Alii Colores Romae: Totus - pack of different uniform colours now covering the Rise of the Republic scenario!!

[Demokritos]

Thanks for the explanation, KP.

I'm also quite keen to learn what we can do with the Assembly Kit. Never got it to work for Shogun 2, but I have more hope for Rome 2 due to my new comp. I expect to see full variety in the editor but then the limitation enforced on all ready-to-go modifications made by it, I'm afraid.

[Kurisu Paifuaa]

Nope, no limitation whatsoever in either the editor or in the output file. It's the same as editing manually... don't exceed 5 references per slot and simply use more parent slots to compensate.

I suppose that's good news. I made a suggestion in the mod summit prep thread to ask them directly what's up with the variation cut-off and what to expect down the road.

I'd suggest checking out the variant editor. It's a great visualization tool (even in beta state) and you can immediately set and see how different color masks appear on different model parts, select colors from a standard palette, etc. The lighting is pretty neutral (DX11 setting) and you can also run GEM alongside the editor with a switch to see how things appear for both vanilla or modified lighting conditions.

Most importantly, if you pull up a vanilla unit definition, you can once again see all of the (pre-patch 7) model variants by simply clicking through them in list fashion.

[Noif de Bodemloze]

Thanks for the explanation, KP.

I'm also quite keen to learn what we can do with the Assembly Kit. Never got it to work for Shogun 2, but I have more hope for Rome 2 due to my new comp. I expect to see full variety in the editor but then the limitation enforced on all ready-to-go modifications made by it, I'm afraid.

The Assembly kit is not special when I tested it and did not worked for me. When I made a custom unit on kit to make variantmeshdefinition file to my custom unit. It caused crash for me and one my friend made test on it and found it that the assembly kit will give wrong code for variantmeshdefinition that game itself cannot read it and cause crash for me. I decided to stay off from Kit and stay on PFM.

[Kurisu Paifuaa]

The Assembly kit is not special when I tested it and did not worked for me. When I made a custom unit on kit to make variantmeshdefinition file to my custom unit. It caused crash for me and one my friend made test on it and found it that the assembly kit will give wrong code for variantmeshdefinition that game itself cannot read it and cause crash for me. I decided to stay off from Kit and stay on PFM.

It's possible that you might be able to create an illegal definition... some structural or reference error that the editor allows to pass, but won't run. I didn't have any problems when I tested the whole workflow from variant editor -> Bob with several definition edits though. Not so far, anyway...

I did notice that it liberally substitutes "\" and "/" in various cases in reference paths in the output file, but doesn't cause any error. What do your output definition files look like? Anything obvious like bad syntax (closing tags, quotes, etc)?

[Kurisu Paifuaa]

News Flash...

Elite Persian Archers find their missing laundry stuck behind patch 9 beta...

[Demokritos]

Nope, no limitation whatsoever in either the editor or in the output file. It's the same as editing manually... don't exceed 5 references per slot and simply use more parent slots to compensate.

I suppose that's good news. I made a suggestion in the mod summit prep thread to ask them directly what's up with the variation cut-off and what to expect down the road.

I'd suggest checking out the variant editor. It's a great visualization tool (even in beta state) and you can immediately set and see how different color masks appear on different model parts, select colors from a standard palette, etc. The lighting is pretty neutral (DX11 setting) and you can also run GEM alongside the editor with a switch to see how things appear for both vanilla or modified lighting conditions.

Most importantly, if you pull up a vanilla unit definition, you can once again see all of the (pre-patch 7) model variants by simply clicking through them in list fashion.

Good to hear! Very useful tool now. Thanks for the knowledgeable report, Kurisu.

The Assembly kit is not special when I tested it and did not worked for me. When I made a custom unit on kit to make variantmeshdefinition file to my custom unit. It caused crash for me and one my friend made test on it and found it that the assembly kit will give wrong code for variantmeshdefinition that game itself cannot read it and cause crash for me. I decided to stay off from Kit and stay on PFM.

What - it did not work for you? Doesn't sound good for my own modification plans. But the kit is still beta, so maybe CA can fix it before proper release.

News Flash...

Elite Persian Archers find their missing laundry stuck behind patch 9 beta...

Not sure what your saying here, Kurisu. Haven't installed patch 9 beta yet since I want to continue modding for Centum Edition without a break. If I install it, I must wait for mods like All factions Mod to be updated to run with patch 9. So I don't know the effect of the patch regarding the unit variety issue. Sounds like the Archers are still missing their laundry (change of clothes) after the patch (even though they're shown with their change of clothes here). That true?


