Roman Navy

**mrartist** · October 05, 2013, 03:23 PM

I'm not sure where to post this but I'm sure the staff will move it if needed. When I build military warf in Brundesium at lvl 3 or above and go to recruit Triarii assault ships I get a message you already have too many of this unit. I didn't have any of that unit. I also get the same message for each lvl of legionary ship. But when I played as Sparta the game let me recruit Spartan assault ships at the warf even though I had max Spartan hoplites in my armies. I even built a lvl 3 barracks there just in case it was that still not allowed to recruit that roman assault ship unit/units. So I'm asking is this a bug or am I missing something about a game play mechanic? O I had every Naval development as well. Thanks in advance for any correct answere.

**DeValiere** · October 05, 2013, 04:32 PM

I think it MIGHT have something to do with unit limits somehwere in the tables - haven't felt the need to mod a TW game since M2TW. Am starting to get back into it now. As I'm currently playing a Rome campaign I'll mess around with the unit limit stats once I get a lvl 3 naval dock and see if I can shake something loose - although I'm sure there are much more qualified members here that could answer this properly. Certainly, it looks like this is where the issue is though. But yeah, I've had the same problems recruiting these units too... Pain in the you know where!

**NavyBee** · October 05, 2013, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by DeValiere

I think it MIGHT have something to do with unit limits somehwere in the tables [...]

This would be my guess as well. Some naval unit types are considered potential "flagship" types and can only be recruited once per navy. If an Admiral already uses the unit type for his flag squadron, you may not recruit another unit for that navy.

**wulfgar610** · October 06, 2013, 07:53 AM

Originally Posted by NavyBee

This would be my guess as well. Some naval unit types are considered potential "flagship" types and can only be recruited once per navy. If an Admiral already uses the unit type for his flag squadron, you may not recruit another unit for that navy.

No, the Admirals flagship and the Assault Hexareme are different entries in the DB tables. The quantity limitation on Tower Hexaremes is the number of Admirals that use them. Another thing is all the Auxiliary Assault biremes are incorrectly given the high upkeep of mercenaries.

**NavyBee** · October 06, 2013, 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by wulfgar610

No, the Admirals flagship and the Assault Hexareme are different entries in the DB tables. The quantity limitation on Tower Hexaremes is the number of Admirals that use them. Another thing is all the Auxiliary Assault biremes are incorrectly given the high upkeep of mercenaries.

I stand corrected.

Is the quantity limitation set in "campaigncap" in the DB?

**wulfgar610** · October 06, 2013, 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by NavyBee

I stand corrected.

Is the quantity limitation set in "campaigncap" in the DB?

I haven't looked in Rome2. But since it is a Warscape game I imagine the DB is similar. There's column in the DB for unit caps typically use for elite. Typically there's a separate entry for a ship recruited by an Admiral and even when the exact same ship is for general recruitment.

If the Naysayers want some proof of CA tardiness, well this in certainly a black mark. Along with every auxiliary ship being mistakenly priced with the upkeep of a mercenary.

Update.

Ok, I downloaded the stuff and had a look.

Yes, in main_units there's a campaign cap. Not for the actual ship, but rather the ship crew. In this regard Rome2 is a new ball game because it has a dismountable fighting crew. So the horizontal column counts the various units having either a naval transport or specialized naval fighting ship as the "mount". As such there is no specific limit on the ships but rather a limit on the units that crew them.

"0" is the default for "no limit". The Crews which mount a Roman six have a "1", so I guess this is the limitation. Really the campaign cap should be 10, 20 or whatever is reasonable. That's my guess from a simple perusal. Or the problem might be something different, it seems odd that if the cap is "1" then you should have been able to recruit at least one. Unless of course "1" is a special code for Admirals ship crews.

