Pike Phalanx: Help Needed

[McCarronXLD]

Hey there, I'm having some issues with the Pike Phalanx. Firstly, my Phalanxes seem to get slaughtered even when they're attacked from the front. Secondly, if told to attack, they will fight with the enemy for awhile then push through the enemy and start walking around while they get stabbed in the back. Those two issues seem like a CA problem.. so here is a tactical question. What are your strategies and unit composition for a Pike Phalanx army?

[karamazovmm]

simple, I just click on the space behind the unit and let them walk

attacking also works

anyway basic army composition is:

8 decent pikes, doesn't need to be elite, if it is.. well good for you

4 flanking units, I mix swords and spears

4 ballista

4 cavalry, I go for heavy shock cavalry usually

thus the general is either a flanking unit, cavalry or pike

deployment is pikes in the middle, Im thinking of changing that and put them on the flanks, since the AI always attacks it more heavily. the mixed flanks, and 2 cavalry per flank, artie is behind

pikes are still the best units, specially the foot companions, they are the best infantry unit in the game, possibly even accounting catas and elephants

[Dude with the Food]

I usually keep a thin line of pikes in the centre ahead of the infantry line in a skirmisher. In the gap behind I leave any javelinmen because they don't have the range to get kills before the enemy forces them back. Melee infantry beside the peltasts and spear on the flanks. Slingers/archers in front of non-pikes with cavalry on the extreme flanks and either general or light melee infantry in reserve behind the peltasts. As long as you give the charge for the spears/melee, the pikes being further forward brings the line level in combat. Don't be scared of using them out of phalanx as offensive support as long as they avoid heavy melee to distract th enemy army from a big flank attack.

[karamazovmm]

a thin line? you know that the pike needs at least a 5 rank for it to not be completely pass through during a charge from another heavy unit, Im using 7 rows now as the minimum

[Elitewolf]

Pikes are the core of your army: They are your wall and your main killing tool. Everything that stands directly in front of it dies. The rest of your army needs to be geared around killing enemies which do not approach pikes or stopping flankers.

For this reason I usually use about 6 pikemen in deep formation as the centre of my battle line, flanked 2/4 hoplites in phalanx. 2/4 swordsmen stand in reserve. Aside from this you will also need skirmishers and melee or shock cavalry. Use the skirmishers to flank and shoot enemies in the back, use the hoplites to prevent the enemy from flanking/closing gaps (hoplites are very tough to kill when in phalanx) use the swordsmen to flank and charge enemies from behind and use cav to take out their skirmishers.

Also, don't dismiss ordinary hoplites: They are tough and versatile. They are ideal for bogging down enemy units. Last but not least, make sure that your pikemen always have their flanks secure.

[Slaists]

Yes, the rows... Unfortunately, the default RTW 2 unit size does not let one take full advantage of that (not risking condensing the line with too much). Good old RTW 1 mods, such as Europa Barbarum were setting pike unit size much larger (240 pike unit size versus 160 for swords). Here, in RTW 2, I often find myself overweighing my army in pikes (from the optimum well diversified army %) in order to be able to keep decent width while not condensing the line too much.

simple, I just click on the space behind the unit and let them walk

attacking also works

anyway basic army composition is:

8 decent pikes, doesn't need to be elite, if it is.. well good for you

4 flanking units, I mix swords and spears

4 ballista

4 cavalry, I go for heavy shock cavalry usually

thus the general is either a flanking unit, cavalry or pike

deployment is pikes in the middle, Im thinking of changing that and put them on the flanks, since the AI always attacks it more heavily. the mixed flanks, and 2 cavalry per flank, artie is behind

pikes are still the best units, specially the foot companions, they are the best infantry unit in the game, possibly even accounting catas and elephants

just curious: how do you use this army setup in city assaults? I find pikes to be quite ineffective in city assaults and very vulnerable to missiles. So, my armies usually have more hoplites (for assaults)

[karamazovmm]

Yes, the rows... Unfortunately, the default RTW 2 unit size does not let one take full advantage of that (not risking condensing the line with too much). Good old RTW 1 mods, such as Europa Barbarum were setting pike unit size much larger (240 pike unit size versus 160 for swords). Here, in RTW 2, I often find myself overweighing my army in pikes (from the optimum well diversified army %) in order to be able to keep decent width while not condensing the line too much.

well, they still do a good job, to make them larger would make them by far the best unit against all, the ai and player

just curious: how do you use this army setup in city assaults? I find pikes to be quite ineffective in city assaults and very vulnerable to missiles. So, my armies usually have more hoplites (for assaults)

for non walled, bombard from afar, usually just lose a few cavalry units, because thats what I use to hit where the enemy is weak with the flanking infantry leading the assault.

for walled sieges, depends

depends if Im going to play the walled siege and that is done given the lvl of the settlement, if its high, I will just group stacks and get by with fewer losses than playing, if its low and Im going to lose on auto resolve I will play it.

but basically the strategy is, destroy gates, enemy will pile up on that gate and that favours me a lot, I will simply just use the phalanx there and will simply walk through them. bombarding from afar the huge concentration of troops break their morale and thats all I need, I dont a high kill count I need them breaking for good or to give me respite of the tidal flow of enemy in that single point

this works because its pike based so all my pikes are there and Im funnelling the enemy towards the pointy end. Sometimes I will burn the gates of another part and send the 4 flanking units to attack the back of the mob ensuring faster routes.

[McCarronXLD]

Thanks for the advice! Something else I have been wondering is how you find use for Phalanxes when they get destroyed by the AI's missile heavy armies. Seems like I can never line up against the enemy's melee units because there is like 8 melee units and 12 skirmisher/missiles. Pikemen get destroyed before they can even get close!

[Naked Emperor]

Charge with your pikes and hit backspace right before contact, flank with your other melee. Destroy their skirmishers with your cavalry or skirmishers. You should have more melee/cavalry units so it shouldnt be a problem. Dont just walk your pikes slowly to the enemy, then your pikes will become pincushions.

If the enemy is fielding light infantry you dont even have to use the phalanx formation. You can charge them with your supporting infantry and flank with your phalangites. Usually I lose most of my men to skirmishers when using phalangites so its useful to either counterskirmish or destroy them ASAP with your cavalry and then charge the enemy line un the back

[stratigo]

is it just me or did the recent patch make them a lot dumber?

[Langer Kerl]

Pike phalanxes can be really effective but seem to suffer from several bugs. They tend to become unresponsive to orders in certain situations, turn in weird ways and, as you said, walk through enemies exposing their backs.

A trick I use sometimes for maximum killing power is putting Hoplites in Hoplite phalanx directly in front of my pikes so that the pikes reach well into the hoplite unit. The hoplites can take the enemy´s charge and the enemy will tire out while the hoplites dont suffer too many casualties due to their high defense value. Your pike formation in the second row stays in perfect order. Then, order the pikes to advance-walk using the up arrow key and make them just roll over the enemy. This is extremely deadly, but your line of battle will be pretty short if you do this. So make sure to not get flanked, ideally by placing your men in a choke point.

I tested this tactic against a 20-unit oathsworn army and won.

[stratigo]

Pike phalanxes can be really effective but seem to suffer from several bugs. They tend to become unresponsive to orders in certain situations, turn in weird ways and, as you said, walk through enemies exposing their backs.
.

I haven't had this problem until patch 4 I've noticed. My pikemen have started to do really stupid things like have two guys engaged on the side when they should be moving to flank, and then when I try to micro them to the flank they get stuck on those two guys.