skill. When the enemies tired or exhausted they start to kill and they kill a lot of them. I did have battle where one of my Spartan hoplite unit kill over 600 enemies. (took me 47 minutes to complete that battle, really a long one)

In open field battle they are a flexible force that you can position at flank to counter the enemy cavalry, because they are faster and better in defend they can hold themselves even if the enemies able to hit their back. Your pikeman will rout very fast when their back took hit.You should also reserved one hoplite behind the pike line since if something stupid happen to the pike line you can use that hoplite to fill the gap and trust me that gap never open again till you win or lose the battle.

btw after patch 4 I notice that Spartan hoplite now stronger than normal hoplite. It is great because before patch 4 they are weaker while being cheaper than normal hoplite. May be I should start another Sparta Campaign.

That's the thing, that I can't see where is Hoplites strong points? In defence pikeman are much stronger. In attack same thing and they are twice cheaper. Only morale is better, but only spartans has it. But thanks for the tip that I should have some hoplites on pikeman's back. And yes, with patch 4 they became stronger, thanks to CA, they finally did that, but don't forget about the limit of your forces in campaingn that spartans has.

Other thing is for example that spartans loose on every position except amount and quality of hoplites to fractions like Macedonia. They has better cav, better pike, better range units, so it looks like there is no counter.

[crzyrndm]

That's the thing, that I can't see where is Hoplites strong points? In defence pikeman are much stronger. In attack same thing and they are twice cheaper.

Flexibility, staying power, and armour. That is their advantage over pikes. They may not win fights on their own, but they just keep on trucking long after other units would have been annihilated.

Not all units are created equal. Head on, pike phalanx should wreck everything, pretty much independent of quality. Hoplites are much more of an anvil, they lack any significant attacking power but they last far longer than every other unit in a melee (and most under missile fire). Royal Spartans (phalanx not activated) can go toe to toe with Hellenic Royal Guard (elite pikes) for the best part of 5 minutes, probably more like 6-7 if the AI would use phalanx. A high end sword unit will only stand for ~3 minutes.

elite spears don't get a bonus vs cavalry at the moment according to Jack. Another bug.

Fixed under patch 4 beta