The original link is here:
http://forums.totalwar.com/showthrea...-Patch-4-notes
A few people seem to be confirming the fix .... which sure feels good my little legions!
Civis
Someone on the official forum is reporting that Testudo's have been fixed, AP values rectified
The original link is here:
http://forums.totalwar.com/showthrea...-Patch-4-notes
A few people seem to be confirming the fix .... which sure feels good my little legions!
Re: Someone on the official forum is reporting that Testudo's have been fixed, AP values rectified
To be complete honest. I dont think nerfing the ranged units that hard is very wise. For me they didn´t felt that useful before, now this issue seems to become even bigger. CA should orientate on gameplay balance and not on all the whiners who want their OP legions become even more OP.
How about testudo only able to use in slow moving and not with running? And penalties to melee fighting and fatigue?
In the end there will be no reason to not use the Testudo all the damn time...
Foederatus
Re: Someone on the official forum is reporting that Testudo's have been fixed, AP values rectified
A read somewhere that (on average) ranged weapons always made up around 70% of the kills (But honestly, I shouldn't believe everything I read).Originally Posted by BigEl_nobody
I don't know how true that is, but I do agree that nerfing ranged units too hard is a bad idea.
Re: Someone on the official forum is reporting that Testudo's have been fixed, AP values rectified
Well that seems more to be because the AI (and myself) use quite a large number of missile units, which of course points towards over-use of certain unit types and not said over-used unit types having OP stats. But of course if THAT is true and CA rectified stats due to this fact, they're pretty stupid in fixing games.
I mean they tend to use a LOT of missile units. Lots of missile units usually = lots of missile kills. Correlation to imbalanced stats = 0
Last edited by daelin4; October 05, 2013 at 02:17 AM.
Re: Someone on the official forum is reporting that Testudo's have been fixed, AP values rectified
BigEl_nobody: Did they nerf ranged units or buff the testudo? Ranged units already work really weird, the first voley never kills anybody then they start dropping like flies.
Ubí latrína est
Re: Someone on the official forum is reporting that Testudo's have been fixed, AP values rectified
the first voley should not kill much people, that is not its primary intent against shielded units. javelins were useful to disable the shields it stuck in, making it heavy and hard to wield.
obviously with the shields disabled people start dropping like flies.
Hr. Alf han hugg til han var mod, Han sto i femten Ridderes Blod; Så tog han alle de Kogger ni Og sejlede dermed til Norge fri. Og der kom tidende til Rostock ind, Der blegned saa mangen Rosenkind. Der græd Enker og der græd Børn, Dem hadde gjort fattig den skadelige Ørn.
Anders Sørensen Vedel
Vicarius Provinciae
Re: Someone on the official forum is reporting that Testudo's have been fixed, AP values rectified
I did set up my Romans into a testudo and it actually looked better. I found myself actually using it when assaulting a castle walls (I normally never bother)... but not sure if just a placebo. More testing required.
Re: Someone on the official forum is reporting that Testudo's have been fixed, AP values rectified
Hmm, I definitely don't feel the ranged unit nerf in my campaigns. If I grab a couple slingers and target an armored enemy unit with them: the target gets wiped within seconds...
I read somewhere on the official forums that there is a bug affecting slingers. Their missiles bounce off the target's armor hitting other targets within the unit (multiple times). This is what causes the high casualties from slingers.
Re: Someone on the official forum is reporting that Testudo's have been fixed, AP values rectified
Very positive development if true! It should also help shieldwall and phalanx a tiny bit. Did any one check the shield screen formation to see if it actually improves defense against missiles now instead of just melee defense?
Re: Someone on the official forum is reporting that Testudo's have been fixed, AP values rectified
@Hikki
At what base? I can only speak about my personal experience in dozens of campaign and especially costum battles and Ranged Units never achieving a high amount of kills. You CAN exploit them in siege battles due to the stupid AI that doesn´t react to Projectile Attack. In such a case when ranged units have the chance to empty their whole ammunition, they can cause a lot of casulties, but in a normal field battle situation their use seem very limited to me.
Archers and Javelinman have to get buffed in my opinion in the regard of Armor Penetration and Damage, but drastically have to be reduced in their ammunition ( So Javelinbased Units have maybe 4 Throws and Archers a dozen at max., also Archers should have a WAY higher upkeep, supporting thousands of archers with arrows and bows constantly to train and execute should be more expensive than giving some Levys a Spear or a Club... All in all they should be, as Javelinmen and Peltasts, expensive Glass Cannons, using to cut holes in enemy army formations in the beginning of a battle.