On an other note, not much left to do faction-wise for the next version of ACR2, which is a good step forward. But I want to squeeze some special units into the package as well. Otherwise there would have been a good chance for release this weekend.

[DramaBelli]

Extreme work for reskinners...glad to read your mod is not persecuted again!

[Kurisu Paifuaa]

Not sure what your saying here, Kurisu. Haven't installed patch 9 beta yet since I want to continue modding for Centum Edition without a break. If I install it, I must wait for mods like All factions Mod to be updated to run with patch 9. So I don't know the effect of the patch regarding the unit variety issue. Sounds like the Archers are still missing their laundry (change of clothes) after the patch (even though they're shown with their change of clothes here). That true?

.

Sorry... vague humor...I was in a rush when I posted . The persian tunic example was from your original post back in Dec regarding gimped unit variety.

The problem seems fixed in patch 9 beta. I haven't inspected the whole roster, but in the screenshot you can see all 3 tunic models as well as color mask alternates. The definition file has not been altered, so whatever condition was causing the limitation is gone. I presume this to be true in other cases... will give it a look when I get the chance later today.

Also came across this at CA's site, indicating that they were working on the problem (but forgot to give feedback): http://forums.totalwar.com/showthrea...=1#post1033264 . See Paolo's response in post #25.

Looks like we got the best possible outcome

[Demokritos]

Sorry... vague humor...I was in a rush when I posted . The persian tunic example was from your original post back in Dec regarding gimped unit variety.

The problem seems fixed in patch 9 beta. I haven't inspected the whole roster, but in the screenshot you can see all 3 tunic models as well as color mask alternates. The definition file has not been altered, so whatever condition was causing the limitation is gone. I presume this to be true in other cases... will give it a look when I get the chance later today.

Also came across this at CA's site, indicating that they were working on the problem (but forgot to give feedback): http://forums.totalwar.com/showthrea...=1#post1033264 . See Paolo's response in post #25.

Looks like we got the best possible outcome

If this is true I'd go hallelujah! Never believed CA would turn around on that score. Must see it with my own eyes in game before I fully believe they came to their senses, but if they did, then it goes to show how good it sometimes feels to be wrong!

If CA listened to their customers, my faith in them has pretty much turn around as well. After patch 7, I said to myself "From now on and at least one more installment of the TW series, no more supporting CA with my money". I made a similar decision after ETW, due to how poorly CA handled that game, and I still haven't purchased NTW because of it. But if patch 9 has solved the unit variety issue, I may return for the CIG DLC already. Yet be very careful not to pre-order the next TW game.


Finished all planned factions for the next update in the variety-reduced state. Will finish the special units for it in the same manner. But the work for the first complete edition, named ACR2 153d or something, that will commence after Centum, promises to be more fun.

[Kurisu Paifuaa]

Took a look at the Celts (which I've worked with extensively while reformatting the definitions) and I'm seeing all of their various trouser/cloak/hair alternates which were absent previously. Same for Iberians and others.

It's likely that this whole episode was just a side effect or oversight on the way to performance optimizations across multiple patches... which are evident in beta 9. I take Paolo's statement in the thread I linked at face value... CA are a busy crew, I'm sure. But without any feedback, it was reasonable to suspect this was another case of an ill conceived design change... sort of like the hideous lighting and materials changes from FotS that ruined the look of the base S2 game for months.

Reworking the definitions provided an excellent crash course in variant editing and I'm having a good time with the editor as a result of the understanding gained by working with the text files. So I can't complain too much What I would like to see in the future is more of an admission that what we're getting from the time of release is paid access to an open beta. Presenting it that way would be a better tactic by the developer if they're going to continue with the same, rigid release schedule. If you call a release "early access" from the beginning, there's a lot less justification for public backlash at bugs, inconsistencies between patches, half-baked game mechanics etc. As someone who enjoys modding, I can take it in stride as I have something to hold my interest in the product throughout it's development. But I understand the flood of complaints from players both here and elsewhere.

[Demokritos]

Took a look at the Celts (which I've worked with extensively while reformatting the definitions) and I'm seeing all of their various trouser/cloak/hair alternates which were absent previously. Same for Iberians and others.