**mrartist** · October 05, 2013, 10:53 PM

Thanks for answereing and looking into this. Basicly if the lvl 3 and above warf not naval dock can't recruit the triarii assault ships, legionary elites assault ships and those are only for commanders then all they can recruit is the ballista ships the scorpion ships the catapault ships and velites ships. Making them very vulnerable to fleets with assault ships from that warf. I think the docks do let me recruit the hastate assault ships and the legionary assault ships as I recall. So I have to keep the strategy of getting some missile ships from the warf the sending the fleet to a dock for the assault ships. Np on that just a play adjustment. I think you are both right on this as I think about it now. Just that other cultures can do it all at one port type. Thanks again Total War mates.

**DeValiere** · October 05, 2013, 11:36 PM

OK, I've done a little mod for this and it is working so far for lvl 3 dock (will allow unlocked Veteran Legionaries):

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...3#post13299163

Still Beta as not sure if it will be OK once lvl 4 dock is built.

Been a long time since I did this level of modding so hope it works OK for you

**JaM** · October 06, 2013, 06:50 AM

some units are limited, and if they are also a part of garisons they reduce max recruitable number..

**mrartist** · October 06, 2013, 09:31 AM

Nice work! I don't know enough about programing to attempt to open the files or attempt even a soft mod but I trusted if anyone could it would be here on these boards. Maybe we could occasionally continue to explore this and see if it was intended or if it is a small item CA should address in one of the patches. The fact that the Spartans, Athens, (haven't played Epirus yet) and the Macedonians can build it all at one military warf evolution indicated possibly a small glitch here. Set the sea and anchor detail, make preparations to get underway and remember Ben Hur might be one of the rowers on a roman admiral's ship.

**wulfgar610** · October 06, 2013, 09:49 AM

It's easy enough, you simply become familiar with the tool in the mod section "pack file manager". I did it with Nappy, but can't be bothered unless I really do wish to mod Rome2. Eventually you bring up a spread sheet with columns. One column will deal with the unit limits, my guess is there is a zero by mistake rather than a number like ten.

My guess is staff who are unfamiliar with war-games have been assigned to the task.

**YoungGrognard** · October 06, 2013, 06:38 PM

Roman navy is missing the corvus quinquireme

It was clearly supposed to be in the game, the unit roster has a hole in it where the corvus quinquireme should be, it was the main vessel used against carthage to win the punic wars

They cut it because they failed to implement it properly, that's what I'm guessing. So what else is new with this game.

**wulfgar610** · October 06, 2013, 06:58 PM

The corvus quinquereme was only used in one battle with Carthage when the Romans were inexperienced at conventional Naval warfare maneuver. It was abandoned because it made the ship top heavy. It was a surprise tactic that wouldn't work a second time.

**DeValiere** · October 07, 2013, 04:32 PM

Yeah, I just zeroed the values to get the ships unlocked - that column is for limiting units - such as the Spartan Hoplites / Pikemen etc. The ship types that were restricted didn't seem to clash with the Admiral types available, which was even odder. At least you can see which units are for navy and which are not so that helps.

I also think that maybe this isn't isolated to Roman factions either. If I strike it with other factions I'll fix those too... But must agree, another CA fail.

It was worth fixing tho as I see fleets as being a supporting force to land armies in addition to their other functions, thus the need to recruit infantry type assualt ships is crucial to a campaign around the Mediterranean theater.

At any rate, hopefully a future patch might put this right if we're lucky...

**NavyBee** · October 07, 2013, 08:38 PM

The campaigncap on capital ships exists for all "civilised" cultures. I tried it with Carthage and could recruit one capital ship of each type per fleet, admirals' units counted in.

Personally, I prefer to leave the campaigncaps untouched. I do not remember where, but i read they were intentional. From a historical perspective and from a game balance perspective i would agree.

**wulfgar610** · October 07, 2013, 06:08 PM

Aligned ship unit upkeep costs with land units – made mercenary ships more expensive and non-mercenary ships cheaper.

This is an early patch note. It leaves me with the impression that CA sent staff with no background in wargaming to make corrections. The fact that simply rectified issues remain standing is pretty lame performance for CA.

There's many issues with Rome2 that are complex and don't have easy answers. However this one does.