Re: Someone on the official forum is reporting that Testudo's have been fixed, AP values rectified
They drop AP and increased normal damage. This should make them more effective against low armour units and less to high armour. Before this patch, they cause the same damage to everyone because base damage was to low and AP to high.
So this is not a nerf to range, but a boost to armour. This also makes stuff like flaming arrows (ie. +5 AP) more useful. What I am wondering is how good is whistle arrows, given the changes to moral.
Re: Someone on the official forum is reporting that Testudo's have been fixed, AP values rectified
They wanted to make ranged units more powerful so that they wouldn't feel completely useless in the one or two volleys they get off before the infantry closes. The downside, however is that it turns anything other than an immediate bum rush into rapid suicide for infantry units. In my opinion, the ideal compromise is that melee troops should be better able to weather the barrage of missiles at the cost of their mobility via testudo, shield screen, etc.
Re: Someone on the official forum is reporting that Testudo's have been fixed, AP values rectified
Yep but now Arrows are completely useless against armoured troops because of no AP right? Then it doesn´t matter if you have Testudo activated or not. And thats just dumb, Arrows penetrate Armor! There is a reason why Archery is maybe the greatest military technology besides Gunpowder... Even if Archery reached its peak of effectiveness in the middle age, they should be stronger than they are now in Rome 2.
Testudos should really make a unit move at an incredibly slow, snail's pace. Are there any historical references to them being used outside of sieges/assaults on cities or when Crassus' army was surrounded by Parthian horsearchers (and it didn't save them)? From what i can find from googling Livy is the main source for them in the Republican period and he also claims the Gauls used a testudo to assault the Roman capitol in 390 BC, which suggests he is using the term very loosely to mean any time a group of soldiers lock shields or hold their shields up to ward off missiles.
If they had been any use in battles there'd have been some mentions of it over the hundreds of years involved.
No evidence of arrows shot from bows being much good at penetrating armour in the period this game covers. Plenty of evidence that slings were. So why should they put medieval bows into an ancient game?
Last edited by Radzeer; October 04, 2013 at 05:18 PM.
Re: Someone on the official forum is reporting that Testudo's have been fixed, AP values rectified
I am looking at it from a game perceptive and not historic. Range should be like shogun 2, where it rips light armor units; but do very little against high armour. FYI, these changes should make range more effective against barbarians units and less to spartans. This wasn't the case in the past patches.
The real question is if light-medium armour units are useful or is elite spam still the only effective strategy. If 2 cheap light units can take 1 elite unit for less koko, then missiles are the counter. If not then missiles got nerf. I think we have to play the patch some more and see how the meta has changed. I have a feeling that elite spam is not going to be the best strategy anymore.
Re: Someone on the official forum is reporting that Testudo's have been fixed, AP values rectified
The entire German roster has exactly two units with more than 35 armor. Combine that with the fact that shieldwall only provides +15% armor and that shield screen still provides a whopping +0% bonus to armor yeah, ranged units still hurt quite a bit.
Civis
Re: Someone on the official forum is reporting that Testudo's have been fixed, AP values rectified
Curious HW ... I look forward to your results.
I remember a history program or something that basically reported that bows were useless against armor (as a side comment I had no ideas that slingers were so bloody effective!). Still, knowing this, my brain hurts so much when I think that archers can't really hurt armored opposition. DOES . NOT . COMPUTE.
Foederatus
Re: Someone on the official forum is reporting that Testudo's have been fixed, AP values rectified
My fault, my fault. I was speaking rumors about real life warfare when we're concerned that javelin and archer unit types are mostly useless now while slingers remain in style. Hope there is some proper balance fix for this, even if it might be more "historical" this way.
AlyssaFaden, I did hear a claim that was "tested" showing that linothorax is rather effective.
Re: Someone on the official forum is reporting that Testudo's have been fixed, AP values rectified
It's already fixed in STIM with altering the AP values. FFS CA should be working on stuff that modders can't change like fixing the Testudo formation itself.
Re: Someone on the official forum is reporting that Testudo's have been fixed, AP values rectified
Depends on what the issue with the formation itself is to begin with. The formation only has the units form up and form an overlapping of shields on top of their heads which is where the missiles will hit them. As others have pointed out, the issue was that after a few shots the missiles will break through and pretty much tear the unit to pieces. In this case CA went with reducing the AP damage and increasing their base damage. IMO missile units in this time period shouldn't be effective against heavy infantry. Missiles should be good against light units.
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