It's likely that this whole episode was just a side effect or oversight on the way to performance optimizations across multiple patches... which are evident in beta 9. I take Paolo's statement in the thread I linked at face value... CA are a busy crew, I'm sure. But without any feedback, it was reasonable to suspect this was another case of an ill conceived design change... sort of like the hideous lighting and materials changes from FotS that ruined the look of the base S2 game for months.

Reworking the definitions provided an excellent crash course in variant editing and I'm having a good time with the editor as a result of the understanding gained by working with the text files. So I can't complain too much What I would like to see in the future is more of an admission that what we're getting from the time of release is paid access to an open beta. Presenting it that way would be a better tactic by the developer if they're going to continue with the same, rigid release schedule. If you call a release "early access" from the beginning, there's a lot less justification for public backlash at bugs, inconsistencies between patches, half-baked game mechanics etc. As someone who enjoys modding, I can take it in stride as I have something to hold my interest in the product throughout it's development. But I understand the flood of complaints from players both here and elsewhere.

I fully agree about your suggested tactic with paid open betas for CA in the future. Would save them a lot of criticism and give them an air of honesty as well. They'll need it after R2.

I'm very happy to see full colour variety back on the units with patch 9 beta. I was so close to abandon the whole project for that issue and some other reasons, and it was not without tension that I continued modding after a while. So now I feel a bit relieved. Thanks for your support on the subject, Kurisu. I appreciate it.

You may now like the below...


Garamantian chariot raiders with gimped unit variety from patch 7

New version available. Check OP for details.

Just a couple of notes here. With patch 9 beta restoring full colour variety on the units, the African nations are no longer in need of a quick remedy for greater interest. So I've postponed the work on special units for many of them until it's time to give all factions that treatment. Not having seen the effect of full colour variety on the great majority of factions and units made after patch 7, I also expect many of them to be in need of adjustment. One example is the Ptolemaic Egyptian Infantry. Their secondary light blue looked great on the dark-shaded shields, but it turned overly bright when appearing on the tunics as well. Made a quick fix for that before releasing Centum, but I'll have to work a little more on that later. Most uniform themes are bound to change in one way or other before this project is completed.

[le_fred]

Hurray the detailed colors are back

[Frei]

Thanks for the update, it's looking real good. It's getting tiresome finding someone who keeps their recolor mod updated so I'm glad you do.

edit: this isn't compatible with Caesar in Gaul (causes uniforms to be pink). what a shame.

[Noif de Bodemloze]

I am going "the mind battle" in my head about 4 factions: Seleucid, Macedon(antigonid), Pergamon and Ptolemaic Egypt Looking different is very minimal and this trio look very same in the battlefield. That why I have spent time with history about these new kingdoms after Alexander of Great died and his generals put his empire to pieces.

Like my idea about these faction is:

Macedon: Sand yellow-purple-red (and maybe black)
Egypt: Red-light green-light blue
Seleucid Grey-purple-red
Pergamon: (still open)

In my Rome emblem section, I made my version about Macedon:


uniform color would be sand yellow - purple - red (Took some demonstrate from Alexander the great -movie and document films)

[Demokritos]

Hurray the detailed colors are back

Yes, it's a relief. Finally the units look rather interesting again.

Thanks for the update, it's looking real good. It's getting tiresome finding someone who keeps their recolor mod updated so I'm glad you do.

edit: this isn't compatible with Caesar in Gaul (causes uniforms to be pink). what a shame.

I don't have the CIG DLC so haven't modded for it. I refused to buy it as a protest against CA's handling of the unit variety issue. But now that they've turned around on that score, I'm considering to buy it, after all. If I do, I'll certainly feel obliged to give the CIG the usual Alternative treatment. Chances are pretty high that this will happen.

I am going "the mind battle" in my head about 4 factions: Seleucid, Macedon(antigonid), Pergamon and Ptolemaic Egypt Looking different is very minimal and this trio look very same in the battlefield. That why I have spent time with history about these new kingdoms after Alexander of Great died and his generals put his empire to pieces.

Like my idea about these faction is:

Macedon: Sand yellow-purple-red (and maybe black)
Egypt: Red-light green-light blue
Seleucid Grey-purple-red
Pergamon: (still open)

In my Rome emblem section, I made my version about Macedon:


uniform color would be sand yellow - purple - red (Took some demonstrate from Alexander the great -movie and document films)

Well, I like the purple on the Macedonian flag a lot, Noif, so good work from an aesthetical point of view. I'm sure your other suggestions could be made to look good as well.

