Few questions about balancing unit stats

[Narakir]

For Darth, the things I always wanted to understand especialy now
- why non bi balance infantry units such as spearmen have shieldwall does it make something special ?
- why so high morale (22) for elephants compared to other units ? because of the small number ?
- why spear bonus for gladius ? (I know I asked this but can't find were it was...)
- what's realy important in the collision mass how do you use these values ?
- what's important in the formation spacing ? better resistance against/missile/cavalry charge ?

[DARTH VADER]

- why non bi balance infantry units such as spearmen have shieldwall does it make something special ?

sorry do not get the question...repeat.

- why so high morale (22) for elephants compared to other units ? because of the small number ?

Darthmod elephants are uniquely set in terms of stats/mass to be able to hold the line as tanks. They do not have amok ability bcs CA has bugged it and get it to soon with result of elephants to be used as single unleash rockets than strategic weapon to survive multiple battles.
So if I had given less morale you would see elephants coming back and forth, routing-rallying than get a single or two roots in the battle.(more realistic)

- why spear bonus for gladius ? (I know I asked this but can't find were it was...)

spear bonus gives extra defense, pushing and antimount ability. I remove only the antimount with careful minus offsets in extra mount abilities so as to create the historic extra defensive and penetrating legions.

- what's realy important in the collision mass how do you use these values ?

Collision mass is one of the most important aspects of DarthMod (as I know many mods copied these settings for their mods too)
It has certain principles to override the default almost to all value of 1 of CA to give certain battle character to each unit.
Skirmishers to be light, easy to penetrate and difficult to catch and also dangerous in isolating heavier forces since the light mass spreads their formation around the heavy more solid one.
Heavy units are difficult to penetrate and push and disrupt the lighter easily.
Cavalry creates havoc in the battlefield realistically.
Elephants to be a solid tank force than a taller unit (CA wrong adjust)

many...

I may write this in alchemist post one day

- what's important in the formation spacing ? better resistance against/missile/cavalry charge ?

Wider spacing has better chance to resist projectile fire and also better attack with wider enveloping form.
The more tight formation is creating better defense for the unit since cohesion or width makes more dense multiple interact per unit in defense and also in attack...but lack the enveloping attribute.
They have more penetration bonus and better resistance in flank attacks.

Generally the wide formations are very good in attack only while the more dense are multi-role balanced.
In my formations AI and more in DarthMod I command the AI to change width and spacing according to roles and circumstances.
My generic (non-DarthMod) formations do not have this extra force spacing AI role for combatibility issues with other mods.

[Narakir]

Thanks a lot Darth, for my first question is was just wondering about the shield wall formation in cases like here in a RTW unit which is unable to use it.

type warband sword briton
dictionary warband_sword_briton ; Swordsmen
category infantry
class heavy
voice_type Heavy_1
soldier warband_sword_briton, 45, 0, 0.3
officer barb_standard
mount_effect horse -1, chariot -1, camel -1
attributes sea_faring, hide_improved_forest, , power_charge, can_swim, warcry
formation 1.2, 1.2, 1.1, 1.0, 6, square, shield_wall
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 12, 5, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, blunt, sword, 0 ,0.73
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, no, no, none, 0 ,1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 6, 8, 6, leather
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 3
stat_ground 3, -2, 4, 2
stat_mental 15, impetuous, untrained
stat_charge_dist 150
stat_fire_delay 5000
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 460, 110, 50, 70, 460
ownership britons

[DARTH VADER]

They are hidden settings.
Cannot be used in 1.5 but only if you use BI.exe

I made a full moding for this in the past but dropped the idea...left the stats for exe combatibility and no CTDs.

[Narakir]

One more question :
5,3, javelin, 55, 2, thrown, archery, piercing, spear, 25, 1
What does this 25 before attack speed ?

About masses if I understand well the more it is the more the unit resist to charge right ?
Cavalry isn't counted so basicly
0.25 to 0.35 for archers/skirmishers
0.20 to 0.30 for light infantry
0.40 to 0.50 for heavy infantry
0.60 to 0.80 for roman infantry

[AlfonsoVIII]

IIRC it is the delay between attacks. It is described at the top of the file.

[Narakir]

IIRC it is the delay between attacks. It is described at the top of the file.

Ok thanks but what is the following number then ?

[DARTH VADER]

The following number is the fatality factor....It decides how much probability there is so that the hit will cause critical damage.
So if you have attack 10 and FF=0.6 you may have better chance than attack 20 and FF=0.3 (Not linear interaction)

[Narakir]

Ok I undestand, just have to all my balance based on attack speed now I confused with the critical factor I was planing to make some weapons attack faster than others, for exemple a men with two swords will attack a bit faster.

[DARTH VADER]

About masses if I understand well the more it is the more the unit resist to charge right ?
Cavalry isn't counted so basicly
0.25 to 0.35 for archers/skirmishers
0.20 to 0.30 for light infantry
0.40 to 0.50 for heavy infantry
0.60 to 0.80 for roman infantry

Yes around that it varies more but you get the point of median.

Mass is very crucial for the game.
CA left it default 1 in most cases.

The mass must also change in desc_mount.txt for balance

Mass is deciding charge effects, realistic impacts, realistic terrain troop distribution during combat, penetration, toss effects etc.

It changes the physics of the game.

[Narakir]

Thanks for all Darth
An other small questions because I don't like to keep things ambigous.
What is the real difference between thrown ap and ap ? . I've noticed too that legionaries "have thrown ap" before "ap" and skirmishers don't have thrown ap. Is it a superior penetration bonus ? or something related to the weapon thrown before charge mechanism ?

[DARTH VADER]

CA had "thrown ap" for precursors and just "ap" for javelineers.
I have noticed that a second "ap" gives more effect.

[Narakir]

After few test I've noticed that "thrown ap" gives a better bonus than "ap" good to know.