But my mod doesn't look the way it does because of poor imagination. It tries to stay as close to history as possible. And my current sources tell me that the Macedonians, Seleucids, and Ptolemaics should look very similar. If anything, more similar than they do in ACR2. But that would be so boring as to defeat the purpose of the game as something fun. So I've given myself a little artistic freedom, but not straying too far from history. Using purple on common soldiers would be straying too far from history in my book. Because the dye to produce that colour was very expensive at the time and only the richest and most influential people could afford ít or even be allowed to use it, as fitting their high status in the society. So purple should be very rare on the units. I'm reserving it for elite units and high officers. This make them stand out as very special, too.

If you want to persuade me to change a given uniform theme in the current version of ACR2, you need to show me the historical basis for it. I'm sure I'll find reason to change the Successor states a little when the time comes to deal with them in a more final manner, but so far, I have no strong argument for something radically different. For Pergamon, however, I have not found any historical sources how they looked like, so there's more room for experimentation there. In my first version of them, I went for the quick solution and just used CA's idea in more realistic shades, that's all. That makes the theme go rather well with the vanilla flag on the campaign map, at least.

[Aguirre]

A real feast for the eyes!

[Noif de Bodemloze]

I found this page, where thousand pictures about military from different era (ancient, medieval, shogun, etc), even ancient rome and greek era. You need roll down until you will see these ancient rome/greek pictures. Hopefully this can help you to discover more colors for other factions, what you have not worked. Take your time because these pictures will not end quickly.

http://thelosttreasurechest.wordpress.com/

[Demokritos]

A real feast for the eyes!

Happy to hear you liked something in ACR2. Goes to show even low-key colours can be "colourful".

BTW, Aguirre, I've seen your thread for Pergamon. Outstanding work there. I was just wondering if you, who have better knowledge of everything Pergamonian than me, managed to dig up something indicating how the warriors of that state looked like colour-wise that you could share?

I found this page, where thousand pictures about military from different era (ancient, medieval, shogun, etc), even ancient rome and greek era. You need roll down until you will see these ancient rome/greek pictures. Hopefully this can help you to discover more colors for other factions, what you have not worked. Take your time because these pictures will not end quickly.

http://thelosttreasurechest.wordpress.com/

That site may be the best source for historical images I've seen. I may have collected a few hundred images myself, but there's plenty more in that place. Thanks a lot for that link, Noif. Will see what I can use for old or new factions there.

As an example of the historical situation that causes an artistic dilemma for a mod like this which caters to realism, I'd like to show a close-up of an illustration of the Battle of Raphia between the Ptolemaics and the Seleucids. The painter, Igor Dzis, is likely to have researched a great deal or been provided a lot of data by some expert in order to be able to paint with such detail. Study the soldiers in the towers on the back of the elephants. The parties look almost identical.



Many other illustrations show the same likeness. Red was their primary colour. Which is only natural since both parties inherited the Macedonian culture. That's why they look very similar in ACR2, too. But from an image like this I may get the idea that the Seleucids could be portrayed in a red hue drawing towards pink (although this should perhaps be reserved for officers) while the Ptolemaics could have a red hue with a hint of orange. Both using white as secondary colours but differing more in tertiary colours: based on this pic alone, the Seleucids could have something like the brownish orange of the hooded elephant drivers and the Ptolemaics the greenish blue of their driver here. Against the latter idea I have other images showing Ptolemaic officers often wearing yellow cloaks, and giving them yellow as tertiary colour for the main theme will make their general figures on the campaign map appear in yellow cloaks. Etc, etc.


PS. Next issue of ACR2 will ce called the Totus Edition.

[Yerevan]

Hurray the detailed colors are back

Yes that is good news. I'm happy for you Demokritos. And it means I'll be able to enjoy your work as soon as I'm ready to play R2 again.

[Demokritos]

Yes that is good news. I'm happy for you Demokritos. And it means I'll be able to enjoy your work as soon as I'm ready to play R2 again.

No need to rush for R2, Yerevan. CA still have a number of issues to solve before they come close to the standard of S2. They did very good in the last patch for the unit variety problem, but added a new graphical oddity in some bushes and trees not being recognizable as such on the battlefield, for example (no screen-shooting campaign with those things in sight). Five months after release and they still have to work hard on improvements. But the good thing about that may be that ACR2 is ready with all factions in the game by the time CA have fixed the mechanics properly. Would be a pity to be tired of the game before that happens.

The chance of CA never really succeeding to patch R2 properly has me planning to finish all factions in the game but then wait with the variety project until the game is proven good at last.